"Why Is It That Atheists Don't Believe In God?"

[Shantanu]

So you are God in human form and became God and are checking your theories with yourself?

I may have been delusional when I wrote that because overnight I did not get confirmation from God that I am God in human form living infallibly and perfectly to carry out my dharmic actions.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No they don't.LOL. People don't want to be cheated on or murdered or lied to or stolen from. So they make rules against it. Long before any religions were invented. Then they take those rules and put them in religion and the Ten Commandments. Then they play on your survival instinct and say there's a god who can give you eternal happy life if you keep the rules and send you to hell if you don't. Social engineering at its best.

Ok. Then let’s begin with the saying ‘love thy neighbour as thyself’ (Matt 22:39) spoken by Jesus.

Your origin please if as you say ‘people’ made it up before Jesus. Which people? Who? When? Exactly the same statement?

 

[ArtieE]

Ok. Then let’s begin with the saying ‘love thy neighbour as thyself’ (Matt 22:39) spoken by Jesus.

Your origin please if as you say ‘people’ made it up before Jesus. Which people? Who? When? Exactly the same statement?

When people started to live in communities certain behaviors were beneficial for the well-being and survival of the community and the people in it and some were detrimental. Of course "loving your neighbor" is more beneficial than "hating your neighbor". "Loving your neighbor" leads to cooperation and increased chances of well-being and survival for all. "Hating your neighbor" doesn't. Anybody with an ounce of intelligence understands that. No god needed. So no wonder if some intelligent persons, like Jesus maybe, said "love thy neighbour as thyself". He could just have continued: "Because if you want to live long and happy lives it's much better than hating your neighbour which only has negative consequences for yourself and your communities." And then add some god belief to drive the point home and give people added incentive. Did you really think that we atheists "love our neighbors" because Jesus said so? Our reason goes all the way back to the dawn of civilization and the first communities. I do it because it's beneficial for my community and all the people in it including myself.

None of my moral values are based on religions or Holy Books. It's the other way around. The Ten Commandments are based on what I base my morality on. The Ten Commandments says you shouldn't cheat or lie or steal or murder. All these things are detrimental to the well-being and survival of the community and the people in it and myself. I don't need a Holy Book to tell me that. I wouldn't do those things even if I'd never heard of the Ten Commandments.

 

[loverofhumanity]

When people started to live in communities certain behaviors were beneficial for the well-being and survival of the community and the people in it and some were detrimental. Of course "loving your neighbor" is more beneficial than "hating your neighbor". "Loving your neighbor" leads to cooperation and increased chances of well-being and survival for all. "Hating your neighbor" doesn't. Anybody with an ounce of intelligence understands that. No god needed. So no wonder if some intelligent persons, like Jesus maybe, said "love thy neighbour as thyself". He could just have continued: "Because if you want to live long and happy lives it's much better than hating your neighbour which only has negative consequences for yourself and your communities." And then add some god belief to drive the point home and give people added incentive. Did you really think that we atheists "love our neighbors" because Jesus said so? Our reason goes all the way back to the dawn of civilization and the first communities. I do it because it's beneficial for my community and all the people in it including myself.

None of my moral values are based on religions or Holy Books. It's the other way around. The Ten Commandments are based on what I base my morality on. The Ten Commandments says you shouldn't cheat or lie or steal or murder. All these things are detrimental to the well-being and survival of the community and the people in it and myself. I don't need a Holy Book to tell me that. I wouldn't do those things even if I'd never heard of the Ten Commandments.

So you agree the law revealed by Jesus to love thy neighbour is of benefit to all of us however you cannot cite any other instance of this teaching being used and promoted or founded by anyone else apart from Jesus?

Just because one does not believe in Jesus or God does not mean that this teaching did not originate from them. Humanists have simply taken what they like and used that but left behind what they don’t agree with yet still historical records show Jesus was the One Who taught & promoted loving thy neighbour which later became adopted even by atheists and humanists.

Let’s be fair and honest and acknowledge that the teaching of love thy neighbour originated with Jesus otherwise please cite another specific source like I have done.

 

[Vinayaka]

Let’s be fair and honest and acknowledge that the teaching of love thy neighbour originated with Jesus otherwise please cite another specific source like I have done.

The Bhagavad Gita, the Tirukkural, and many more dharmic scriptures containing such wisdom existed long before Christ, assuming he in fact existed at all.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

What's is it that you think I do not understand?

I do not think you understand the contradictions in what you assert. Or perhaps I might be better to say I don't think you can see the contradictions.

But I put it to you this way: if you can believe contradictory things at the same time, then you do not fully understand what you really believe. And I think that there are many religious believers out there who suffer from the same thing. I give you, for example, your notion that the rudder cannot move the ship. In fact, it can, in precisely the same way that a fish tail can impel the fish forward, as well as control the direction in which it moves.

I recognize that you are not Christian, but let me give another example of the kind of contradiction that convinces me that most believers only "believe they believe," rather than believe as an essential part of their being. I begin by telling you that I believe, really believe, that a red burner on the top of my stove tells me that if I put my hand on it, I will burn myself horribly. Nothing, short of violent intervention by another person, could make me put my hand there. I really believe that to the bottom of my being. And then there are the Christians who think they believe that Christ taught them to love others as He loved them. And then they go on to hate all kinds of people for all kinds of things. They are lying to themselves. They only "believe they believe." They think they believe in this Christ, and then they put their hand on the red hot burner anyway.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

So s they say, "Let the dead bury the dead".

And you exemplify that wonderfully!

I find the world around me full or wonder and mystery that begs to be explored, it excites my soul and gives me a zest for life. But you are so dead inside you won't even open the door to see anything outside of your tiny closed minded world.

Wow, how is it you are able to get me so completely wrong, and with such conviction?!!? And then, rather rudely, I think, accuse of me of having a "tiny closed" mind.

At seventy, I have more zest for life, and more curiosity, and more energy for continuous learning, than anyone I know. I read voraciously, I explore when I find something I've never seen before, or find hard to understand. The one thing I don't do is accept magical explanations for things that I can't explain, and then suppose I must now know everything there is to know.

So tell me how you "explore," when you found it expedient to accuse me before even asking me? I think that makes you just a touch less than completely honest with yourself.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Bhagavad Gita, the Tirukkural, and many more dharmic scriptures containing such wisdom existed long before Christ, assuming he in fact existed at all.

My argument is that all these virtues/teachings come from God. Jesus was just one example provided as love thy neighbour is so well known. The Holy Books you mentioned all support belief in a God. Their entire dialogue matter of fact revolves around there being a Supreme Being.

So you are in fact using sacred scriptures to prove humanistic views? Which is a contradiction within itself and a clear admission that such virtues have always originated from God and His Prophets no matter which religion.

Bhagavad-Gita literally means ‘Song of God’. So not believing in God yet using the Song of God is only confirming in your own words that principles embraced by humanists and atheists originated in one or more religions which you yourself cite.

Whichever virtue you believe in there’s absolute proof i believe, its origins can be traced back to one religion or another as you have so astutely shown by using religious texts to support your argument.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Bhagavad Gita, the Tirukkural, and many more dharmic scriptures containing such wisdom existed long before Christ, assuming he in fact existed at all.

Yes definitely. I just used Jesus as the example in this case as He promoted the commandment specifically to love thy neighbour. All religions promote love. My argument is that I believe that all truth and virtue originates from the Supreme Being not us.

 

[Vinayaka]

My argument is that all these virtues/teachings come from God. Jesus was just one example provided as love thy neighbour is so well known. The Holy Books you mentioned all support belief in a God. Their entire dialogue matter of fact revolves around there being a Supreme Being.

So you are in fact using sacred scriptures to prove humanistic views? Which is a contradiction within itself and a clear admission that such virtues have always originated from God and His Prophets no matter which religion.

Bhagavad-Gita literally means ‘Song of God’. So not believing in God yet using the Song of God is only confirming in your own words that principles embraced by humanists and atheists originated in one or more religions which you yourself cite.

Whichever virtue you believe in there’s absolute proof i believe, its origins can be traced back to one religion or another as you have so astutely shown by using religious texts to support your argument.

You changed your argument for coming from Jesus to coming from God. How convenient.

Atheistic, or egalitarian hunting and gathering groups also had values, often as a method of keeping some sort of order within the small group. Killing another member of the group wasn't to their advantage, as the individual needed the group. Perhaps you could read some anthropology to see this. People have conscience, and it doesn't need God. I was an atheist at one time myself. I knew enough not to steal from others. It was common sense, not God.

 

[Willamena]

My argument is that all these virtues/teachings come from God. Jesus was just one example provided as love thy neighbour is so well known. The Holy Books you mentioned all support belief in a God. Their entire dialogue matter of fact revolves around there being a Supreme Being.

So you are in fact using sacred scriptures to prove humanistic views? Which is a contradiction within itself and a clear admission that such virtues have always originated from God and His Prophets no matter which religion.

Bhagavad-Gita literally means ‘Song of God’. So not believing in God yet using the Song of God is only confirming in your own words that principles embraced by humanists and atheists originated in one or more religions which you yourself cite.

Whichever virtue you believe in there’s absolute proof i believe, its origins can be traced back to one religion or another as you have so astutely shown by using religious texts to support your argument.

Humanism also originated from God.

 

[lukethethird]

Humanism also originated from God.

Not on this thread.

 

[Trailblazer]

People have conscience, and it doesn't need God. I was an atheist at one time myself. I knew enough not to steal from others. It was common sense, not God.

Some people have a conscience and some don't. That is the problem.
Fear of God is a strong motivator.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You changed your argument for coming from Jesus to coming from God. How convenient.

Atheistic, or egalitarian hunting and gathering groups also had values, often as a method of keeping some sort of order within the small group. Killing another member of the group wasn't to their advantage, as the individual needed the group. Perhaps you could read some anthropology to see this. People have conscience, and it doesn't need God. I was an atheist at one time myself. I knew enough not to steal from others. It was common sense, not God.

Jesus spoke for God in my view so His Words were God’s Words spoken through Him.

I believe that traditions handed down to us in our childhood by our parents and relatives mostly define who we are.

Can anyone honestly claim his knowledge is innate when it can very easily be proven to have been handed down by our forefathers and ancestors.

Our concept of right and wrong, good and bad, moral or immoral can always be traced back to one Educator or another such as the Prophets and Manifestations of God.

So many while claiming they don’t need religion or God still use God’s laws, teachings, virtues and counsels in their lives because life cannot co- exist without them whether their true origin is acknowledged or not.

 

[Vinayaka]

Some people have a conscience and some don't. That is the problem.
Fear of God is a strong motivator.

And some people who believe in God strongly are adharmic. Some pedophiles claim to be God-fearing people.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Humanism also originated from God.

Agreed.

 

[Vinayaka]

I believe that traditions handed down to us in our childhood by our parents and relatives mostly define who we are.

My father was a staunch atheist. I'm a staunch Hindu. You were born into a Baha'i family?

 

[Trailblazer]

And some people who believe in God strongly are adharmic. Some pedophiles claim to be God-fearing people.

I said that fear of God is a strong motivator.
Belief in God might not be a motivator at all.
What people claim is not necessarily what is in their heart.

 

[loverofhumanity]

And some people who believe in God strongly are adharmic. Some pedophiles claim to be God-fearing people.

Are we speaking about words or the real sentiment here?

A truly God fearing person will never do these things although a person ‘calling’ themselves God fearing is capable of the worst things just as a terror strike may call himself a Muslim but a true Muslim in deeds is at peace with all and harms no one.

 

[Trailblazer]

I do not think you understand the contradictions in what you assert. Or perhaps I might be better to say I don't think you can see the contradictions.

But I put it to you this way: if you can believe contradictory things at the same time, then you do not fully understand what you really believe. And I think that there are many religious believers out there who suffer from the same thing. I give you, for example, your notion that the rudder cannot move the ship. In fact, it can, in precisely the same way that a fish tail can impel the fish forward, as well as control the direction in which it moves.

That is not an example of a belief of mine. The author of that passage was simply using some commonly understood analogies, they were not intended to be religious truths or "Boating 101."

I recognize that you are not Christian, but let me give another example of the kind of contradiction that convinces me that most believers only "believe they believe," rather than believe as an essential part of their being. I begin by telling you that I believe, really believe, that a red burner on the top of my stove tells me that if I put my hand on it, I will burn myself horribly. Nothing, short of violent intervention by another person, could make me put my hand there. I really believe that to the bottom of my being. And then there are the Christians who think they believe that Christ taught them to love others as He loved them. And then they go on to hate all kinds of people for all kinds of things. They are lying to themselves. They only "believe they believe." They think they believe in this Christ, and then they put their hand on the red hot burner anyway.

It is not that the Christians do not believe that teaching, it is that they do not follow that teaching. Do you understand the difference?