Why Islam makes more sense conceptually of all the Abrahamic faiths

[LuisDantas]

I believe God is immutable. It is man that changes.

That doesn't really address what I said, though.

Even taking for granted that there is a God and that it is immutable, it is still true that the environment changes.

That results in changes to our possibilities for dealing with each other and there must logically be consequences in religion and worship.

 

[Spiderman]

Having derived yourself from the Christian faith you are probably aware that Jesus never causes the death of a single person. It is recorded in the New Testament, however, that he did intervene to prevent the stoning of a woman accused of adultery. He told those gathered about her, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." None of them were without sin and so the crowd dispersed. And to the woman he said, "Go, and sin no more."

Christianity teaches that no man or woman is without sin, all Christians know this. So the message is clear, it is not permissible to execute any person. The only Being without sin is God, and so God alone may pass such a judgement. Furthermore, Jesus is never associated with the government (whereas Mohammad was the government) which is why the separation of church and state is possible in a Christian land (and is next to impossible within Islam). This is the primary reason I see the West and Islam as incompatible--Islam wherever it is the dominant force leans to theocracy.

So icredibly true, and we'll said!

Im amazed an atheist would say that!

 

[Spiderman]

This post should be in the jokes section.

Islam is younger than either Christianity or Judaism, your “conceptual” B.S. aside.

Islam has been the force behind plenty of death and destruction.......did you just arrive on this planet?

This does belong in the jokes section

Someone claims he studied Islam for ten years, yet he ignores the barbaric graphic torture, bigotry, and dehumanizing of non-muslims in the Koran.

Someone says muslims are required to respect all creatures, while Muhammad was clearly a mass-murderer, who didn't respect the rights of Polytheists, atheists, or Jews, nor did he respect the rights of a prepubescent girl, to young to consent!

@Epic Beard Man you don't respond to my posts because the Qur'an and Hadiths loudly declare my claims to be true.

It bothers me to see so many claim to be for freedom, equality, and social justice, while defending bigotry, hate, Fascism, and tyranny!

Its sad!

 

[Dawnofhope]

“The inhabitants of a country life Africa are all as wandering
savages and wild animals. They lack intelligence and knowledge; all are
uncivilized; not one civilized...

This is a good example of how words can be twisted by removing context and some of the text.

Adbu’l-Baha was a tireless advocate for racial equality through word and deed.

If you take the time to read the text in its entirety it’s actually about the necessity of education of both sexes. It was written at a time when many couldn’t see the value of educating their daughters.

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/TAB/tab-625.html

 

[YmirGF]

As if anything you've ever posted was ever anything more than just a useless platitude.

My user ratings would seem to belie your unnatural anger. Besides which, I don't know of many Muslims on RF who would say that I write platitudes about Islam. Reality begs to differ.

 

[Faithofchristian]

You tell me Christian, how this makes sense?

You just proved my point, that you have no clue or idea about the bible. If you did, then you would haved known why God came down here on earth in the body of flesh of Jesus Christ.

 

[Deidre]

Well I don't think the male gender is the issue, rather the structure and how one does with power that creates the issue.

Anything that tilts towards one gender over another, is ''bad'' in my opinion. A purely matriarchal society would be just as toxic. It just seems anyways, if the majority of followers of a set religion are under the impression that women are beneath them, it would seem that their god of worship isn't genderless. Or that such a god at least ''favors'' men over women. It's not a big deal. As a woman, you get used to this type of discrimination in religious circles. lol

 

[shunyadragon]

I believe there are three members of the Trinity but only one entity taken three times.

Tritheism version of polytheism

 

[shunyadragon]

How did Muslim divines touch the text?

They simply maliciously mistranslate the text for their own purpose and publish it in anti-Baha'i literature.

 

[Spiderman]

Anything that tilts towards one gender over another, is ''bad'' in my opinion. A purely matriarchal society would be just as toxic. It just seems anyways, if the majority of followers of a set religion are under the impression that women are beneath them, it would seem that their god of worship isn't genderless. Or that such a god at least ''favors'' men over women. It's not a big deal. As a woman, you get used to this type of discrimination in religious circles. lol

Even peaceful, westernized, America Muslims, talk very highly about Saud-Arabia, their holiest site of pilgrimage, their holy land, even back when a whole gender was not allowed to drive.

In Saudi-Arabia, America's civilised Alli, if a woman went swimming in a bikini, in public, that would be a most TERRIBLE crime against men and Allah.

But the attitude there is, if she gets raped, she was "asking for it" she was an "unveiled whore".

After Sweden kindly accepted a bunch of Muslims, Sweden became the "rape capitol" of Europe.

Some of these women were not just raped but savagely beaten to a bloody pulp or killed.

Muslims who did this often did not repent, and instead insulted their innocent victims as "unveiled whores".

So, an unveiled woman is a terrible crime, but raping her is not???

That is the attitude in many muslim-majority countries.

We do not want that attitude in America!

 

[Spiderman]

Anything that tilts towards one gender over another, is ''bad'' in my opinion. A purely matriarchal society would be just as toxic. It just seems anyways, if the majority of followers of a set religion are under the impression that women are beneath them, it would seem that their god of worship isn't genderless. Or that such a god at least ''favors'' men over women. It's not a big deal. As a woman, you get used to this type of discrimination in religious circles. lol

Also, i have witnessed "peaceful Muslims" tweet about the Islamic rape of European women.

They essentially say, "they could stay home like Muslim women and they won't get raped".

At the mosque in New York, the man I was referred to, to answer my questions about Islam, didn't even let his wife drive. In America!!! And he was okay with cutting off hands and heads.

These are "peaceful law-abiding Muslims" who hate freedom and women's equality!"

The beautiful mosque with a dome and crescent was a male-only building.

Women and girls had to pray at an ugly dilapidated brick building! Does that not reak of misogyny that the free-world, and influential powerful leaders of the free-world, like Obama, glorify it!!

 

[Spiderman]

Even peaceful, westernized, America Muslims, talk very highly about Saud-Arabia, their holiest site of pilgrimage, their holy land, even back when a whole gender was not allowed to drive.

In Saudi-Arabia, America's civilised Alli, if a woman went swimming in a bikini, in public, that would be a most TERRIBLE crime against men and Allah.

But the attitude there is, if she gets raped, she was "asking for it" she was an "unveiled whore".

After Sweden kindly accepted a bunch of Muslims, Sweden became the "rape capitol" of Europe.

Some of these women were not just raped but savagely beaten to a bloody pulp or killed.

Muslims who did this often did not repent, and instead insulted their innocent victims as "unveiled whores".

So, an unveiled woman is a terrible crime, but raping her is not???

That is the attitude in many muslim-majority countries.

We do not want that attitude in America!

Also, i have witnessed "peaceful Muslims" tweet about the Islamic rape of European women.

They essentially say, "they could stay home like Muslim women and they won't get raped".

At the mosque in New York, the man I was referred to, to answer my questions about Islam, didn't even let his wife drive. In America!!! And he was okay with cutting off hands and heads.

These are "peaceful law-abiding Muslims" who hate freedom and women's equality!"

The beautiful mosque with a dome and crescent was a male-only building.

Women and girls had to pray at an ugly dilapidated brick building! Does that not reak of misogyny that the free-world, and influential powerful leaders of the free-world, like Obama, glorify it!!

What would @viole say about that?

Keep in mind, i find most repulsive verses in the Bible as well!

It was atheists like you who pointed out how ugly that tyranny is, so i no longer defend or promote the Bible!

But I'm still a man of faith who goes to daily mass. But I follow the golden rule and my conscience over any ancient text that glorifies or justifies dark-aged fascism, bigotry, and misogyny.

I only tagged you because you are a rational thinker who used to live in Sweden, which is called, "the rape capitol of Europe".

 

[shunyadragon]

I would suggest the most accurate opinion (if there is such a thing) is that the bible was a set of books written based on oral legends for the purpose of giving their immediate audience alternative stories to the most popular of the day, like how supposedly there's this book on amazon where this crazy lady tried to make a "Christian Harry Potter" story. It's so bad, from what little I've seen of it in screenshots, that she basically just substituted proper nouns and almost all the rest is just plagiarism. The bible was never meant for the entire globe in the 21st century. Look at ancient maps and you can see how far their concept of "world" went. They thought everything would be dead by now, just as we tend to see global destruction "right around the corner." The bible doesn't care about anyone but the people intended to read it, none of them being us. We can see this by the closing of the biblical canon, which makes no sense if one believes God is eternal.

Actually this is my basic assumption of the possible origin of all ancient scripture. This clearly described the human element in religion, which the individual religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam.refuse to acknowledge leaving them vulnerable to contradiction.

The view that the religion contain inspired Revelation that evolves, and the human element from the fallible human perspective.

Shouldn't the Word also be eternal? Shouldn't we still be writing books for it?

From the conflicting perspective of each individual religion this is problem, but if you acknowledge the fallible human element of scriptures, evolution of the spiritual nature of humanity, and the cultural influence in scriptures, then no, the Word should not be eternal.


I live in the US. I'm far more concerned my imaginary daughter would be attacked by rednecks raping for Jesus or something like the asinine "incel" movement, where they finally let go of religious imagery and just acknowledge they want to rape because for some reason women find them too creepy to date and it must be our fault.

 

[shunyadragon]

The Bible is actually written to God's elect and the very elect.
This is the reason people can not put things together in the bible.only God's elect and the very elect will understand the bible.

The problem remains concerning the conflicting diversity of how different Christians consider the interpretation of the 'Spirit of the Word,' which is different and conflicting with your beliefs.

Still needs more explanation concerning what is the 'elect.' and why you believe your 'interpretation is true and all others false.' What is your 'elect' source.

 

[Marsh]

It is one way of writing a traditional Muslim honorific, one often used for God.

It roughly translates to "blessed be He", or more literally, "may He be blessed and exalted".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_honorifics

Louis, thank you for the explanation.

 

[Spiderman]

Islam requires all human beings to respect each other and respect living beings and creatures.

.

I shall fix that for you. Islam requires all human beings to respect each other with some exceptions. One of those exceptions is anyone who isn't Muslim. The Qur'an says, "do not accept Jews and Christains as your friends". The Qur'an says, "Slay the Idolaters wherever you find them." Muhammad destroyed shrines and Idols sacred to Polytheists. The Qur'an contains graphic violence and torture of Muhammad's enemies. The best and true Muslim is Muhammad who did NOT in any way require human beings to respect each other, because he did and taught the opposite!

The OP was an epic fail! Again!

See, Beard Man, I have proved your statements false many times, and you give me the silent treatment, because I'm pretty sure you know I'm right, and you can't handle the truth, neither are you interested in the truth! Neither are you interested in freedom, equality, and social justice, that you so often claim to cherish.

Muhammad is considered the final prophet, and the greatest Muslim. Muhammad was an extremist who cut off many heads, and glorified the chopping off of hands and feet, torture, and crucifixion of his opponents. This can be proven in the Qur'an!

Muhammad is more like the Dictator Mussolini, who founded Fascism. Like an Islamic Theocracy, the Doctrine of Fascism was Spiritual form of government, defended Abrahamic Monotheism, attacked secularism, and Mussolini voiced disapproval of contraceptives, made swearing and blasphemy a public crime, persecuted Jews, disapproved of divorce, closed down wine-shops and places of "immorality", crushed opponents, outlawed free-speech, kept prayer in schools, and thought women should stay at home and care for their kids rather than work, and I'm betting had a dress-code for women.

Fascist Italy was very similar to Saudi-Arabia and many Islamic-majority countries today.

Muhammad was a fascist Dictator in many ways, and his policies to this day decrease the quality of life for hundreds of millions of people. Your many glorifications of Islam is not respectful to the hundreds of millions of people harmed, victimized, or brainwashed by Muhammad's version of Fascism.

I actually don't have a problem with Islam theoretically. I'm fond of Muslims praying five times a day, dressing like Nuns and monks, fasting during Ramadan, abstaining from pork or alcohol, and praying to something called Allah.

My problem isn't with Islamic Faith. I respect anyone's beliefs (that don't contain hate). So, I'd argue, my problem is not with Islamic faith, my problem is with Fascism, which is a form of government. Muhammad's Religion was okay theoretically, but Muhammad was a statesman and intolerant Dictator, who established a Fascist-like government that has ruined hundreds of millions of lives since then! That is the problem!

 

[Spiderman]

I shall fix that for you. Islam requires all human beings to respect each other with some exceptions. One of those exceptions is anyone who isn't Muslim. The Qur'an says, "do not accept Jews and Christains as your friends". The Qur'an says, "Slay the Idolaters wherever you find them." Muhammad destroyed shrines and Idols sacred to Polytheists. The Qur'an contains graphic violence and torture of Muhammad's enemies. The best and true Muslim is Muhammad who did NOT in any way require human beings to respect each other, because he did and taught the opposite!

The OP was an epic fail! Again!

See, Beard Man, I have proved your statements false many times, and you give me the silent treatment, because I'm pretty sure you know I'm right, and you can't handle the truth, neither are you interested in the truth! Neither are you interested in freedom, equality, and social justice, that you so often claim to cherish.

Muhammad is considered the final prophet, and the greatest Muslim. Muhammad was an extremist who cut off many heads, and glorified the chopping off of hands and feet, torture, and crucifixion of his opponents. This can be proven in the Qur'an!

Muhammad is more like the Dictator Mussolini, who founded Fascism. Like an Islamic Theocracy, the Doctrine of Fascism was Spiritual form of government, defended Abrahamic Monotheism, attacked secularism, and Mussolini voiced disapproval of contraceptives, made swearing and blasphemy a public crime, persecuted Jews, disapproved of divorce, closed down wine-shops and places of "immorality", crushed opponents, outlawed free-speech, kept prayer in schools, and thought women should stay at home and care for their kids rather than work, and I'm betting had a dress-code for women.

Fascist Italy was very similar to Saudi-Arabia and many Islamic-majority countries today.

Muhammad was a fascist Dictator in many ways, and his policies to this day decrease the quality of life for hundreds of millions of people. Your many glorifications of Islam is not respectful to the hundreds of millions of people harmed, victimized, or brainwashed by Muhammad's version of Fascism.

I actually don't have a problem with Islam theoretically. I'm fond of Muslims praying five times a day, dressing like Nuns and monks, fasting during Ramadan, abstaining from pork or alcohol, and praying to something called Allah.

My problem isn't with Islamic Faith. I respect anyone's beliefs (that don't contain hate). So, I'd argue, my problem is not with Islamic faith, my problem is with Fascism, which is a form of government. Muhammad's Religion was okay theoretically, but Muhammad was a statesman and intolerant Dictator, who established a Fascist-like government that has ruined hundreds of millions of lives since then! That is the problem!

Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King were not statesmen like Muhammad, and did not kill a bunch of people, raise up an army for conquest, were non-violent, peaceful, meek, humble, and peacemakers. They are acceptable Religious figures in my book.

When Religious figures become narcissistic, intolerant statesmen, or bloodthirsty cult-leaders, that is where I get strong objections!

 

[YmirGF]

This is one of the most rational pieces I have seen on Islam, and written by a non-Muslim. Lately, I have had issue with the hadith and so have others. There is a group of "Quran only" Muslims and I've found them interesting. There is more than enough irrationality to go around though. Christianity if rife with it and to a lesser extent, I feel that way about certain Jewish practices.

@Augustus always provides solid information about Islam, especially the early period.

 

[Ellen Brown]

One word of caution of the assumption of many theists is that from the scientific perspective the origins and processes that lead to the universe that we have are 'random.' This very far from the view of science in that nothing in the macro world results from a cause and effect result has any random result without cause nor recognizable pattern.

From the perspective of science the objective verifiable evidence demonstrates that every cause and effect outcome is determined by natural laws, and the range of outcomes is limited by natural law. The variation in the possible outcomes can be described by fractal math described by Chaos Theory. Like Einstein concluded in nature the dice are loaded, and the outcomes are predetermined by natural laws.

My own personal belief is that the author of the Natural Laws did not commit a random act. I think that by the time we get round to recognizing that we'll have a more rational mind.

 

[Marsh]

Why is it that many Islamics have a "Little Brother" attitude about the rest of the world?

This notion of Islam is alien to me. Can you provide some examples of Islamic governments, organizations, or Islamists that have gone out of their way to act like a big brother to non-Muslims?