Why Islam makes more sense conceptually of all the Abrahamic faiths

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Having derived yourself from the Christian faith you are probably aware that Jesus never causes the death of a single person. It is recorded in the New Testament, however, that he did intervene to prevent the stoning of a woman accused of adultery. He told those gathered about her, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." None of them were without sin and so the crowd dispersed. And to the woman he said, "Go, and sin no more."

Depends on how nitpicky you want to be. His tantrums stirred up the Romans and lots of people were killed in crackdowns. He didn't use the sword, but he made sure to tick off the people with them.

Christianity teaches that no man or woman is without sin

And yet there were righteous people all over the bible.

So the message is clear, it is not permissible to execute any person.

Except if that person needs to save the world or something?

which is why the separation of church and state is possible in a Christian land (and is next to impossible within Islam)

Do you have examples of Christian countries without Christian interference in government?

Considering its all made up by a Delusional desert Bandit and criminal gangster who molested children and had people Killed murdered Tortured and Executed

Wow. Never really read the bible in depth, have you?

Still needs more explanation concerning what is the 'elect.' and why you believe your 'interpretation is true and all others false.' What is your 'elect' source.

My opinion is: if you automatically assumed you're elect, you're probably not.

Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King were not statesmen like Muhammad, and did not kill a bunch of people, raise up an army for conquest, were non-violent, peaceful, meek, humble, and peacemakers. They are acceptable Religious figures in my book.

Jesus was an instigator. It's really the reason for his execution.

Buddha had to be convinced that women could be enlightened and even then, he wasn't 100% into it.

Ghandi was a statesman and a racist.

 

[stvdv]

I don't know how many psychopaths there are.

That's what was said "1 out of 100 people is a psychopath". I didn't know that, but checked a few sites.
So if there are 2000 million Christian, there will be 20 million Christian psychopaths. I hope they only read New Testament
Same for other religions. even 1% Atheist psychopath I guess. How many Atheists are on RF? Oops.

https://islamqa.info/en/85232
By the way Islam has a good thing [above link], if I understand well, they are advised not to:
1) watch "evil movies"; good ones are okay, just not the evil ones
2) listen "evil music"
3) read "evil books"
4) spreading "corrupt beliefs"

So when that is what they do, their minds should become very pure IMO. I follow the same and it has a positive effect I can see now.

 

[Marsh]

It is disappointing isn't it? I am fairly close to abandoning the whole business and just trying to find the intelligent Creator.

Ellen, so glad to hear it. You might want to check out Ex-Muslims of North America. They are a support group for Muslims leaving the faith. Also, Sarah Haider, one of the co-founders, gives some very interesting talks. You might enjoy listening to her. You will find her on YouTube.

 

[Ellen Brown]

That's some crazy math. 3 x 1 = 3 for most people.

Isn't there some sort of Maths rule about that? If I had an Apple and multiplied by three, wouldn't I have 4 Apples?

 

[Ellen Brown]

That's what was said "1 out of 100 people is a psychopath". I didn't know that, but checked a few sites.
So if there are 2000 million Christian, there will be 20 million Christian psychopaths. I hope they only read New Testament
Same for other religions. even 1% Atheist psychopath I guess. How many Atheists are on RF? Oops.

https://islamqa.info/en/85232
By the way Islam has a good thing [above link], if I understand well, they are advised not to:
1) watch "evil movies"; good ones are okay, just not the evil ones
2) listen "evil music"
3) read "evil books"
4) spreading "corrupt beliefs"

So when that is what they do, their minds should become very pure IMO. I follow the same and it has a positive effect I can see now.

I have a theory that makes me sad, having seen evidence that if you are a ******* and become religious, you are then a religious *******. If you are a nice person and become religious then you are a religious nice person. We make and change religion to suit ourselves. The idea that religion makes us nice is fantasy.

 

[Spiderman]

That's what was said "1 out of 100 people is a psychopath". I didn't know that, but checked a few sites.
So if there are 2000 million Christian, there will be 20 million Christian psychopaths. I hope they only read New Testament
Same for other religions. even 1% Atheist psychopath I guess. How many Atheists are on RF? Oops.

https://islamqa.info/en/85232
By the way Islam has a good thing [above link], if I understand well, they are advised not to:
1) watch "evil movies"; good ones are okay, just not the evil ones
2) listen "evil music"
3) read "evil books"
4) spreading "corrupt beliefs"

So when that is what they do, their minds should become very pure IMO. I follow the same and it has a positive effect I can see now.

I love many things about Islam.

However, the founder of Islam was by modern standards a vicious, cruel, barbaric psychopath!

Muslims do read an evil book.

Cutting off hands and feet is evil under any circumstances imo!

 

[Marsh]

Maybe it helps if you realize all religions are theological fandoms.

Like, I'm a Harry Potter fan, consider myself a Slytherin, and yet I'm not evil. I simply value "cunning, resourcefulness, and ambition."

I just had to say hello. I've never heard religious followers described as "theological fandoms." Very apt.

I am also a Harry Potter fan, though I came at it late. Rowling had already published the complete series when my 16 year old niece came over one day with the first volume and made me promise to read it. I did and I was immediately hooked. I've since read the series through at least twice.

 

[Spiderman]

I love many things about Islam.

However, the founder of Islam was by modern standards a vicious, cruel, barbaric psychopath!

Muslims do read an evil book.

Cutting off hands and feet is evil under any circumstances imo!

It's evil even if its done to me in the next life. Thats even worse Imo because it lasts longer!

 

[stvdv]

I have a theory that makes me sad, having seen evidence that if you are a ******* and become religious, you are then a religious *******. If you are a nice person and become religious then you are a religious nice person. We make and change religion to suit ourselves. The idea that religion makes us nice is fantasy.

That is my observation also. I just said if you "only see good things" then your mind gets more pure [not filled with rubbish].
I used to be a non-religious pleaser. Always wanted others to like me. But because I was unaware I did things I won't do now anymore, because now I am a spiritual pleaser. So spirituality did make me a nicer person. But you are right "I was always good at heart".

I have seen people that had some "mean" habits, and they did not change those "mean" habits. So I understand what you mean

 

[stvdv]

It's evil even if its done to me in the next life. Thats even worse Imo because it lasts longer!

And don't forget "it messes up this life also". So it's "double trouble". And when Hell is involved it's "eternal trouble"

 

[Spiderman]

But I do like how Muslims avoid alcohol. Alcohol kills a lot of people.

But avoiding alcohol, bad movies, bad books or music, isn't that noble if you kill innocent people like the Qur'an commands.

 

[stvdv]

I love many things about Islam.

However, the founder of Islam was by modern standards a vicious, cruel, barbaric psychopath!

Muslims do read an evil book.

Cutting off hands and feet is evil under any circumstances imo!

You don't hear me argue that

But imagine the cruelty if they also watched all evil things

And as I explained when Muhammad was living it was quite a barbarian time.
So Muhammad could not have survived if he was a wuss.
You need to be "the best Barbarian" to stay in charge of "a group of Barbarians"

Just using Common Sense

Old Testament was quite barbaric. Quran was quite barbaric. In between was Jesus. I guess must have been also quite barbaric
Quran was 700 years later. So my Common Sense says that DATA from 700 years later [Quran] is more accurately written down.

@PopeADope: Do you know if Jesus was a bit barbaric and that they just dress him up nice for the Bible; like they do with models and movie stars?
I do remember that I heard a priest say that the shepherds in Jesus days were savages. And probably the fisherman were also rough people.
Boats are not as good as now. So you need to be a bit rough to survive on sea I think.

 

[Marsh]

Do you have examples of Christian countries without Christian interference in government?

You will find plenty of Christian countries that are democracies. You will not find many Islamic nations that separate church and state, if indeed you can find any. My assertion is that this difference stems from the natures of the New Testament and the Koran. Jesus is presented as a very reasonable fellow with whom even Pontius Pilot could find no quarrel. Jesus, remember, said, "Pay unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's." This establishes a clear distinction between the state and the church. Mohammad, on the other was the state. He established the laws of the land, and his word was God's word. This is why Muslim nations are so often theocracies.

 

[stvdv]

But I do like how Muslims avoid alcohol. Alcohol kills a lot of people.

But avoiding alcohol, bad movies, bad books or music, isn't that noble if you kill innocent people like the Qur'an commands.

I think the best solution is: Don't go to a Muslim country if Quran has verses "kill innocent people". I have a big list of countries "Never to go"

 

[Spiderman]

You don't hear me argue that

But imagine the cruelty if they also watched all evil things

And as I explained when Muhammad was living it was quite a barbarian time.
So Muhammad could not have survived if he was a wuss.
You need to be "the best Barbarian" to stay in charge of "a group of Barbarians"

Just using Common Sense

Old Testament was quite barbaric. Quran was quite barbaric. In between was Jesus. I guess must have been also quite barbaric
Quran was 700 years later. So my Common Sense says that DATA from 700 years later [Quran] is more accurately written down.

@PopeADope: Do you know if Jesus was a bit barbaric and that they just dress him up nice for the Bible; like they do with models and movie stars?
I do remember that I heard a priest say that the shepherds in Jesus days were savages. And probably the fisherman were also rough people.
Boats are not as good as now. So you need to be a bit rough to survive on sea I think.

The documented words of Jesus were sometimes more civilised than 21st century Americans and Europeans, like "love your enemies" "turn the other cheek", and he forgave those who crowned him with thorns and crucified him.

A bigger wuss is the people who kill Polytheists and destroy their shrines and Idols for being "Idolators"!

Jesus lived in Pagan Roman empire, which was arguably more barbaric than Saudi-Arabia.

They used Christians as torches at the Olympic games, crucified people, pulled out their teeth, poured hot liquid led down their throats, and fed them to wild beasts.

But Christians didn't raise up an army to conquer the Pagan Romans till the time of Constantine, centuries later.

 

[shunyadragon]

I think the best solution is: Don't go to a Muslim country if Quran has verses "kill innocent people". I have a big list of countries "Never to go"

Do not go to Christian countries if the Bible has verses "kill innocent people."

 

[Marsh]

Under the Ottoman Empire's millet system, Christians and Jews were considered dhimmi(meaning "protected") under Ottoman law.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

Hi Adrian, this is correct. Jews and Christian are considered the People of the Book, and so have semi-protected status not afforded to those of other religions. That does not mean they have not been relentlessly persecuted and harassed under Islam. Besides, this is not really and example of an Islamic state acting toward Jews and Christians like a big brother. There are numerous recent instances of Christian congregations throughout the Middle East suffering murderous attacks. And everyone knows that wherever Islam goes anti-Semitic attacks soar.

 

[Ellen Brown]

You don't hear me argue that

But imagine the cruelty if they also watched all evil things

And as I explained when Muhammad was living it was quite a barbarian time.
So Muhammad could not have survived if he was a wuss.
You need to be "the best Barbarian" to stay in charge of "a group of Barbarians"

Just using Common Sense

Old Testament was quite barbaric. Quran was quite barbaric. In between was Jesus. I guess must have been also quite barbaric
Quran was 700 years later. So my Common Sense says that DATA from 700 years later [Quran] is more accurately written down.

@PopeADope: Do you know if Jesus was a bit barbaric and that they just dress him up nice for the Bible; like they do with models and movie stars?
I do remember that I heard a priest say that the shepherds in Jesus days were savages. And probably the fisherman were also rough people.
Boats are not as good as now. So you need to be a bit rough to survive on sea I think.

I hadn't even thought of the point you bring up. And Jesus is known to have gone into a Pub and drink wine, mulled or not. Lutherans drink also ...

I agree that the Quran, especially the Yusuf Ali interpretation is likely quite accurate. I'm of the opinion that the Hadiths inaccurately recorded, and Fatwas are what took Islam away from the view that Muhammad PBUH had.

 

[Spiderman]

Do not go to Christian countries if the Bible has verses "kill innocent people."

Jesus did away with garbage like stoning adulterers.

In the 21st century Muslims publicly stoned adulterers.

Jesus didn't say to kill anyone. When an apostle defended him with a sword he said "put down your sword, those who live by the sword will die by the sword."

Jesus is the one Christians are supposed to imitate. Muslims are supposed to imitate Muhammad, who was a mass-murderer.

Muhammad came after Jesus to bring back Fascist policies and oppression that Jesus did away with and spoke against.

 

[Spiderman]

Do not go to Christian countries if the Bible has verses "kill innocent people."

Europe, America, Canada, Russia, and Australia have more Christians than other Religions, and in this century don't legally torture and kill people for not being Christian.

Many Muslim majority countries legally did this, and took Christian and Muslim Shiite women and prepubescent girls as sex-slaves!