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Why is lucifer considered evil

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
you don't have to say why are you when your the one who does not want to, not very bright.

I just find it strange that we would spend time debating a now properly translated bit of scripture...

Of course, I can discuss the topic at hand. Lucifer is considered evil because the people that claim Lucifer exists/existed want him to be evil. Alternative character interpretation is only done in this case to diminish the arguments of the other side on an already faulty debate.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
2 Peter 1:19

New King James Version:
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;​

Latin Vulgate translation:

19 et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris​

Compare Numbers 24:17 and Revelation 22:16
 

Awoon

Well-Known Member
he isnt interested in followers

He's interested in proving that Gods creations are nothing. His enmity is with God and we are merely pawns in his sick game.


You must have an intimate relationship with him to know that.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
he isnt interested in followers

He's interested in proving that Gods creations are nothing. His enmity is with God and we are merely pawns in his sick game.

Last I heard God was the one calling us filthy, worthless sinners who need to repent.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
2 Peter 1:19

New King James Version:
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;​

Latin Vulgate translation:

19 et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris​

Compare Numbers 24:17 and Revelation 22:16

Here's a link where you can compare both translations side by side for the entire chapter:
2 peter 1 VULGATE;NKJV - Simon Petrus servus et apostolus Iesu - Bible Gateway
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
he isnt interested in followers

He's interested in proving that Gods creations are nothing. His enmity is with God and we are merely pawns in his sick game.

But if God's creations (us) do not consider ourselves as nothing wouldn't this make your statement an impossibility? Also, if you accept the premise that a "Satan" exists, wouldn't a following of Satan simply be an exercise of free will?
 

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
Lucifer wasn't even considered an angel, nor was his name used at all by Christians, until the formation of the Holy Roman Empire. Originally, the Lucifer of Roman mythology was a minor god who was the herald of the sun, and had no function beyond that. He is barely mentioned at all except in poetry, most notably in Ovid's "Metamorphoses". Early Christians incorporated many aspects of Roman mythology into their own in an effort to convert more Romans to their cause, thus the Lucifer/Satan myth was born. Christianity is no stranger to mimicking earlier pagan religions, as evidenced by the Noah's ark story's parallels to the epic of Gilgamesh's flood story, and Jesus, the sun-based "messiah" whose story mirrors those of so many "heathen" demigods before him.
 
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Lucifer is only mentioned once in Ezekiel, in a strange way.

Satan, on the other hand, seems to be God's servant. His name means "the adversary," and while he is the enemy of man, nowhere in the Tanach does Satan ever oppose God.

He first appears in Numbers, where it says,

"But God's anger was kindled because he went, and the angel of YHWH took his stand in the way as Satan."

Balaam doesn't see the angel/Satan, but the donkey does and stops. Balaam hits her three times, and God "opened the mouth" of the donkey, which essentially told him that he was an idiot. Then Balaam suddenly sees the angel, who says:

"Why have you struck your donkey these three times? Look, I came out to oppose you because your way is peverse before me. The donkey saw me and turned away from me these three times. If she had not turned away, believe me; I would have killed you and let her live."

Then Balaam said to the angel of YHWH, "I have sinned...So if it is evil to you, I will go back."

So Satan did nothing bad there; he acted in accordance with God's anger.

He then appears in Job:

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before YHWH, and Satan also came among them.

YHWH said to Satan, "From where have you come?"

Satan answered YHWH and said, "From going place to place on the earth, and walking up and down on it.

YHWH said to Satan, "Have you seen my servent Job, that there is no one like him, a blameless and upright man?"

In recap, YHWH asks Satan where he's been. He replied that he'd been on the earth for some time now. YHWH asked him if he'd seen Job. I doubt this was casual conversation; YHWH clearly asked this for a reason.

Satan goes on to say, "Does Job fear God for no reason? Haven't you put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the works of his hands, and his possessions have grown in the land. But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face."

So YHWH answered Satan, "As you wish; all that he has is in your hands. Only against Job himself do not stretch out your hand."

And Satan doesn't. Job passes the test, and Satan goes back to God for permission to sicken Job.

Why would he ask for permission? If he hates God, why would he go into his presence? Why would he warn a man who had made God angry? Why was God's second question if Satan saw Job?

It seems like Satan takes the role of prosecutor in the heavenly court. He also doesn't seem to hate people; the wording of Numbers makes it seem like Satan visited Balaam of his own will to warn Balaam that he had made YHWH angry; nowhere is it written that God sent Satan then.
 

One4Truth

New Member
Caladan, perhaps the process of how a highly regarded angel 'fell' from a righteous perfect start to the extent he did is explained in the book of James: "Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings for death."
 

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
Caladan, perhaps the process of how a highly regarded angel 'fell' from a righteous perfect start to the extent he did is explained in the book of James: "Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings for death."

As far as the fallen angel story, I woul refer you to post #30 on this thread.
 
Apparently. You're worried about Satan wanting to enslave our souls, the problem is the Christian God is the one attempting to do
so.

How is it enslavement if it's voluntary?

1) I wouldn't want to surrender my soul to the Abrahamic god, as I think he's about as moral as Hitler, seeing as he created Hitler...

2) Heaven sounds boring

Hitler had free will. So did Gandhi and MLK, for that matter. And all three of them were created indirectly—not like Adam.
 
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