Why I left Islâm

[darkendless]

what are you saying man, i don't get you?

and for the second part, those opposers are the insane people not me, and i don't type fast, so don't worry. why give up even if 1000 people are against me when i'm right. all the arabs were against muhammed (saws) and yet his message came across to me.

Im saying you can't be a robot, you're arguements change with the nature of the debate. You cant programme a robot to do that.

Im speaking generally in the second part, that wasn't directed at you.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eselam
ok let me ask you something; how does rain come about?
in chemistry it is said that the sun heats the oceans, water turns to vapour, which then turns to clouds and at the top of the mountain it rains.

is this what you also beleive? you must believe in this because acording to you Allah (swt) does not make vegetation come to life from rain, and that rain just comes down by it's own will. i wonder how rain knows it is time to rain?
Quote:
Originally posted by Koanshi
Something like your first paragraph. However, though I studied Geography at A–Level I did it because I could not settle on a choice of which final subject to pick. I don’t know the intricately detailed ins and outs of our planet’s weather system, but I know enough to say that some mysterious supernatural entity doesn’t cause it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eselam
so if rain comes down in that way, where is it then? look at what global warming is doing, heating up the earth, shoulden't we be flooded by rain by now? the seas are becoming warmer, meaning they water can evaporise more quicker, which will turn into clouds more often, which means there would be more rain more often. but i haven's seen any, have you? and not in just some parts or countries but in all of the ones who touch the see or have lakes inland.

is anyone going to reply to this? i was asked to posted so...................still waiting

A lot of people have responded to this. I have for one. The problem, eselam, is that many of us consider this a disingenuous line of reasoning. It seems you are trying to prove that rain does not work according to scientific principles, that it is unexplainable and therefore, is proof of Allah. First of all, you must prove that Global Warming exists. Second, you must convince us that if global warming is taking place, it's effects should include increased rain. Third, you must show us that the changing weather patterns are not showing exactly what global warming would predict they should. No one will simply take your word for it that all these things are true.

I don't think trying to prove that something is unexplainable will help you very much. There are lots of things that we don't understand right now. I don't think this is proof of God's existence. It's proof that we have a lot to learn.

 

[Kodanshi]

^ To add to the above, once you have proved all that, eselam, you need to show that this proves the existence of allah and not any other deity.

 

[.lava]

^ To add to the above, once you have proved all that, eselam, you need to show that this proves the existence of ALLAH and not any other deity.

hi i think this is asking too much. nobody could give proof of God. except for Allah itself. Eselam is just a man, he is not authority over God to offer its proof whenever he was asked for it.


.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

hi i think this is asking too much. nobody could give proof of God. except for Allah itself. Eselam is just a man, he is not authority over God to offer its proof whenever he was asked for it.


.

I think that is the same point the rest of us are making.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

hi i think this is asking too much. nobody could give proof of God. except for Allah itself. Eselam is just a man, he is not authority over God to offer its proof whenever he was asked for it.

Tell that to eselam. As DavyCrocket said, the rest of us agree with you.

 

[YmirGF]

Tell that to eselam. As DavyCrocket said, the rest of us agree with you.

Perhaps it might mean more to him coming from .lava. She is a pretty wise little human animal so hopefully her message to Eselam will get through. Personally, I'm not holding my breath that the incarnation of ignorance will "get it".

 

[McBell]

sure, no worries

i repeat "sure, no worries"

My apologies.
I do not know how to dumb it down anymore.

Not that it would matter, you have made up your mind and that is all there is to it for you.

 

[Luminous]

"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~Voltaire

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~Voltaire

 

[Gharib]

Tell that to eselam. As DavyCrocket said, the rest of us agree with you.

what do i need to be tolled?

to what do you guys agree?

 

[Gharib]

^ To add to the above, once you have proved all that, eselam, you need to show that this proves the existence of allah and not any other deity.

i think you got me here. i may end up proving the existence of the diety called "chance" or "random" or "probability", who happened to create everything by random. how funny is that, see i did say i might end up proving "random"

 

[Gharib]

Perhaps it might mean more to him coming from .lava.

so know you are speaking in my name? what makes you think it would mean more?

but i do agree with whatever lava said, the thing is, did lava say i can prove god or that i can't, i didn't understand the post.

She is a pretty wise little human animal so hopefully her message to Eselam will get through.

first of all, she is not an animal, you wish to be one thats fine, lets discuss it, although i did prove that humans are not animals.

second, atleast i accept things from muslims, you wouldn't accept anything from a muslim.

1+1 = 2. to you it = 3, right.

Personally, I'm not holding my breath that the incarnation of ignorance will "get it".

you know it is ussualy wrong to assume things before they are even close of happening. but the thing is my ignorance doesn't prevent me from the truth.

and you do know that my "proof" was very good, otherwise try to dissprove it with your proof. but i would not hold my breath that the ignorance will let you. cos you know you can't.

 

[McBell]

but i do agree with whatever lava said, the thing is, did lava say i can prove god or that i can't, i didn't understand the post.

You agree with her but do not understand what she is saying?
How does that work?

... although i did prove that humans are not animals.

You never did any such thing.
At least not to anyone outside your choir.

second, atleast i accept things from muslims, you wouldn't accept anything from a muslim.

Dictate much?

1+1 = 2. to you it = 3, right.

What are you talking about?
Yes 1+1=2, but then so does 10-8.

you know it is ussualy wrong to assume things before they are even close of happening. but the thing is my ignorance doesn't prevent me from the truth.

Perhaps, but your pride in your ignorance sure does.

and you do know that my "proof" was very good, otherwise try to dissprove it with your proof. but i would not hold my breath that the ignorance will let you. cos you know you can't.

ROTFLMAO

You have as yet to present anything that even remotely resembles "proof" to anyone outside your choir.

 

[Gharib]

You agree with her but do not understand what she is saying?
How does that work?

i would act apon it if i knew what she said. get it?

You never did any such thing.
At least not to anyone outside your choir.

sure, ok

Dictate much?

whats this for?

What are you talking about?
Yes 1+1=2, but then so does 10-8.

yes i know that, you know that, but because i know that, YMG will say that 1+1= 3, he never agrees with muslims, well never accepts anything from them. he said it himself.

Perhaps, but your pride in your ignorance sure does.

i repeat; "sure, ok"

ROTFLMAO

You have as yet to present anything that even remotely resembles "proof" to anyone outside your choir.

you already mentioned "choir" before.

my reply; i repeat for the third time "sure, ok"

 

[.lava]

but i do agree with whatever lava said, the thing is, did lava say i can prove god or that i can't, i didn't understand the post.

dear friend, let me try to explain. proof of God is with God, it is not with us. therefor relationship between God and individual is private. which means, if you asked for proof of God, you got to ask it from God and when you have that proof you can not share it with others because just like yourself they have free will to ask for it. we do not need each other to find proof of God. you robably know that in Qur'an there are ayats that tell about evidence of God. the word ayat itself actually means sign. here is an example;

3:49....Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

i would also like to remind you names of Allah.

Az-Zahir The Manifest One
Al-Batin The Hidden One

they are both names of Allah. if something was hidden to me, you could not force me to see. the very same thing could be manifested for you. but that does not mean it is not hidden for me or that does not mean you can eliminate name of Allah to make everyone to see. not even Prophets had that kind of permission or power over others. we are all equal when it comes to relationship with God. you can not make me see what you see. only God can. you can only pray Allah for me to see.


.

 

[Gharib]

dear friend, let me try to explain. proof of God is with God, it is not with us. therefor relationship between God and individual is private. which means, if you asked for proof of God, you got to ask it from God and when you have that proof you can not share it with others because just like yourself they have free will to ask for it. we do not need each other to find proof of God. you robably know that in Qur'an there are ayats that tell about evidence of God. the word ayat itself actually means sign. here is an example;

3:49....Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

i would also like to remind you names of Allah.

Az-Zahir The Manifest One
Al-Batin The Hidden One

they are both names of Allah. if something was hidden to me, you could not force me to see. the very same thing could be manifested for you. but that does not mean it is not hidden for me or that does not mean you can eliminate name of Allah to make everyone to see. not even Prophets had that kind of permission or power over others. we are all equal when it comes to relationship with God. you can not make me see what you see. only God can. you can only pray Allah for me to see.


.

i understand sister, but me trying to give them proof of god, is just seeking their ignorance, i would never expect any of them to actually believe me.
that would mean i am just as ignorant as them wanting to see actual proof of god, and the funny thing is they are asking a person who is just as equal as them to prove the existence of Allah.

i did say a few posts back that Allah says to us that the true believers believe in the unseen, thats what sets us appart to the non muslims, here are the verses that i posted;

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
[2:1] A.L.M.
[2:2] This scripture is infallible; a beacon for the righteous;
[2:3] who believe in the unseen, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and from our provisions to them, they give to charity.
[2:4] And they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, and with regard to the Hereafter, they are absolutely certain.
[2:5] These are guided by their Lord; these are the winners.

 

[.lava]

i understand sister, but me trying to give them proof of god, is just seeking their ignorance, i would never expect any of them to actually believe me.
that would mean i am just as ignorant as them wanting to see actual proof of god, and the funny thing is they are asking a person who is just as equal as them to prove the existence of Allah.

Eselam, i do not understand your intention here. sharing ideas, beliefs and personal commentaries are perfectly humane and normal. therefor people are here, to share and to hear different point of views.

in my opinion i am ignorant, therefor i learn. we are all ignorant. but i would not label people 'ignorant' as if i was not. i hope we all see that would be better for everyone if we intent to find what we have in common. because you either build a relationship on differencies which leads hatred, negative feelings and separation or you build a relationship on what you have in common with others which leads love, respect and humanity. i chosed to love people. as a Muslim i have no doubt, loving people is loving God. someone is more ignorant than i am, then i would respect his ignorance. because there are people who offer same respect and love to mine.

love people. love eveyone. do not look down on others cos if you do, you would not be able to leave this reality before you become what you look down upon. excuse me here if you must but seriously, that is an advice.


.

 

[YmirGF]

so know you are speaking in my name? what makes you think it would mean more?

How is wagering a bet, speaking in your name? What made me think it would mean more is experience. In my experience I have seen that Muslims will often take the word of other Muslims before they will accept the word of non-Muslims. See, so simple.

but i do agree with whatever lava said, the thing is, did lava say i can prove god or that i can't, i didn't understand the post.

That is interesting, how can you agree with everything, when you don't understand what is being said?

first of all, she is not an animal, you wish to be one thats fine, lets discuss it, although i did prove that humans are not animals.

Eselam, you proved nothing of the kind. The utter tragedy in all this is that you actually believe you did prove something.

second, atleast i accept things from muslims, you wouldn't accept anything from a muslim.

1+1 = 2. to you it = 3, right.

That is patently untrue, Eselam. I have agreed with .lava on several occaisions (mind you, I have also vehemently disagreed with her on other occaisions). Likewise, I have agreed with Not4me, Peace, TashaN and others from time to time, so it isn't like I never do it, although I am willing to admit that it is a rare occaision. The way things are going, it is unlikely that you will be joining their august ranks any time soon.

you know it is ussualy wrong to assume things before they are even close of happening. but the thing is my ignorance doesn't prevent me from the truth.

That is because so-called "truth" is relative, Eselam.

and you do know that my "proof" was very good, otherwise try to dissprove it with your proof. but i would not hold my breath that the ignorance will let you. cos you know you can't.

Actually you only believe you so-called "proof" was good, Eselam. I don't recall anyone saying to you, "Now that is wrong, but very clever, nonetheless!"


On a side note: I do think that the last several posts (111-117) are clear examples of why the poster of the OP left Islam. One can hardly blame him.

 

[Gharib]

Eselam, i do not understand your intention here. sharing ideas, beliefs and personal commentaries are perfectly humane and normal. therefor people are here, to share and to hear different point of views.

in my opinion i am ignorant, therefor i learn. we are all ignorant. but i would not label people 'ignorant' as if i was not. i hope we all see that would be better for everyone if we intent to find what we have in common. because you either build a relationship on differencies which leads hatred, negative feelings and separation or you build a relationship on what you have in common with others which leads love, respect and humanity. i chosed to love people. as a Muslim i have no doubt, loving people is loving God. someone is more ignorant than i am, then i would respect his ignorance. because there are people who offer same respect and love to mine.

love people. love eveyone. do not look down on others cos if you do, you would not be able to leave this reality before you become what you look down upon. excuse me here if you must but seriously, that is an advice.


.

ok thank you sister, you really got to me this time with the "do not look down on people" i have read a hadith about that sort of thing, so i agree,

and i am just advising the non muslims, allah says this too in the quran, advise them (thats not the exact verse)