Why I left Islâm

[YmirGF]

Well according to tradition, the companions of Muhammad collected and wrote the Qur'an for him, first on large pieces of organic material, and later on an organized version was ordered by the Caliph Abu Bakr.

And they began to write it down because the folks who had memorized it were getting killed off like flies. It is a great pity that the scribes didn't get killed off too.

 

[Caladan]

And they began to write it down because the folks who had memorized it were getting killed off like flies.

yeap, thats true. but remember that while in modern warfare the high commanders are far from the heat of battle, in ancient times, the supreme commanders, even the king or the prince are present on the battle field.

 

[Kodanshi]

Yes, I agree. It is also amusing how many cling to the notion that he could not read or write. It is almost like they are claiming that a person who cannot read or write is stupid. Try to imagine and Issac Newton or an Albert Einstein who did not learn to read or write. They would still be geniuses regardless and would still be able to think circles around their contemporaries without breaking into a sweat. In my view, if a person can think, and articulate their thoughts, that is all they need to be able to author a book. Leave the writing to their minions.

The point with Islâm centres on the fact that people who made the final redaction assumed that if Muhammad could read and write it would automatically follow that he had penned the Qur’ân itself — the Jewish concept of inspiration from god obviously not in his culture at all.

I wrote a piece on the literacy of Muhammad. I tried to post it here but the formatting messed up. I think I’ve figured a way around it so I can post it up soon — would anyone take any interest in reading it?

 

[Caladan]

The point with Islâm centres on the fact that people who made the final redaction assumed that if Muhammad could read and write it would automatically follow that he had penned the Qur’ân itself — the Jewish concept of inspiration from god obviously not in his culture at all.

One of the fascinating things I find in the Qur'an, is that the Hebrew prophets are dealt with through out the book, while Muhammad is mentioned only a handful of times. the people of Israel are also dealt with through out the book. Moses, the figure most people largely use to relate to the Jewish people, is dealt with by far the most.
Halachatic or Jewish thought is found through out the Qur'an. when you read the Qur'an in a semitic language (Hebrew, Arabic) its in the very spirit of the Qur'an.

 

[Kodanshi]

Love your Dune signature, by the way! Back on topic: Muhammad (as you can tell, I don’t believe that allah sent divine messages to him), brought up Jewish prophets in order to bring out some similarity between him and them — e.g. Moshe’s hardship brought up to give comfort to the hardships experienced by Muhammad and the muslims, etc.

 

[challupa]

i understand what you are saying, i am also not bothered by criticism or advice, because i learn from them.

and you are right, when i speak of something from the quran or my belief as a muslim i ussualy think that others must accept it, i forgot i wasn't sopposed to do that, i've been tolled this many times, but this time i will remember it. i'll try anyway.

thanks for your post.

It has been my experience that when we passionately believe something and it has brought us joy and peace, we passionately wish everyone could understand it so they would have joy and peace. In my years of living though, I have grown to understand that different things bring joy and peace to different people. That is okay because the final goal for me is joy and peace. I realize it is more complicated for you because it is also about eternal life not just joy or peace. However, people must be true to what works for them.

 

[.lava]

And they began to write it down because the folks who had memorized it were getting killed off like flies. It is a great pity that the scribes didn't get killed off too.

a great pity huh? is it really difficult to be yourself without breaking hearts? would you wish for my death too? you know i am IN LOVE WITH ISLAM...

yea....never mind:cold:

.

 

[Kodanshi]

Come come now, the founder of your religion wishes for my death…

 

[YmirGF]

a great pity huh? is it really difficult to be yourself without breaking hearts? would you wish for my death too? you know i am IN LOVE WITH ISLAM...

yea....never mind:cold:

.

The thing is .lava, I believe you are a spiritual person regardless of your transitory affiliations. To me, you would still be the same magnificent human animal even if Islam had never reared its ugly head and it isn't likely that I'd wish you were dead.

 

[Peace]

And they began to write it down because the folks who had memorized it were getting killed off like flies. It is a great pity that the scribes didn't get killed off too.

:sarcastic killing is in your blood....

The thing is .lava, ... To me, you would still be the same magnificent human animal even if Islam had never reared its ugly head and it isn't likely that I'd wish you were dead.

and what if you wish it? are you dreaming that your wishes will come true?:areyoucra

 

[McBell]

oh sorry my bad, i look like a human, my face is different to a monkey, i have a thumb with whom i can touch the rest of my fingers unlike a monkey, i have feet with which i cannot hold onto branches and cannot pick up things with them unlike a monkey.

and you too didn't answer my questions.

What question?
The one about the potato?

I personally could care less about the number of chromosomes.
It is the way the way it is.
It is a simlpe as that.

 

[YmirGF]

:sarcastic killing is in your blood....

Being a human animal, this is not something that I am inclined to deny. Killing IS in my blood, but the reality is that it is in the "blood" of all human animals, yourself included. In simpler terms yet, "MR. Kettle, meet Mr. Pot!"

and what if you wish it? are you dreaming that your wishes will come true?

:areyoucra

Why would I wish someone I respect to be dead? It makes no sense. I respect .lava above and beyond her transitory religious affiliations.

 

[.lava]

Why would I wish someone I respect to be dead? It makes no sense. I respect .lava above and beyond her transitory religious affiliations.

but dear friend, why would you wish someone you do not respect to be dead? you do not respect but we do respect. you do not love but we truly do. i personally do not see difference between two opposites who have same point of view for each other. if a Muslim do you wrong because you're non-Muslim, you would find me defending you. yet very soon i would find myself defending Muslims because you do them wrong. don't you think you become what you critize by doing it so? this is the main reason why i say 'never mind' and i rather leave than arguing. i can not change people. i still love them. everyone has one or two things to be loved for and i am willing to find those reasons. i believe this is why you like me. i have a teacher who thought me to love, someone from family of Mohammad (SAW). you are not the only one who's trying find excuses for my humanity. yours is the closest to truth. yes, i am spiritual person but also, Mohammad (SAW) is my spiritual father.

there are bad people in every nation and in every religious group. they are just full of hatred. your hatred for them is their reason to hate you more and their hatred for you is your reason to hate them more. don't get me wrong cos there are some type of Muslim who hate me too. the one who's willing to reject to add that chain of hatred is the one who follows footsteps of Prophet. i am more than happy to see there are non-Muslims who see that and they are willing to break that chain reaction. there is no other way to bring peace to our world. so in my opinion humanity is divided in two. but not as Muslims and non-Muslims. am i being clear?


.

 

[Gharib]

correct, im surprised that eselam, a Muslim, displays such a wealth of ignorance of the life of the prophet, it is known that Muhammad traveled as a merchant, and it is a popular claim that he studied with Jews and Christians.

may i also add another popular claim, he was El Emin, the trust worthy one, but this was untill he became a muslim, then people never called him the trust worthy but instead the son of a shepherd.

and i never denied that he was not a mechant and didn't deal with other people.

 

[Gharib]

Yes, I agree. It is also amusing how many cling to the notion that he could not read or write. It is almost like they are claiming that a person who cannot read or write is stupid. Try to imagine and Issac Newton or an Albert Einstein who did not learn to read or write. They would still be geniuses regardless and would still be able to think circles around their contemporaries without breaking into a sweat. In my view, if a person can think, and articulate their thoughts, that is all they need to be able to author a book. Leave the writing to their minions.

no in the contrary, Muhammed (saws) was the smartest man alive even though he was illiterate. he knew of everything, but now you will say this is ignorance too right, if i say he was illiterate and wasn't very bright you would say thats not true, but now i'm saying the opposite, so now what?

 

[Gharib]

Well according to tradition, the companions of Muhammad collected and wrote the Qur'an for him, first on large pieces of organic material, and later on an organized version was ordered by the Caliph Abu Bakr.

yes true. the writiing was done while muhammed (saws) was alive, and in the last year that he lived on earth the quran was revised twice. Muhammed (saws) revised it with Jebraeel (as).

 

[Gharib]

Come come now, the founder of your religion wishes for my death…

thats because you have asked for it. (no offence or dissrespect) but why did you believe in islam all these years, why not leave it once you became mature enough?

 

[Gharib]

[/color]Being a human animal, this is not something that I am inclined to deny. Killing IS in my blood, but the reality is that it is in the "blood" of all human animals, yourself included. In simpler terms yet, "MR. Kettle, meet Mr. Pot!"

Why would I wish someone I respect to be dead? It makes no sense. I respect .lava above and beyond her transitory religious affiliations.

what about me? would you have me dead? and i'm not an animal, just incase you intend to use that term.

 

[Gharib]

What question?
The one about the potato?

I personally could care less about the number of chromosomes.
It is the way the way it is.
It is a simlpe as that.

what about the donkey?

is that as simple too?

 

[Kodanshi]

thats because you have asked for it. (no offence or dissrespect) but why did you believe in islam all these years, why not leave it once you became mature enough?

What do you mean ‘mature enough’? I’m in my early–mid 30s and have given it years of deep and searching thought.

Oh, and incidentally Muhammad was NOT illiterate:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/78922-muhammad-s-illiteracy.html