Why don't atheists change faiths very often?

[Underhill]

GOD is outside of the observable Universe, and the next one which we have not discovered yet, and the next etc etc, in fact HE is outside all 7 of them. As such HE is not constrained by the rules of the universe. Rules like everything must have a beginning, something complex must be designed etc.

ibn ‘Amr said: Allaah created the water above the seven heavens, and He created the Throne above the water.”

ibn Mas’ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “Between the lowest heaven and the one above it is (a distance of) five hundred years, and between each heaven and the next is (a distance of) five hundred years marching.” According to another report: “The thickness of each heaven is a distance of five hundred years marching. Between the seventh heaven and the Footstool (al-Kursiy) is (a distance of) five hundred years. Between the Footstool and the water is (a distance of) five hundred years. The Throne is above the water and Allaah is above the Throne, and none of your deeds are concealed from Him.”

We are waiting for Science to catch up. Creation has been scattered through out the Cosmos:


"And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered through them: and He has power to gather them together when He wills" Qur'an 42:29

The fact that you're rationalising and asking questions is a good sign. God hates people who do not think.

Truly, the worst of all creatures in the sight of Allah are the deaf, the dumb, those who do not use reason. Qur'an 8:22

Do they not contemplate within themselves? Allah has not created the heavens and the earth and what is between them except in truth and for a specified term. And indeed, many of the people, in [the matter of] the meeting with their Lord, are disbelievers. Qur’an 30:8

As the bereft people are cast into it the angels will say, “Didn’t a warner come to you?”

It almost bursts up with fury. Every time a group is cast therein, its keeper will ask: “Did no warner come to you?” They will say: “Yes, indeed a warner did come to us, but we belied him and said: ‘Allah never sent down anything (of revelation); you are only in great error.’“ And they will say: “Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we would not have been among the dwellers of the blazing Fire!” Qur'an 67:8-10

Yep, that is what the book says.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Dogs have several Christian colleges and universities including Notre Dane University, Wheaten College, Tailer, Yorkie College, and Indiana Westiean University.

Well, yes. But it's only honorary. Dogs are much to wise to stoop to faith in things for which there are no snacks.

 

[1robin]

No, it isn't.

Which "god"are you worshipping?

You do not get it, Atheism is the worldview than contains no God's which to worship.

I do not share that world view, the theistic world view. My worldviews has enough room for many God's but I find the evidence for the God of Christianity so strong to compared to all others combined, and since I met him (spiritually) I worship him Yahweh. However the choices made by believers was never the subject of the debate.

 

[Muslim-UK]

You do not get it, Atheism is the worldview than contains no God's which to worship.

I do not share that world view, the theistic world view. My worldviews has enough room for many God's but I find the evidence for the God of Christianity so strong to compared to all others combined, and since I met him (spiritually) I worship him Yahweh. However the choices made by believers was never the subject of the debate.

Most Atheists on here are former Christians who find the concept of God in the NT bizarre.

But if it makes you happy, carry on.

 

[Ricktheheretic]

Probably agnostic atheism, but I think the distinction is a bit silly. Technically I'm agnostic about the existence of aliens visiting our planet but you don't hear me, or anyone else, brag about it. I just write the notion off as nonsense until I see evidence to the contrary. It doesn't mean I am open to the idea.

I see the existence of a god like being possible, as almost anything is possible in a virtually infinite universe. But I find it supremely unlikely that this being is hanging around earth handing out merit badges.

I am agnostic but I tend to rethink god as being the ultimate cause or something like the life-force or cosmic consciousness.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

This isn't the philosophy forum, but I want to dip a toe into philosophy anyway. I would say that the only people who could truly claim to have no faith at all are strict moral relativists (SMRs). Being an SMR is mostly independent of being an atheist, although I'm sure that there are some atheists who are also SMRs.

I'm an atheist who is NOT a SMR and I have to admit that I have "faith" in things like universal human rights. That said, I think most people are not being so pedantic when they use the word "faith", and it's most commonly associated with some belief in the supernatural.

I tend to think all atheists hold faith in multiple things, but atheism isn't one of them.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I tend to think all atheists hold faith in multiple things, but atheism isn't one of them.

If by faith you mean justified belief, as in "I have faith that my car will start in the morning like it has the last 200 times I've tried to start it," then I agree. Every atheist just like every theist will have many justified beliefs. The evidence of the past doesn't guarantee the future, but it is justification for the expectation that the car will start again.

However, if you are including what religious people do, which is to believe without adequate evidence, or even in the face of contradictory evidence, then I'd disagree. Many people consider that a flawed way of thinking. We all admitted many such idea before we learned to think critically, and many eventually stopped doing that. They also had to go back and review what they believed, and be sure that only those ideas that were justified remained believed.

This is not to say that one might not still have erroneous beliefs after such a process, one leading to what can call an examined life, but if he does, it is because the evidence he used to arrive at such beliefs was skewed or misunderstood, not because there was no evidence, which as I've explained is what I generally mean by believing by faith.

Incidentally, when I said what religious people do, that was not meant to mean that only religious people do it. Lately, we have seen this type of thinking applied to political candidates - unjustified belief even in the face of large amounts of contradictory evidence. And we are very used to it from the climate deniers. Both of these positions are available to atheists.

What do you think? Is this consistent with what you meant?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

GOD is outside of the observable Universe, and the next one which we have not discovered yet, and the next etc etc, in fact HE is outside all 7 of them.

So God is not inside the universe?

As such HE is not constrained by the rules of the universe. Rules like everything must have a beginning, something complex must be designed etc.

So God is unfalsifiable?

 

[Desert Snake]

Islam deity might be completely removed. Im not even sure the intent wasnt just the angel talking to muhemet in the cave

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You do not get it, Atheism is the worldview than contains no God's which to worship.

There are infinitely many possible worldviews that contain no gods, not just one. This is why atheism isn't a worldview in and of itself. It's actually an umbrella term for many worldviews that just happen to have one point in common (i.e. that they don't include any gods).

 

[Muslim-UK]

So God is not inside the universe?

So God is unfalsifiable?

Yes to both questions. You may ask your friends and family to bury scientific equipment with you, to use when you stand before Him, though I'm sure it will be the last thing on your mind.

 

[YmirGF]

Most Atheists on here are former Christians who find the concept of God in the NT bizarre.

But if it makes you happy, carry on.

And many of us are not. Then there are former Muslims who are now atheists. Jus' sayin'...

 

[Muslim-UK]

Islam deity might be completely removed. Im not even sure the intent wasnt just the angel talking to muhemet in the cave

God is also closer to you than your jugular vein.

And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than [his] jugular vein. Qur'an 50:16

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes to both questions.

Your "yes" to the first question implies that Islam is necessarily false.

Your "yes" to the second question implies that God's existence is indistinguishable from his non-existence... IOW, it implies that God has no measurable effect on anything we can observe.

You may ask your friends and family to bury scientific equipment with you, to use when you stand before Him, though I'm sure it will be the last thing on your mind.

Do you find that empty threats are a good tactic for convincing people of your religion? This one isn't working on me.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If by faith you mean justified belief, as in "I have faith that my car will start in the morning like it has the last 200 times I've tried to start it," then I agree. Every atheist just like every theist will have many justified beliefs. The evidence of the past doesn't guarantee the future, but it is justification for the expectation that the car will start again.

However, if you are including what religious people do, which is to believe without adequate evidence, or even in the face of contradictory evidence, then I'd disagree. Many people consider that a flawed way of thinking. We all admitted many such idea before we learned to think critically, and many eventually stopped doing that. They also had to go back and review what they believed, and be sure that only those ideas that were justified remained believed.

This is not to say that one might not still have erroneous beliefs after such a process, one leading to what can call an examined life, but if he does, it is because the evidence he used to arrive at such beliefs was skewed or misunderstood, not because there was no evidence, which as I've explained is what I generally mean by believing by faith.

Incidentally, when I said what religious people do, that was not meant to mean that only religious people do it. Lately, we have seen this type of thinking applied to political candidates - unjustified belief even in the face of large amounts of contradictory evidence. And we are very used to it from the climate deniers. Both of these positions are available to atheists.

What do you think? Is this consistent with what you meant?

I think all people tend to have unjustified beliefs in some measure, whether it's in the veracity of political polls, the likelihood of attracting a certain member of the opposite/same sex, or in their ability to shoot a match winning three pointer.

I find the conflation of atheism with rational behaviour fairly unsupportable. Not suggesting you're doing this, just something I see. On a strictly atheist/theist paradigm, I see atheism as the rational position. But one swallow doesn't make a summer.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Your "yes" to the first question implies that Islam is necessarily false.

Your "yes" to the second question implies that God's existence is indistinguishable from his non-existence... IOW, it implies that God has no measurable effect on anything we can observe.

How does God being outside of the 7 Heavens prove Islam to be false?

If you look at the origins of the Universe, the fine tuning, how life forms, complexity and diversity, the fact you have the ability to use reason and logic, ALL of this is observable and shows a Designer, Creator, all knowing Super Being is ultimately responsible for all that we see.

 

[LuisDantas]

Most Atheists on here are former Christians who find the concept of God in the NT bizarre.

That is probably barely true, but only because it happens that so many people are Christians.

Atheism is a very natural and healthy occurrence (if you can even call it an occurrence), and would not even have the need for a name if there was not so much emphasis on belief in deities in Christianity and Islaam.

 

[LuisDantas]

How does God being outside of the 7 Heavens prove Islam to be false?

The question was not that, but rather whether God is inside the universe.

If you look at the origins of the Universe, the fine tuning, how life forms, complexity and diversity, the fact you have the ability to use reason and logic, ALL of this is observable and shows a Designer, Creator, all knowing Super Being is ultimately responsible for all that we see.

That is just an unsupported claim. Actually, it is a statement of aesthetical preference.

Fair enough for what it is. But what it is is not an argument, or even a fully formed claim.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How does God being outside of the 7 Heavens prove Islam to be false?

Because Islam claims to be a revealed religion. How exactly would God reveal his religion to the people inside a universe if he never enters it himself?

If you look at the origins of the Universe, the fine tuning, how life forms, complexity and diversity, the fact you have the ability to use reason and logic, ALL of this is observable and shows a Designer, Creator, all knowing Super Being is ultimately responsible for all that we see.

No, it really doesn't show that.

... But if you really believe this, then you should be able to come up with some falsifiable tests for your god. There should be something where you could say "I know ____ was caused by God, so if we investigate and find some other cause, then we'll know that God (or at least God as I envision him) doesn't exist." Can you fill in that blank?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Anyone who doesn't believe in any gods is an atheist. Any other definition ends up descending into ridiculousness quickly and doesn't reflect how the term is actually used.

My issue with that position is newborn infants do not even have a sense of self awareness. If one is literally not aware of the existence of themselves, or the permanence of objects outside of their vision, how can it fairly be said they are either atheist or theist or agnostic or anything other than a human who has yet to have their "operating system fully activated?"