Why fear and what's bad about psychic phenomena

[Angel1]

Psychic phenomena and mediumship takes on many different forms – speaking in tongues, spirit communications by Spiritualists and Spiritists, fortune telling and the use of crystals or Ouija boards, life readings by Edgar Cayce, prophecies by Nostradamus, premonitions, prophetic dreams, telepathy, clairvoyance, astral projection and faith healing or psychic surgery.

It is everywhere in the bible. It was practiced by all the prophets and holy men from Abraham to Jesus (http://goo.gl/s4x08A). It happened before and it continues to happen to ordinary people of every race and creed, every day, everywhere.

Joel 2:28
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Acts 2:28
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

If Christ, himself, tells us that we will do all those things, ourselves, why do Christians, who profess him to be their God, hesitate in fear?

What is there to be afraid of? Why do many religious brand it demonic? Why are we warned to keep away? What dangers lurk and how can we safeguard ourselves from harm?

For so long as we are ignorant of the underlying principles, we will remain in the dark. But as we open ourselves to the reality and pursue its study, the fear will dissipate and the knowledge we acquire can liberate and empower us.

What are your thoughts regarding this occult subject?

 

[George-ananda]

What are your thoughts regarding this occult subject?

I think it can be good and bad. Some people with gifted abilities can use these in a right way to benefit people. However the average person messing around on their own with let's say a Ouija board can invite malevolent entities into their lives.

I think occult phenomena does show us that there is more to life than what we see on the surface and this can be a springboard for people to take good spirituality seriously. Modern science tends to want us to think of everything as physical and so consciousness ends at death. I am now sure from my studies of the paranormal that this is not true.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Psychic phenomena and mediumship takes on many different forms – speaking in tongues, spirit communications by Spiritualists and Spiritists, fortune telling and the use of crystals or Ouija boards, life readings by Edgar Cayce, prophecies by Nostradamus, premonitions, prophetic dreams, telepathy, clairvoyance, astral projection and faith healing or psychic surgery.

It is everywhere in the bible. It was practiced by all the prophets and holy men from Abraham to Jesus (http://goo.gl/s4x08A). It happened before and it continues to happen to ordinary people of every race and creed, every day, everywhere.

Joel 2:28
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Acts 2:28
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

If Christ, himself, tells us that we will do all those things, ourselves, why do Christians, who profess him to be their God, hesitate in fear?

What is there to be afraid of? Why do many religious brand it demonic? Why are we warned to keep away? What dangers lurk and how can we safeguard ourselves from harm?

For so long as we are ignorant of the underlying principles, we will remain in the dark. But as we open ourselves to the reality and pursue its study, the fear will dissipate and the knowledge we acquire can liberate and empower us.

What are your thoughts regarding this occult subject?

Any prophecy, spiritualism, mediumship, etc in which the source of such does not come from God (as in poured spirit onto the person as in your verses), is deemed a sin. It is getting "powers", I guess, from an outside soure. Everything comes from God.

I don't know why people fear it though. Maybe they feel just because it doesn't come from God it comes from the devil. If I were in their position, if it doesn't come from God, I'd say it's fake.

However, I do practice a lot of that stuff; so, it's real to me. That's what I understand about it.

 

[picnic]

Believing in these types of things can inhibit a person. When I used to believe in Christianity, I was constantly looking for signals from God to help me make decisions. That can make life stressful. I feel much better now that I scoff at these things. (However there were a few incidents that are harder for me to dismiss.)

 

[Quintessence]

There was a really good essay I read about this once. I managed to find it again. I suggest reading the full article here if you're interested in the topic, but I'll put the most important bit below:

"Throughout history, political types have been fanatically and proudly hypocritical. Just as we see today: when someone wants a right or freedom removed, they only want it removed from you, not from themselves.

...​

The prophets who wrote the Bible were no different. They were political types, and their writings were politically motivated. At the time, there really was no separation between “Church and State”—and the writings we see in the Bible were more about political power than spirituality. A large part of their political power rested in their ability to perform the role of Shaman for the king and his people.

And they didn’t like competition.

Therefore, much space in the Bible is wasted on rants against the evils of sorcery, necromancy, and divination—even though the same authors were performing all of it themselves. It was ok for them to do, you see, but it was not ok for you—at least unless you joined their group and got their stamp of political approval."​

The only other thing I'll add is that this attitude is not characteristic of "religion" it is specifically characteristic of exclusivist monotheisms in Western culture (aka, certain branches of Christianity and Islam). All sorts of magic are old hat in other religions of the world, particularly all of the indigenous religious traditions that all seem to have some sort of person in a shamanic-type role.

 

[rusra02]

I believe occult practices bring one into contact with wicked spirits, angels who rebelled against God. (Acts 16:16) Seeking the company of God's enemies is most unwise, similar to seeking out the company of criminals and closely associating with them. Thus the Bible's strong warning against "anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah." (Deuteronomy 18:10-12)
In contrast, the men and women in the Bible who prophesied did so under the direction of God and his holy spirit.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I have no issues with people with gifts. Got my own. As for things like Ouija, I don't like to put too much stock in something from Parker Brothers.

 

[Angel1]

I think it can be good and bad. Some people with gifted abilities can use these in a right way to benefit people. However the average person messing around on their own with let's say a Ouija board can invite malevolent entities into their lives.

I think occult phenomena does show us that there is more to life than what we see on the surface and this can be a springboard for people to take good spirituality seriously. Modern science tends to want us to think of everything as physical and so consciousness ends at death. I am now sure from my studies of the paranormal that this is not true.

In the Spirit reality, except for our having been endowed with eternal life and our inherent properties and capabilities, there are no free gifts. Everything else must be merited. It takes many lifetimes to become proficient but whatever we learn and what spiritual faculties we develop now, should we decide to do so, will never be lost. They will be accessible to us in our future incarnations.

In every human endeavor, there will be risks and dangers. No more and no less than those dangers little children face when learning to cross the street. Provided we arm ourselves with good intentions and for as long as we use whatever abilities we acquire for the good of others, God will protect us from all possible harm.

Why develop, you may ask. Have you ever wondered what if Jesus did not demonstrate his “powers.” Would he have been believed as much? And yes, it is precisely because of the information gleaned from these occurrences that we are able to learn of the Real World, the World of Spirit and Higher Heavens.

 

[Angel1]

Any prophecy, spiritualism, mediumship, etc in which the source of such does not come from God (as in poured spirit onto the person as in your verses), is deemed a sin. It is getting "powers", I guess, from an outside soure. Everything comes from God.

I don't know why people fear it though. Maybe they feel just because it doesn't come from God it comes from the devil. If I were in their position, if it doesn't come from God, I'd say it's fake.

However, I do practice a lot of that stuff; so, it's real to me. That's what I understand about it.

How do we determine if something comes from God or doesn’t? Christ provides a simple rule. You will know them by the works that they do. First though, we have to enter into a trial communication to have a basis for our evaluation. We shouldn’t take anyone’s word for it. We must decide for ourselves. As I mentioned, if our hearts are right and our intentions are pure, directed towards helping others, then God’s Holy Spirits will protect us.

There are all kinds of spirits, good and bad. We attract to ourselves spirits of our same kind. So a “bad” person should beware when delving into these activities. But a good person might even merit the attention of Jesus and other higher beings.

Perfect love casts out fear.

 

[Angel1]

Believing in these types of things can inhibit a person. When I used to believe in Christianity, I was constantly looking for signals from God to help me make decisions. That can make life stressful. I feel much better now that I scoff at these things. (However there were a few incidents that are harder for me to dismiss.)

Fear, confusion and stresses are mostly felt in the early goings. Communications with other-worldly beings follow the very same principles that apply when we associate or communicate with people here on earth. No harm in listening. But analyze, test and question everything. If the communication should cause you to have some reservations, suspicions or fear, then quickly disengage.

The potential benefits far outweigh the risks. You only need to remind yourself that all the prophets and saints engaged in it. And even Jesus demonstrated many of the possibilities. But don’t even begin unless first, you have resolved all your doubts and apprehensions. Only when you feel that you are ready.

Once you commit to deeper studies, you will find to your surprise that much of what you know now or what have been taught you since birth are not all they are touted to be. Superstitions and false teachings abound. Of them, we must secure total freedom before we can make any substantial advances in our spiritual development.

 

[viole]

In every human endeavor, there will be risks and dangers. No more and no less than those dangers little children face when learning to cross the street. Provided we arm ourselves with good intentions and for as long as we use whatever abilities we acquire for the good of others, God will protect us from all possible harm.

Say that to a mother whose son or daughter has been killed by a huge truck. Or by a cancer.

Why develop, you may ask. Have you ever wondered what if Jesus did not demonstrate his “powers.” Would he have been believed as much? And yes, it is precisely because of the information gleaned from these occurrences that we are able to learn of the Real World, the World of Spirit and Higher Heavens.

Jesus did not good a good job to convince his disciples, I think. If he did, it is not clear why they were all so skeptical about the very first reports of His resurrection.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Angel1]

There was a really good essay I read about this once. I managed to find it again. I suggest reading the full article here if you're interested in the topic, but I'll put the most important bit below:

"Throughout history, political types have been fanatically and proudly hypocritical. Just as we see today: when someone wants a right or freedom removed, they only want it removed from you, not from themselves.

...​

The prophets who wrote the Bible were no different. They were political types, and their writings were politically motivated. At the time, there really was no separation between “Church and State”—and the writings we see in the Bible were more about political power than spirituality. A large part of their political power rested in their ability to perform the role of Shaman for the king and his people.

And they didn’t like competition.

Therefore, much space in the Bible is wasted on rants against the evils of sorcery, necromancy, and divination—even though the same authors were performing all of it themselves. It was ok for them to do, you see, but it was not ok for you—at least unless you joined their group and got their stamp of political approval."​

The only other thing I'll add is that this attitude is not characteristic of "religion" it is specifically characteristic of exclusivist monotheisms in Western culture (aka, certain branches of Christianity and Islam). All sorts of magic are old hat in other religions of the world, particularly all of the indigenous religious traditions that all seem to have some sort of person in a shamanic-type role.

The observations expressed in the linked article are valid and perceptive. So now aware of the underlying ulterior motives behind the injunctions, we should be able to get over the objections and begin to freely explore all the possibilities toward accumulating the knowledge and availing of the opportunities to be of service to those in need.

Spirit survives. The Spirit Worlds are real. Psychic phenomena are the windows from where we can see through to them and access all the information we will require to prepare for our own transition into those worlds when our body ceases to function.

Sadly though, powerful governments initiate their studies, not primarily to obtain divine knowledge, but with a view to acquire a military advantage over their perceived enemies. Still, Parapsychology Departments now lead the charge in some of our leading institutions of learning. Although the science is still very young, there will be greater progress in time.

We should learn from this prohibition and dire warnings from acknowledged authorities that don’t really know what they are talking about or those that have a little knowledge but choose to keep others ignorant and exploited for their own vested interests.

Always, we must learn to think for ourselves. And we should similarly apply the same rule in regard to all that is contained in the Bible.

 

[Angel1]

I believe occult practices bring one into contact with wicked spirits, angels who rebelled against God. (Acts 16:16) Seeking the company of God's enemies is most unwise, similar to seeking out the company of criminals and closely associating with them. Thus the Bible's strong warning against "anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah." (Deuteronomy 18:10-12)
In contrast, the men and women in the Bible who prophesied did so under the direction of God and his holy spirit.

Those who are still young and inexperienced, weak in the faith, fearful and gullible should stay away. But those who are confident in their Light should light the way for others. Jesus associated with the prostitutes and tax collectors, more than with the powerful and rich elite, even the religious but hypocritical Pharisees and scribes. His followers should do the same.

 

[Angel1]

I have no issues with people with gifts. Got my own. As for things like Ouija, I don't like to put too much stock in something from Parker Brothers.

Just to repeat my earlier post – psychic abilities or ESP or mediumship are developed abilities. They are not gifts, nor are they freely given. Their possession carries a heavy responsibility – they are to be used for God’s purposes in the service of our fellowmen. To ignore this rule or abuse our use of them will result in heavy penalties and cause more harm than benefit to the practitioner.

The use of Ouija boards, speaking in tongues and/or automatic writing are the elementary stages of psychic development. From there, we go on to more advanced forms of communication – clairvoyance, telepathy and astral projection.

 

[George-ananda]

In the Spirit reality, except for our having been endowed with eternal life and our inherent properties and capabilities, there are no free gifts. Everything else must be merited. It takes many lifetimes to become proficient but whatever we learn and what spiritual faculties we develop now, should we decide to do so, will never be lost. They will be accessible to us in our future incarnations.

In every human endeavor, there will be risks and dangers. No more and no less than those dangers little children face when learning to cross the street. Provided we arm ourselves with good intentions and for as long as we use whatever abilities we acquire for the good of others, God will protect us from all possible harm.

Why develop, you may ask. Have you ever wondered what if Jesus did not demonstrate his “powers.” Would he have been believed as much? And yes, it is precisely because of the information gleaned from these occurrences that we are able to learn of the Real World, the World of Spirit and Higher Heavens.

I agree with pretty much what you say here, but maybe something like a Ouija Board might be more analogous to a child running diagonally through a busy intersection.

 

[Quintessence]

I agree with pretty much what you say here, but maybe something like a Ouija Board might be more analogous to a child running diagonally through a busy intersection.

Interesting. I've always viewed those boards like... mmm... like using mobility assistance devices even though your legs aren't broken. Or perhaps like mowing your lawn with a pair of scissors. Something like that.

 

[George-ananda]

Interesting. I've always viewed those boards like... mmm... like using mobility assistance devices even though your legs aren't broken. Or perhaps like mowing your lawn with a pair of scissors. Something like that.

Hmmm...do you believe in entities in a negative state that can psychically attach themselves to the physically living?

 

[Quintessence]

Hmmm...do you believe in entities in a negative state that can psychically attach themselves to the physically living?

That's not really what I was getting at there. It was mostly a comment that I think those boards are rather pathetic tools for working with the otherworlds. I would never even think of using one. It'd be like handicapping myself.

At any rate, as a nondualist, I don't think in terms of "negative" and "positive." There are simply denizens of the otherworlds, some of which might be more or less agreeable to some specific human than others.

 

[rusra02]

Those who are still young and inexperienced, weak in the faith, fearful and gullible should stay away. But those who are confident in their Light should light the way for others. Jesus associated with the prostitutes and tax collectors, more than with the powerful and rich elite, even the religious but hypocritical Pharisees and scribes. His followers should do the same.

Jesus associated with such persons to help sincere ones to repent. (Mark 2:16,17) No such repentance is possible for wicked spirits that willingly and knowingly rebelled against God. Any association with them can only bring great harm to people doing so.

 

[Angel1]

I agree with pretty much what you say here, but maybe something like a Ouija Board might be more analogous to a child running diagonally through a busy intersection.

Yours is the better analogy, of course, for most. Thanks. But for the earnest student and seeker, it’s really not all that intimidating. Here are some guiderules to follow, and then some -- http://goo.gl/QxKqXE.