Why I Hate, Hate, Hate Religion!

[Oberon]

We have what Hitler wrote, he's published, and we have what he said on film. What some have said he said in order to save face, as in Oberon's sources, is best ignored.

I supplied you with a number of quotes from Hitler himself which indicate how little he thought of Christianity. You have quotes from Hitler that indicate the reverse. In other words, Hitler, at different times and to different people, said different things about christianity, some which indicate an extreme hatred or dislike of it, and others which indicate support. How does one tell what he really thought?

We can look to his policies, and to the policies of the Nazi party. You have yet to answer why, if Hitler supported christianity, and we should ignore all his statements to the contrary (and use only his statements which indicate his support) he and his regime actively discouraged christianity via official policy.

 

[Storm]

Hitler explained in no uncertain terms as to why he was putting the fight to the Jews, and I'm absent of reason for pointing that out. It's mud slinging to quote a Christian, even if it's Hitler, OK, got it.

I'm slandering Hitler and his fellow Christians, sorry about that. I'm so bad.

I've researched it plenty, the sources from Hitler's Table Talk are hearsay, unverifiable, and I don't care whether you believe me. What Hitler did say is recorded, we have copies of his own publications and films.

What you're doing is no better than free spirit saying all homosexuals are pedophiles. You're dishonest and bigoted, and I'm done wasting my time with you.

 

[dogsgod]

What you're doing is no better than free spirit saying all homosexuals are pedophiles. You're dishonest and bigoted, and I'm done wasting my time with you.

Yes, it's forbotten to criticize Christians, even if it's Hitler. I'm the bigot and the dishonest one for doing so.

 

[Storm]

Yes, it's forbotten to criticize Christians, even if it's Hitler. I'm the bigot and the dishonest one for doing so.

NOt at all what I said, but don't let that stop you from displaying your dishonesty again.

 

[Oberon]

Yes, it's forbotten to criticize Christians, even if it's Hitler.

So Goebbel’s remarks in his private diaries about Hitler’s hatred of christianity are to be regarded with more suspicion than the public announcements of a man who constantly utilized propaganda?

And I’m sure the virulently anti-christian memorandum of Martin Bormann (deputy leader in the party) in 1942 was then squashed because of Hitler’s pro-Christian attitude. Oh, wait. It wasn’t.

And the fact that Nazi members were expected to “sever active connections with the Church” (The Totalitarian Party: Party and People in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, p. 94) was done against Hitler’s will. Oh wait, he was the head of the Nazi party. Hmm.

And Hitler’s anti-Christian statements in the Hossbach memorandum, an internal document of the Nazi party, are certainly to be discounted, when compared to public propaganda (which Hitler himself states, in Mein Kampf, are designed only to manipulate the masses).

The fact that the Hitler Youth recited prayers to Hitler, and not god, and that after 1937 the Nazis stopped celebrating Christmas, and that Churches were under Gestapo surveillance, that the Nazis closed religious schools, etc (see Richard Evans The Third Reich in Power), should certainly not make it appear that Hitler was anything but pro-Christian.

No, as dogsgod says, rather than look to private conversations, internal documents, or official Nazi policies, we should trust Hitler’s propaganda over anything else to gain an accurate view of his position on Christianity.

 

[dogsgod]

Hitler had Jews killed because he was anti-Christian, yeah, that's it, that makes sense.

 

[Storm]

Hitler had Jews killed because he was anti-Christian, yeah, that's it, that makes sense.

 

[ChristineES]

Hitler had Jews killed because he needed a scapegoat. I have met very few Christians who hate Jews, and I have met some "Jews for Jesus" as well- they sang at my Church when I was about 19.

 

[dogsgod]

Hitler had Jews killed because he needed a scapegoat. I have met very few Christians who hate Jews, and I have met some "Jews for Jesus" as well- they sang at my Church when I was about 19.

Who went along with Hitler, or did he kill six million Jews on his own before anyone noticed?

 

[ChristineES]

Who went along with Hitler, or did he kill six million Jews on his own before anyone noticed?

Last I heard, they were called Nazis.

 

[Oberon]

Who went along with Hitler, or did he kill six million Jews on his own before anyone noticed?

The Nazis, who (as I pointed out) discouraged and discriminated against churches.

You have yet to respond to any of my arguments because (as is typical of you) you can't. All you have are propoganda statements Hitler made which make it seem like he is christian. I have private statements, internal Nazi documents, and Nazi policy which contradict his propaganda.

Once again, you are poorly informed and reduced to inane and baseless statements to argue your case.

 

[dogsgod]

Hitler expressed Christian beliefs because he was anti-Christian. Got it.

 

[J Bryson]

Hitler expressed Christian beliefs because he was anti-Christian. Got it.

Hitler also said that he'd stop at the Rhineland. And that he wouldn't open a front against the Soviets. And that the Jews were being sent to relocation camps where they would live pleasant lives.

But of course he would never lie about his religious beliefs in order to curry favor with and manipulate the masses, no matter what documented evidence has been shown in this thread to the contrary.

 

[dogsgod]

To those arguing that Hitler was not a Christian, why is he appealing to Christians with this anti Jewish rhetoric?


"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.
-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)








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[dogsgod]

Hitler also said that he'd stop at the Rhineland. And that he wouldn't open a front against the Soviets. And that the Jews were being sent to relocation camps where they would live pleasant lives.

But of course he would never lie about his religious beliefs in order to curry favor with and manipulate the masses, no matter what documented evidence has been shown in this thread to the contrary.

Read post 214. He's using Christian beliefs in order to curry favour with the Jew hating Christians. Christianity doesn't exactly come out of this smelling like a rose.

 

[J Bryson]

To those arguing that Hitler was not a Christian, why is he appealing to Christians with this anti Jewish rhetoric?


"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.
-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)








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Because, as I and others have repeatedly attempted to point out to you, he realized that religion was a wonderful tool to manipulate the masses. What in the world would make you trust his public pronouncements in contrast to his private ones? The only ones who do that are the very Nazis who you and I both disdain.

 

[dogsgod]

Because, as I and others have repeatedly attempted to point out to you, he realized that religion was a wonderful tool to manipulate the masses. What in the world would make you trust his public pronouncements in contrast to his private ones? The only ones who do that are the very Nazis who you and I both disdain.

He appeals to Christians with rhetoric such as "Jewish poison." If this is how religion is used to manipulate the masses then count me out.

 

[Oberon]

Hitler expressed Christian beliefs because he was anti-Christian. Got it.

Yes, to gain support from Christians. Wow, how unusual for a guy who uses propaganda all the time! Again, if he was christian, why do internal documents, private conversations (including the one recorded in Goebbels diary) and Nazi policy clearly disciminate against christianity? You have yet to explain that.

 

[dogsgod]

Yes, to gain support from Christians. Wow, how unusual for a guy who uses propaganda all the time! Again, if he was christian, why do internal documents, private conversations (including the one recorded in Goebbels diary) and Nazi policy clearly disciminate against christianity? You have yet to explain that.

Yes, to gain support from Christians by using propaganda such as "Jewish poison" in his speeches. How does this make Christians better than Hitler?

 

[Oberon]

Yes, to gain support from Christians by using propaganda such as "Jewish poison" in his speeches. How does this make Christians better than Hitler?

Christians have a long history of anti-semitism. I would never deny it. However, the point here is that atheistic ideology can be just as responsible for atrocities as religious ideology. It was the Nazis, and anti-christian group, who were ultimately responsible for the mass slaughter.