Why I CANNOT Believe in The Resurrection

[Subduction Zone]

Nope , Faith is trusting because of assurance of the claim .

What? Faith is believing because someone says that it is so?

That is a rather unique definition.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The bible isn't one book . Its 66 books over 1500 years , over 40 different authors .

Your timescale appears to be off. Some of the "authors" of the Bible were fictitious. It did not begin to take its present form until the Babylonian captivity. The Bible does not appear to be as old as some Christians claim.

 

[John1.12]

What? Faith is believing because someone says that it is so?

That is a rather unique definition.

You seem to have twisted what I said there?

 

[John1.12]

Your timescale appears to be off. Some of the "authors" of the Bible were fictitious. It did not begin to take its present form until the Babylonian captivity. The Bible does not appear to be as old as some Christians claim.

Yeah I don't buy into that nonsense . Simply reading the bible destroys all the nonsense said about it .

 

[Subduction Zone]

You seem to have twisted what I said there?

What you said was so unclear that one could only twist it.

Faith appears to be belief without evidence. At least biblical faith fits that definition. There are several definitions of the term.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yeah I don't buy into that nonsense . Simply reading the bible destroys all the nonsense said about it .

LOL!! No, it really doesn't. That is merely circular reasoning and confirmation bias. It is hardly "nonsense" since the scholars that make those claims can support them. People that make the mistake of reading the Bible literally do not appear to be able to rationally justify their claims.

 

[John1.12]

What you said was so unclear that one could only twist it.

Faith appears to be belief without evidence. At least biblical faith fits that definition. There are several definitions of the term.

No that would be insane . That's not the biblical definition of faith . Faith is ' assurance ' . Assurance is given by Jesus rising from the dead .

 

[John1.12]

LOL!! No, it really doesn't. That is merely circular reasoning and confirmation bias. It is hardly "nonsense" since the scholars that make those claims can support them. People that make the mistake of reading the Bible literally do not appear to be able to rationally justify their claims.

I'm well aware of the ' My scholar is better than your scholar game ' . People pick the ' scholar ' which best suits them .

 

[Colt]

What makes you think that she does not like Jesus's words? She does not appear to follow your interpretation of his words. You should not conflate the two. And she definitely does not side with those that sought his destruction.

Baháʼu'lláh tortured revisionism of Jesus' words is a deliberate denial of what's there. Interpreting "parables" is one thing, Its fine not to believe it occurred, but the Bible says it did.


...we say that the meaning of Christ's resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, his bounties, his perfections, and his spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after his martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost; for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The CAUSE [emphasis added] of Christ was like a lifeless body; and, when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the CAUSE [emphasis added] of Christ of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting his counsels into practice, and ARISING [emphasis added] to serve him,... his religion found life, his teachings and admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the CAUSE [emphasis added] of Christ was like a lifeless body, until the life and bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it. - From a chapter of Some Answered Questions, old edition, pp.119-121



Finally, Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith, wrote through his secretary:


We do not believe that there was a bodily resurrection after the crucifiction of Christ, but that there was a time after His ascension when His disciples perceived spiritually his true greatness and realized He was eternal in being. This is what has been reported symbolically in the New Testament and been misunderstood. His eating with disciples after resurrection is the same thing. - High Endeavors: Messages to Alaska, pp.69-70

 

[Subduction Zone]

No that would be insane . That's not the biblical definition of faith . Faith is ' assurance ' . Assurance is given by Jesus rising from the dead .

No, that is the claimed definition according to the Bible. But it does not appear to be the real life definition of faith in the Bible. There is a difference.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm well aware of the ' My scholar is better than your scholar game ' . People pick the ' scholar ' which best suits them .

Oh my, no. Bible believers do not tend to rely on scholars. By definition scholars are those that are not afraid to put their ideas through peer review. If a person avoids peer review he can hardly claim to be a scholar. At least not one with any real authority.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Baháʼu'lláh tortured revisionism of Jesus' words is a deliberate denial of what's there. Interpreting "parables" is one thing, Its fine not to believe it occurred, but the Bible says it did.


...we say that the meaning of Christ's resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, his bounties, his perfections, and his spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after his martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost; for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The CAUSE [emphasis added] of Christ was like a lifeless body; and, when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the CAUSE [emphasis added] of Christ of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting his counsels into practice, and ARISING [emphasis added] to serve him,... his religion found life, his teachings and admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the CAUSE [emphasis added] of Christ was like a lifeless body, until the life and bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it. - From a chapter of Some Answered Questions, old edition, pp.119-121



Finally, Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Bahá'í Faith, wrote through his secretary:


We do not believe that there was a bodily resurrection after the crucifiction of Christ, but that there was a time after His ascension when His disciples perceived spiritually his true greatness and realized He was eternal in being. This is what has been reported symbolically in the New Testament and been misunderstood. His eating with disciples after resurrection is the same thing. - High Endeavors: Messages to Alaska, pp.69-70

Bahaullah has a very reasonable belief. Jesus probably did die on the cross. And it is extremely doubtful that there was a resurrection. In fact he was probably not even buried. That is not an attempt to destroy him or his teachings.

 

[whosetosay...]

Notice I didn't say, "I refuse to" The point is I cannot believe in it.

I watched a debate on the resurrection this morning. At some point, Matt Dillahunty came out and asked "Do you have anything outside the Bible to support the resurrection." Jonathan McLatchie answered. "NO."

That's it in a nutshell. All apologists--Craig, Licona, Horn, Woods, et al use nothing but the Bible to lay out their "evidence" Jesus rose. Claim: the apostles saw something that convinced them. Fact: There is no secular evidence anywhere outside the Bible that mentions the apostles. Claim: the empty tomb. Fact we have no empty tomb. Claim: the apostles were willing to die for their belief. Fact: we have nothing inside and outside the Bible that mentions what most of the apostles subsequently did or how they died. Claim: There were eyewitnesses. Fact: Nobody outside the Bible recorded a single thing about seeing Jesus after he was crucified.

Outrageous claim:

The historical evidence shows that: the grave was empty; the grave clothes were neatly left behind; the stone enclosing the tomb was rolled away; the body of Jesus was never found.

10 Concise Pieces of Evidence for the Resurrection - The Gospel Coalition | Canada

WHAT historical evidence????????

I mean in the link above it gets much MUCH worse than that.

Fact: take away the Bible and any "proof" for Jesus' resurrection collapses.

The bible did not exist as we know it now in the times after Christ. The Torah was all on one scroll without chapter and verses. The NT were letters about what happened during the life and times of Christ. The proof is when you are able to out to the test what is written about Christ and see if the Promises of God come true. You don't live bodies in the places the dead are buried. It is well documented what was written about Christ. You have to read it and do as it says to see if it is true. Till you have done that, then no one can say what the evidence is that supports the resurrection. YOU have to experience it for yourself. in a personal nature.

 

[Trailblazer]

You can, its meaningless, that's the word of a deluded false prophet. My shepherd is the Son of God.

Just can't take the competition can you? Jesus always has to be better, the only way. That is not how Baha's think or believe, in terms of better and best.

The reason the religions are at odds with each other is because they misinterpreted their scriptures, which led them to believe that their religion was the only true religion and the last religion that would ever be established by God. With such a belief they had to be at odds with any religion that was established before or after their religion.

Baha’u’llah warns us never to make any distinction between any of the Messengers of God because they all arise to proclaim the same religion, since there is only one eternal religion of God. Baha’u’llah wrote that the works and acts of all the Messengers of God were all ordained by God, a reflection of His Will and Purpose.

“Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 59-60

 

[Trailblazer]

That is not an attempt to destroy him or his teachings.

No, it certainly isn't, especially because Jesus did not even know about the resurrection or teach the resurrection.
All these resurrection stories were written about Jesus decades after he died.

 

[John1.12]

No, that is the claimed definition according to the Bible. But it does not appear to be the real life definition of faith in the Bible. There is a difference.

You'd have to be an idiot to base your life on no assurance/ trust / or validity to a truth claim . What's the point ? I would argue i have all the assurance I need to trust on Jesus.

 

[John1.12]

Oh my, no. Bible believers do not tend to rely on scholars. By definition scholars are those that are not afraid to put their ideas through peer review. If a person avoids peer review he can hardly claim to be a scholar. At least not one with any real authority.

That's quite niave . There's book sales to make, accreditation, university placements, credibility and reputation to influence the most noble intentions.

 

[Colt]

Bahaullah has a very reasonable belief. Jesus probably did die on the cross. And it is extremely doubtful that there was a resurrection. In fact he was probably not even buried. That is not an attempt to destroy him or his teachings.

Ok, if you REALLY think that the Bible doesn't ay Jesus resurrected from the dead then I'm not going to argue with you. I think you are just choosing sides in an argument, I doubt your sincerity around this topic.

 

[Trailblazer]

My shepherd is the Son of God. You don't like his words and side with those who sought his destruction.

You can't make that work because Baha'u'llah did not side with those who sought the destruction of Jesus.
In fact, the following is what Baha'u'llah wrote about the trial of Jesus:

“Similarly, call thou to mind the day when the Jews, who had surrounded Jesus, Son of Mary, were pressing Him to confess His claim of being the Messiah and Prophet of God, so that they might declare Him an infidel and sentence Him to death. Then, they led Him away, He Who was the Day-star of the heaven of divine Revelation, unto Pilate and Caiaphas, who was the leading divine of that age. The chief priests were all assembled in the palace, also a multitude of people who had gathered to witness His sufferings, to deride and injure Him. Though they repeatedly questioned Him, hoping that He would confess His claim, yet Jesus held His peace and spake not. Finally, an accursed of God arose and, approaching Jesus, adjured Him saying: “Didst thou not claim to be the Divine Messiah? Didst thou not say, ‘I am the King of Kings, My word is the Word of God, and I am the breaker of the Sabbath day?’” Thereupon Jesus lifted up His head and said: “Beholdest thou not the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power and might?” These were His words, and yet consider how to outward seeming He was devoid of all power except that inner power which was of God and which had encompassed all that is in heaven and on earth. How can I relate all that befell Him after He spoke these words? How shall I describe their heinous behaviour towards Him? They at last heaped on His blessed Person such woes that He took His flight unto the fourth Heaven.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 132-133

 

[sojourner]

Nope , Faith is trusting because of assurance of the claim .

You’re making an idol of the Bible.