Why Is Paganism Rising?

[Dr Contrast]

I am not sure if this is the best place to ask this question or not. If I am not in the right place, my apologies in advance!

I am doing some research on paganism and found this video on YouTube.

I would like to know to what extend you agree with the claims made in this video.

Thanks

 

[timothy1027]

I watched the "Pagan..." video. Very well done. I think this is a good example of the decline of "mainstream" religions such as Christianity. Apparently many people are seeking alternatives. I learned in 12-Step programs to think "outside the box" of Christianity. This helped me to STOP using destructive drugs. I've been succeeding with recovery from addiction since 1996 thanks to 12-Step and SMART recovery programs NOT from "mainstream" religions.

I am not sure if this is the best place to ask this question or not. If I am not in the right place, my apologies in advance!

I am doing some research on paganism and found this video on YouTube.

I would like to know to what extend you agree with the claims made in this video.

Thanks

 

[SalixIncendium]

As one who once identified as Neo-Pagan and Wiccan, I will say the assessment of Paganism in the video is accurate.

 

[1213]

Why Is Paganism Rising?

Could it be that it is rising, because it is a message people like to hear?

 

[ChristineM]

This sounds like a thread for @The Hammer .

My own view as not religious is that it holds a message that many people want to hear

 

[Debater Slayer]

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I suspect that some of it is affection. Much, however, strikes me as a reincarnation of the New Age phase of the 70's but, this time, more heavily influenced by environmentalism.

 

[anna.]

I rarely watch YouTube videos on any subject but sometimes will if they're short. It was an interesting and informative video and it was helpful to get an imprimatur from @SalixIncendium.

One thing I was struck by - it's a very Eurocentric video, visually. If you separate the visuals from the narration, it seems pagans look overwhelmingly like this:

When if you consider the global application of paganism, it can't possibly be the case. Is paganism as idealized in this video a mostly young and white and female thing? Does the video skew that direction unintentionally, and are there pagans here at RF who can tell me differently from their own personal experience?

 

[The Hammer]

I am not sure if this is the best place to ask this question or not. If I am not in the right place, my apologies in advance!

I am doing some research on paganism and found this video on YouTube.

I would like to know to what extend you agree with the claims made in this video.

Thanks

As a long term Pagan, I agree with the claims in this video. It's pretty accurate, and covers the roots, trunk, and branches of the issue well.

 

[The Hammer]

I suspect that some of it is affection. Much, however, strikes me as a reincarnation of the New Age phase of the 70's but, this time, more heavily influenced by environmentalism.

That's a part of it I'm sure. But the modern neopagan movement started with the Druid revival in the 1800s, so it's nothing new.

Edit: "In the early 18th century, interest in Druidism underwent a revival, primarily as a result of the less-than-noble efforts of one man, Edward Williams, or, Iolo Morganwyg as he was known, who claimed to have discovered an ancient Welsh book of Druidic knowledge."

 

[Quintessence]

That's a part of it I'm sure. But the modern neopagan movement started with the Druid revival in the 1800s, so it's nothing new.

Edit: "In the early 18th century, interest in Druidism underwent a revival, primarily as a result of the less-than-noble efforts of one man, Edward Williams, or, Iolo Morganwyg as he was known, who claimed to have discovered an ancient Welsh book of Druidic knowledge."

Yeah, back when I was doing more scholarly reading in Pagan studies, the roots of contemporary Paganism are often traced back to Romanticism. That is, the contemporary Pagan movement has roots as a reaction against Enlightenment values - a mechanistic, impersonal universe for example - and instead valuing raw life experience, emotion, and whimsy. Williams was around at that same time of Romanticism flourishing.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I didn't watch the video, but there are a slew of reasons, I think:

- It's not mainstream and is, even now, controversial. This is attractive.
- People want connections with nature, and Paganism provides this.
- It's open to interpretation and does not require a strict dogmatism (though that's also available for those who want it).
-It provides a connection to indigenous cultures, including Pre-Christian European.
- It's a mostly accepting community. There are judgy Pagans, but for the most part there's a kind of live and let live attitude.
- There's a mystique to it that you don't necessarily get with other mainstream religions.
- "Hooray, hooray! The first of May! Outdoor...er, activities start today!" ;-)

 

[Dr Contrast]

I can relate to most of the reasons mentioned here

 

[Heyo]

- "Hooray, hooray! The first of May! Outdoor...er, activities start today!" ;-)

 

[Heyo]

I am not sure if this is the best place to ask this question or not. If I am not in the right place, my apologies in advance!

I am doing some research on paganism and found this video on YouTube.

I would like to know to what extend you agree with the claims made in this video.

Thanks

Everything I learned about and you need to know about paganism:

https://imgur.com/a/BIM9E

 

[anna.]

I rarely watch YouTube videos on any subject but sometimes will if they're short. It was an interesting and informative video and it was helpful to get an imprimatur from @SalixIncendium.

One thing I was struck by - it's a very Eurocentric video, visually. If you separate the visuals from the narration, it seems pagans look overwhelmingly like this:

View attachment 79043

When if you consider the global application of paganism, it can't possibly be the case. Is paganism as idealized in this video a mostly young and white and female thing? Does the video skew that direction unintentionally, and are there pagans here at RF who can tell me differently from their own personal experience?

Okay, well, I guess I'll reply to myself, since I'm still struck by the white female romanticism portrayed in the video. Not saying the portrayal is intentional for racist purposes but was thought-provoking for me nonetheless.
Anyway. It seems there actually is a problem with white nationalists/supremacists/separatists co-opting existing inherently non-racist pagan beliefs and practices, at times using revisionist history to make pagan beliefs and practices more aligned to their racist ideology. Pagans are realizing this is happening and working to keep at bay those who would adapt their beliefs for racist purposes. There are quite a few articles out there, here's one:

Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

The growing presence of racists in American Pagan communities threatens to tear the faith apart.

www.vice.com

 

[JustGeorge]

Okay, well, I guess I'll reply to myself, since I'm still struck by the white female romanticism portrayed in the video. Not saying the portrayal is intentional for racist purposes but was thought-provoking for me nonetheless.
Anyway. It seems there actually is a problem with white nationalists/supremacists/separatists co-opting existing inherently non-racist pagan beliefs and practices, at times using revisionist history to make pagan beliefs and practices more aligned to their racist ideology. Pagans are realizing this is happening and working to keep at bay those who would adapt their beliefs for racist purposes. There are quite a few articles out there, here's one:

Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

The growing presence of racists in American Pagan communities threatens to tear the faith apart.

www.vice.com

I know it exists out there, but I've never met anyone that falls into this category.

I feel its also worth noting that Pagan is a blanket term. The Asatru community has sometimes had a problem with this(and from all the followers I've met, are diligently working to combat such associations), but I have never heard of it bein a problem in Druid circles. There are some smaller branches of Paganism that are gaining footing that might seem exclusionary on the outside, but if you look at it a little deeper, you'll see they're more location based and difficult to study abroad. Its not that they're trying to exclude anyone; you're just up against a language and location barrier.

Another factor to take in when considering 'whiteness' in the video(which I didn't watch), is many indigenous or ethnic traditions do not identify themselves as Pagan. They tend to have more specific names for the traditions they're following and use that in favor of the more general 'Pagan'.

 

[Heyo]

Okay, well, I guess I'll reply to myself, since I'm still struck by the white female romanticism portrayed in the video. Not saying the portrayal is intentional for racist purposes but was thought-provoking for me nonetheless.
Anyway. It seems there actually is a problem with white nationalists/supremacists/separatists co-opting existing inherently non-racist pagan beliefs and practices, at times using revisionist history to make pagan beliefs and practices more aligned to their racist ideology. Pagans are realizing this is happening and working to keep at bay those who would adapt their beliefs for racist purposes. There are quite a few articles out there, here's one:

Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

The growing presence of racists in American Pagan communities threatens to tear the faith apart.

www.vice.com

We have (had? didn't hear from them in quite a time) those over here in Germany. Maybe they thought for a while that it belongs to the racist "Germanic" tradition. But they have to face that 1. Germany is becoming more and more secular and a religion isn't what attracts or keeps members and 2. Asatru don't like to be appropriated by fascists, not even the racist ones.

 

[anna.]

I know it exists out there, but I've never met anyone that falls into this category.

I feel its also worth noting that Pagan is a blanket term. The Asatru community has sometimes had a problem with this(and from all the followers I've met, are diligently working to combat such associations), but I have never heard of it bein a problem in Druid circles. There are some smaller branches of Paganism that are gaining footing that might seem exclusionary on the outside, but if you look at it a little deeper, you'll see they're more location based and difficult to study abroad. Its not that they're trying to exclude anyone; you're just up against a language and location barrier.

Another factor to take in when considering 'whiteness' in the video(which I didn't watch), is many indigenous or ethnic traditions do not identify themselves as Pagan. They tend to have more specific names for the traditions they're following and use that in favor of the more general 'Pagan'.

Yes, I tried to make it clear that white supremacists were appropriating, or co-opting, paganism (in whatever specific branches are applicable) for the white supremacists'/nationalists' own racist (and I'll add nationalist) purposes. But paganism by any branch (sorry, I don't know all the right terminology) spans the globe, across all cultural demographics, which is why the video is so jarring with its romantically posed white females.

Why did that strike me so? Because it reminded me of several videos I've seen elsewhere posted by those whose argument was basically
"it's okay to be white" and the videos were montages of beautiful white women or children or families drenched in happy tranquility and sunshine that apparently stemmed (via the intended implicit bias) from their happiness at being white.

 

[Callisto]

Okay, well, I guess I'll reply to myself, since I'm still struck by the white female romanticism portrayed in the video. Not saying the portrayal is intentional for racist purposes but was thought-provoking for me nonetheless.
Anyway. It seems there actually is a problem with white nationalists/supremacists/separatists co-opting existing inherently non-racist pagan beliefs and practices, at times using revisionist history to make pagan beliefs and practices more aligned to their racist ideology. Pagans are realizing this is happening and working to keep at bay those who would adapt their beliefs for racist purposes. There are quite a few articles out there, here's one:

Racists Are Threatening to Take Over Paganism

The growing presence of racists in American Pagan communities threatens to tear the faith apart.

www.vice.com

It partly has to do with the fact that "Neopagan" and "pagan" are often used interchangeably and the meanings specific to each one get muddled, which can be incorrect depending on the context. When Neopagans are talking among themselves, it's OK to use them interchangeably because everyone knows what's meant and the discussion is on those modern-day practices that developed largely in the 20th century. But it does blur things when Neopagans and mainstream interact as it gets misconstrued with the mainstream term "pagan" as in what Abrahamic monotheists began referring to ancient/cultural traditions and led to the notion that "pagan = anything not Abrahamic" - which disregards the fact that ancient/cultural traditions didn't and don't self-identify as "pagan". Neopaganism is also NOT a continuation of ancient/cultural traditions. Some are reconstructions and revivals of ancient polytheistic traditions but most are, at best, loosely inspired by ancient polytheism but more directly influenced by Wicca and earlier Romanticism and Western esotericism.

Neopaganism is Eurocentric in origin and remained so for many decades with Greco-Roman, Egyptian, Celtic, and Germanic polytheism being the primary inspirational sources. In the 1980s & '90s there was a mainstream pop culture fad where Celtic was the in thing, with everything from TV shows like Robin Of Sherwood, music groups like Clannad, Capercaillie, Enya, and Loreena McKennitt among others were huge and the whole Riverdance craze was akin to Hamilton at its peak. The Neopagan scene reflected this fad and there was a noticeable shift from the more hippie ways dominant in the 1960s and '70s to "everyone" dressing like Renn Faire players, taking a "Celtic sounding" pagan/magical name and claiming some Celtic connection in one's practice. This is pretty much when Ecletics, the largest visible segment and the majority of which borrow from Wicca, began claiming "Wicca is Celtic" and set the Eurocentric image you're talking about. Eclecticism is still most people's introduction to Neopaganism and that initial influence often lingers even when people move on to something else. So it's often less obvious there were and are many POC Neopagans in non-Celtic-derived practices and traditions.