I don't agree at all. Why would it be required to accept Jesus if one does not believe him to be anything more than a wise man with good wisdom? What about following other faiths? Don't you think God is big enough to be able to appeal to ALL faiths, and not just the one?? The way you see it makes God into a selective monster who throw anyone with the temerity to believe in another faith into pits of hell. Not a way I would ever conceive of God.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Why is Confidence in Organized Religion At All Time Low?
- Thread starter gsa
- Start date
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The United Atheist League, the United Atheist Alliance, and the Allied Atheist Alliance.
But, in all seriousness, we'll find other stuff to fight over, much like how we fight over other things today. We like to look at Islam in the Middle East today, but ignore how Russia and America played secular roles in flaming those fires of war over resource acquisition. General Smedley Butler was sent to Central and South America numerous times during the late 19th/early 20th century to do nothing more than fight for corporate interests (in Butler's own words, he was a "gangster for capitalism"). Violence against minorities still exists. And many in America believe military intervention is an appropriate method to spread democracy.
"If someone doesn't play an instrument, what do they do in place of music?" Makes about as much sense as a question.
Just because some people find value in religion doesn't religion should be considered normative. We shouldn't assume that non-religious people have a "religion-shaped" hole in their lives.
What we really have is a "purpose-shaped" hole in our lives. Some people fill this hole with religion (of varying shapes) plus a bunch of other stuff. Non-religious people just fill it with the "other stuff".
JesusBeliever
Active Member
And that's not a way I would ever conceive of God either, though I can understand you thinking I do and I'm sorry if I gave you this impression. My understanding of hell is unlike that traditionally held by my brethren. I certainly do believe God is big enough to be able to appeal to people of ALL faiths. I've gotta go to bed but I'll leave you a few verses that come to mind:
James 3:6
Matthew 15:18-19
Isaiah 33:14-15
Acts 10:34-35
Rom 2:13-16
John 6:42-45
1Corinthians 15:22-28
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Right on!! Paul, imho, changed the message of Jesus drastically.
Most definitely. I just think that religious dogma atrophies religion proper as well.
Definitely, but it seems to me that people end up developing their own diferentials out of a need for a sense of identity. Religion is IMO basically unavoidable, although it does not have to be quite so sick as it often is.
I suspect it would not even be well tolerated back in the day. It is so utterly destructive!
That is one of the many reasons why religion should be salvaged IMO.
Perhaps. But religion is not just superstitious dogma, or even well served by it. A realistic scenario where it vanishes will have to attempt to answer what happened to make such a meaningful change possible.
Nor should we ignore that current evidence shows that people end up attaching to it or at least redefining it in order to preserve it in some shape.
Fair enough, but it becomes a bit of a semantics play.
Well, first off, I hope you sleep well my dear. And second, its so refreshing to post with someone who is polite and understanding of other peoples' faiths! What a novel idea, to be civil to each other, non? You have absolutely nothing to apologize for. I had erroneously thought you were thinking of God as Fish does and that is simply to close minded and myopic to even consider. As for the verses, there are some I like there but others I consider to be Paulian dogma, and not what I believe The Christ would have taught. Of course, you have to understand that I don't believe Christ was divine but rather a good wise teacher, much like The Buddha. But a most excellent response Mr/S. Believer.
Namaste
Indeed and IMO, it does not even resemble what Christ taught. If we take the teachings attributed to him, such as the Sermon of the Mount, The gospel of Thomas, The Gospel of Mary Magdalene, and even the Gospel According Jesus Christ, we see a much different view of what Christ truly taught, IMO. No particular rules, per se but rather a message of love and understanding and self reflection. There is no need for a 'church' other than perhaps communing with those of a like mind, and that can be anywhere. Women are certainly not lesser than men and can preach if they want. There is nothing mentioned about gays or any of that. This is what Paul wanted, not Christ.
LuisDante said"
Definitely, but it seems to me that people end up developing their own diferentials out of a need for a sense of identity. Religion is IMO basically unavoidable, although it does not have to be quite so sick as it often is.
I find that need to be of someone who is a 'younger soul'. If one follows a Buddhist path, one comes to know that the soul is what is being taught, or rather enlightened. There is no need for a sense of self because there is no self in the real sense of the word. So in that sense, I agree that some will need an organized religion. I just find that to be a hindrance to my path now.
Definitely, but it seems to me that people end up developing their own diferentials out of a need for a sense of identity. Religion is IMO basically unavoidable, although it does not have to be quite so sick as it often is.
I find that need to be of someone who is a 'younger soul'. If one follows a Buddhist path, one comes to know that the soul is what is being taught, or rather enlightened. There is no need for a sense of self because there is no self in the real sense of the word. So in that sense, I agree that some will need an organized religion. I just find that to be a hindrance to my path now.
Still, I assume you accept that we need youngsters still?
dogfishparisi
Member
The Bible repeatedly states that the Gods word is written in the hearts and minds of men. I find this particularly interesting - given the many common threads across world religions pertaining to morality, charity, family relationships, etc...
Therefore, isn't it possible that God expresses to all of us in all cultures? Could it be our percieved differences that confuse us?
Therefore, isn't it possible that God expresses to all of us in all cultures? Could it be our percieved differences that confuse us?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
No. Things like morality vary from place to place and from time to time, what is considered family varies from place to place and from time to time (today, in America and throughout the Western culture, we have what is one of the most limited and narrow definitions about what family is when compared to other cultures and times). Many people are not charitable and promote ideas such as Social Darwinism (not to be confused with Darwinian/Natural Selection evolution).
Your stance is far too simple, and is a logical fallacy to state that, because there are a handful of similarities that are found throughout all cultures, your own personal god is behind it all. If your God, or any god, was behind it all and deliberately made us all the same then we would all be in agreeance as to whom should receive charity, our ideas of family would not be changed (and we would all still live together with, or within very close proximitey to, what we in the West call "distant" family rather than sending everyone on their own separate way), and the cases for objective morality would be strong rather than weak.
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
Good point. Thanks!
Yes, of course. I am certainly not that far along in my path, although I have been through several lives - no, I won't defend or explain that. But I believe we all start as a young soul placed here to learn. That is how I view things.
I disagree Shadow. I think that God is not as you view this. I get from your post that you think God should have had a hand in our development throughout the ages. I don't see God this way. Some faiths do, of course, and that is a view I don't hold. I do believe that our differences in how we all view God has created confusion as to what God is and how we are to understand that concept. As a NA, our view of family is more like that of many ages ago. I would never place my mother in a home, for example, as she never put her mother in one. For us, family is all the extended and the close members whom all take care of each other. No, we don;t live in the same home but we all live within about 10 miles radius. We would drop everything in a heart beat to help each other, literally. I tend to agree with the poster you disagreed with.
dogfishparisi
Member
Human beings are born with an 'innate morality'. It is altered- or finely tuned- according to environmental and cultural factors. Many who travel a path of faith testify to a renewed sense of unity between the heart and mind. I've often heard it described as "an end to the self betrayal". Maybe this 'innate morality' once skewed disallows us to see each others perspectives as valid- because we cannot relate?