Why is it tought to change our minds, even when we know we are wrong?

[Mr Spinkles]

We all have trouble changing our minds, even when our reasoning is destroyed by others, or we learn new facts that seem to decimate our assumptions. Usually a significant change of opinion or worldview takes time even after we realize we are wrong. But why?

I think this is yet another fact about ourselves that indicates our minds really are physical things. Our thoughts really are constrained by the connections among physical neurons. And those connections can't be broken and re-formed in an instant, any more than you can wipe out your hard drive or patch some software in an instant. It would be unphysical if that happened.

And of course this means we can't be too hard on people if they seem stubborn in their beliefs, even when their reasoning/evidence is completely shattered in front of them....they might not be stubborn, it's just their brains are not physically capable of re-wiring some highly reinforced circuits in an instant.

Is that partly why a gentle touch is more constructive?

What do you think?

 

[Seven]

This article is from another thread, and sheds some light on why people tend to cling to their beliefs.

Is that partly why a gentle touch is more constructive?

I think so. Even if your right about something it may still be a good idea to back off a bit.

 

[linwood]

This article is from another thread, and sheds some light on why people tend to cling to their beliefs.

I think so. Even if your right about something it may still be a good idea to back off a bit.

Cool interview, thanks!

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

In answer to the O.P. I don't know. But it really is difficult. Especially things that are fundamental to our world view. It is so much easier to rationalize and confuse things than to change ourselves. Why? I don't know. I was argued into a corner once on the topic of gay marriage. It seemed that my values were in conflict. It was one of the hardest things I've done, to try and accept gay marriage when I felt like reason and justice demanded it. I'm serious! It was difficult!

 

[Sunstone]

We all have trouble changing our minds, even when our reasoning is destroyed by others, or we learn new facts that seem to decimate our assumptions. Usually a significant change of opinion or worldview takes time even after we realize we are wrong. But why?

I think this is yet another fact about ourselves that indicates our minds really are physical things. Our thoughts really are constrained by the connections among physical neurons. And those connections can't be broken and re-formed in an instant, any more than you can wipe out your hard drive or patch some software in an instant. It would be unphysical if that happened.

And of course this means we can't be too hard on people if they seem stubborn in their beliefs, even when their reasoning/evidence is completely shattered in front of them....they might not be stubborn, it's just their brains are not physically capable of re-wiring some highly reinforced circuits in an instant.

Is that partly why a gentle touch is more constructive?

What do you think?

I'd like to believe you've hit the nail on the head, Spinks, but my neurons have not rewired themselves enough for me to do that yet. I'll check back tomorrow.

More seriously, I've noticed that changing opinions can be emotionally painful at times. I wonder why that might be the case?

Some of the best descriptions I've been able to find for that sort of thing are in Buddhism -- in discussions of attachment.

But Buddhism doesn't go into the physiology of attachment. It doesn't discuss what is going on in the brain to create the thing Buddhists know as "Attachment" or "Clingingness".

By the way, I think you're probably right, Spinks, that a rewiring needs to take place. Fascinating topic, really.

 

[Charity]

Lets face it, .......It's hard to admit your wrong, we are a prideful lot......There is a lot of pain when you have to admit your wrong....
I've always believed it is more difficult to unlearn a bad habit or something that is wrong that is is to learn correctly in the beginning....When you have done something, or learned something and you have done it that way for a long time it is difficult to admit that your way may be wrong, even when the evidence is over whelming....:cover:

 

[Mr Spinkles]

In answer to the O.P. I don't know. But it really is difficult. Especially things that are fundamental to our world view. It is so much easier to rationalize and confuse things than to change ourselves. Why? I don't know. I was argued into a corner once on the topic of gay marriage. It seemed that my values were in conflict. It was one of the hardest things I've done, to try and accept gay marriage when I felt like reason and justice demanded it. I'm serious! It was difficult!

I know how you feel...perhaps we've had similar experiences: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-debates/72877-homophobic-mindset.html#post1333988

 

[MindHunter]

I can think of a few reasons. First, we construct schemas and changing our mind would involve changing our schema (whole thing or only parts of it), which would include our view on the world, our general thoughts, how we interact socially, etc... . Second, as we learn something new, more connections among neurons are formed in the brain. As we use these connections over and over, there is a change in the amounts of white and grey matter (white being mostly myelination, grey matter being mostly cell bodies). If we use this path over and over, depending on the activites, the white matter can increase and grey matter can decrease. Changing our minds would involve inhibiting pathways, which we use so often that they are well-established. We can attempt to learn a new way of thinking and establish connections for that, however, the well-used pathway isn't fully inhibited, thus we get the two conflicting views. We've always been going with the well-established one, so go with it again. So, changing our minds means overcoming this. Third, we often undergo the Lake Wobegon effect (Lake Wobegon effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), whereby we perceive ourselves as better than the average, usually academically or in self-esteem. Changing our minds could involve changing our self-esteem, which would cause anxiety. Typically, humans adhere to Occam's Razor (if there are 2 options for 1 thing, the simpler is usually correct), and in this case, it would be keeping our schema the way it is.

 

[Willamena]

We all have trouble changing our minds, even when our reasoning is destroyed by others, or we learn new facts that seem to decimate our assumptions.

Hold; I'm curious. You're talking about those other people, not you --right? Or me.

Just so we're clear, it's them.

Usually a significant change of opinion or worldview takes time even after we realize we are wrong. But why?

I don't know why they do that... those people. Do you think maybe they haven't truly realized how wrong they are?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Hold; I'm curious. You're talking about those other people, not you --right? Or me.

Just so we're clear, it's them.


I don't know why they do that... those people. Do you think maybe they haven't truly realized how wrong they are?

LOL, no Willamena you've got me all wrong. I definitely meant to include myself....especially myself!

I used to be something of a puritan, conservative, pro-American, Bush-voting Christian. I thought homosexuality was a choice. I thought sex before marriage and divorce were grave sins. There wasn't a doubt in my mind Iraq had WMD. I've re-evaluated my views and arrived at very different conclusions over the years.....but it took time. Even when my assumptions were shattered by facts right in front of me, I couldn't change my mind instantly.....it had to sink in.

If you had asked me, when I was a senior in high school, a series of simple questions about God, Jesus, the history of Christianity, whether NT or OT morality was right or wrong, etc., I would have answered them more or less the way I answer them today. But my answers would have sounded more like forced confessions. And I would have still said I was a believer. You would ask "Why?" And my reply would have been, "I don't know. I just still believe it." It took time before I could answer, "No, I don't believe it."

Similar processes took place as I discovered the WMD in Iraq were not quite as prolific as anticipated....

The reason I started this thread was because I've observed this in myself....this inability to change one's mind instantly, even when you realize you're wrong. I've made a conscious effort to improve....with what success I can't be sure.

 

[Copernicus]

I think of every proposition as having two contradictory advocates in the mind--pro and con. The mind decides which side of the argument wins the debate, and suppresses the other side. To actually hold a belief is to suppress the negation of the winning side. When there appears to be no clear winner, the mind is in a state of confusion. The battle wages back and forth. Strength of conviction comes when one side wins almost all of the debates all of the time. So every belief involves a contest, with the loser being a more or less strong contender. Strong belief is not a matter of winning every internal debate, but of winning a continually held debating tournament. So it takes time to tally up all the scores, especially when there are a lot of points to debate.

 

[jrbogie]

i've never been wrong of course, but i changed mates from a lovely blond to a stunning brunette.

 

[sandandfoam]

We all have trouble changing our minds, even when our reasoning is destroyed by others, or we learn new facts that seem to decimate our assumptions. Usually a significant change of opinion or worldview takes time even after we realize we are wrong. But why?

My belief is that we have trouble changing our minds because the conscious mind is not the repository of what we 'know', the unconscious mind is.

 

[PureX]

I agree with several of the ideas posted. I do think it often takes a little persistent practice to establish new neuro-pathways in the brain, that correspond to a new way of thinking about something. I also think that many of our thoughts/ideas are inter-related, and so when one intellectual knot becomes untied it requires us to untie and retie a number of others as well, because they're all connected. I also think that ego plays a big role, in that it naturally intends to protect us from any form of dissolution, right or wrong.

 

[invisible chzbrgr]

"Rarely do any of us sit down before a table of facts, weigh them pro and con, and choose the most logical and rational belief, regardless of what we previously believed. Instead, the facts of the world come to us through the colored filters of the theories, hypotheses, hunches, biases, and prejudices we have accumulated through our lifetime. We then sort through the body of data and select those most confirming what we already believe, and ignore or rationalize away those that are disconfirming.

All of us do this, of course, but smart people are better at it through both talent and training." - Michael Shermer, Why People Believe Weird Things

One way or another, we come to a belief. It's very difficult to shake it because we have all kinds of things like the certainty and confirmation and attribution biases among others, and our reason works against us in overtime sometimes to justify belief in things we otherwise would not. We will create our own double standards. It happens to everyone.

 

[Willamena]

LOL, no Willamena you've got me all wrong. I definitely meant to include myself....especially myself!

Alright then; Stephen Colbert and I apologize.

 

[j76]

knowing and caring that you're wrong are different things