Why Jews did not accept Jesus (pbuh)!

[Tumah]

From a revert to Islam who shared his findings throughout his journey. He learned that from the old testament

Maybe he saw that in his dreams and he thought he read it?
He definitely didn't get it from the Torah, since there isn't even a word for crucifixion in Biblical Hebrew...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

From a revert to Islam who shared his findings throughout his journey. He learned that from the old testament

Ahhh ... you heard it from a guy and, naturally, decided to disseminate it without taking the responsibility to validate it.

 

[Sabour]

Maybe he saw that in his dreams and he thought he read it?
He definitely didn't get it from the Torah, since there isn't even a word for crucifixion in Biblical Hebrew...

No, am sure he didn't.

That's hanging a dead body on a tree

What would you call that

 

[Sabour]

Ahhh ... you heard it from a guy and, naturally, decided to disseminate it without taking the responsibility to validate it.

I started my reply with "according to my knowledge", I think that is fair.

Besides the verse discussed about hanging a dead body on a tree still serves on showing why there was a need to "crucify" Jesus peace be upon him.

Hanging the body of Jesus peace be upon him would still disprove who he is claiming to be.

 

[Tumah]

No, am sure he didn't.



What would you call that

I would call that hanging.
You see, in one, a dead body is hung with a rope from a tree. (hanging)
In the other a live body is nailed to a plank of wood. (crucifixion)

I started my reply with "according to my knowledge", I think that is fair.

Besides the verse discussed about hanging a dead body on a tree still serves on showing why there was a need to "crucify" Jesus peace be upon him.

Hanging the body of Jesus peace be upon him would still disprove who he is claiming to be.

I think killing him in the first place would already disprove that. There's nothing gained from hanging him that wasn't already accomplished when he was killed previously.
And of course, no where does it say that Jesus was hanged or hung, it says he was crucified while he was alive.

 

[Sabour]

I would call that hanging.
You see, in one, a dead body is hung with a rope from a tree. (hanging)
In the other a live body is nailed to a plank of wood. (crucifixion)


I think killing him in the first place would already disprove that. There's nothing gained from hanging him that wasn't already accomplished when he was killed previously.
And of course, no where does it say that Jesus was hanged or hung, it says he was crucified while he was alive.

Deuteronomy 21:22-23 If someone guilty of a capital offense is put to death and their body is exposed on a pole, you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God's curse. You must not desecrate the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.

The part I highlighted in red shows the gain behind hanging him. It doesn't make sense to insist on such thing if it makes no difference.

 

[metis]

Deuteronomy 21:22-23 If someone guilty of a capital offense is put to death and their body is exposed on a pole, you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God's curse. You must not desecrate the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.

According to the gospel accounts, Jesus wasn't buried.

 

[Flankerl]

Deuteronomy 21:22-23 If someone guilty of a capital offense is put to death and their body is exposed on a pole, you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God's curse. You must not desecrate the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.

The part I highlighted in red shows the gain behind hanging him. It doesn't make sense to insist on such thing if it makes no difference.

Been over this, read the thread.

 

[Tumah]

Deuteronomy 21:22-23 If someone guilty of a capital offense is put to death and their body is exposed on a pole, you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God's curse. You must not desecrate the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.

The part I highlighted in red shows the gain behind hanging him. It doesn't make sense to insist on such thing if it makes no difference.

It doesn't mean that G-d will curse him, it means that he is cursing G-d.

 

[Godobeyer]

So God had sex with Mary. Thats quite the Christian opinion of a devout Muslim.

So if we conclude that God might have done so, why not more often? Only 3 times? Let me guess its because Jesus is the Messiah.
Boring.

Even the Christians don't believe that God had sex with Mary!
Yes God did it,and He shows that He could creat "man" without nothing and without women and without man and with man and woman!
it's 4 not only 3.

 

[Sabour]

It doesn't mean that G-d will curse him, it means that he is cursing G-d.

English wise, I can't see how this is the case.

Doing some research, I read

"Lengthy passages of Mosaic Law (e.g., Lev 26:14-39; Deut 28:15-68) make it clear that covenant-breaking, especially flagrant disobedience to God's law, results in destruction. Covenant breakers incur God's curses, his wrath. So, the capital offender's hanging corpse is a vivid picture of his cursedness, 16 a visual reminder of the consequences of sinful rebellion. It is this cursedness that Hebrews would comprehend when they saw the lifeless body hanging from the tree. Further, within their covenantal context, Hebrews would not see cursedness as a result of hanging from a tree, but vice-versa: the offender suffers shameful public exposure after his death because of his cursed status. Craigie explains, "The body was not accursed of God…because it was hanging on a tree; it was hanging on a tree because it was accursed of God." 17"


Even Paul refers to this in Galatians

"Paul expounds on Deuteronomy 21:23 in Galatians 3:13-14: Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Jesus not only died in our place; but He also took the place as the accursed of God, being hung on a tree in open shame and degradation. He received this curse, which we deserved and He did not, so that we could receive the blessing of Abraham, which He deserved and we did not."

 

[Sabour]

According to the gospel accounts, Jesus wasn't buried.

What is your point please ?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Salam/Shalom/Hello

Please NOTICE this is Abrahamic DIR

As I see the Jews rejected Jesus (pbuh) because he said "I am God"

But actualy Jesus (pbuh) never claim that he is a God ,in Gospel there is no single scrpitures said Jesus (pbuh) claim that he is God , so why Jews rejecting him ?

The reason was because they thought the Messiah was going to provide salvation for them, only. To save them from the Roman oppression (John 11:47-48) They didn't realize that God's purpose for the Messiah, was on a much larger scale, to save mankind from sin and death, not just the Jews. But many Jews came to realize this, and became Christian.

 

[Tumah]

English wise, I can't see how this is the case.

Doing some research, I read

"Lengthy passages of Mosaic Law (e.g., Lev 26:14-39; Deut 28:15-68) make it clear that covenant-breaking, especially flagrant disobedience to God's law, results in destruction. Covenant breakers incur God's curses, his wrath. So, the capital offender's hanging corpse is a vivid picture of his cursedness, 16 a visual reminder of the consequences of sinful rebellion. It is this cursedness that Hebrews would comprehend when they saw the lifeless body hanging from the tree. Further, within their covenantal context, Hebrews would not see cursedness as a result of hanging from a tree, but vice-versa: the offender suffers shameful public exposure after his death because of his cursed status. Craigie explains, "The body was not accursed of God…because it was hanging on a tree; it was hanging on a tree because it was accursed of God." 17"


Even Paul refers to this in Galatians

"Paul expounds on Deuteronomy 21:23 in Galatians 3:13-14: Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Jesus not only died in our place; but He also took the place as the accursed of God, being hung on a tree in open shame and degradation. He received this curse, which we deserved and He did not, so that we could receive the blessing of Abraham, which He deserved and we did not."

What you are seeing in the Christian translations is backwards translating. First they see that their religious books speak about being cursed by G-d and so they alter the verse in the Torah to reflect that.
The problem is first of all, the context makes no sense. According to this reading, the verse is saying take him down from his hanging because he is cursed. "Do not leave his corpse on the tree, but you shall bury him that day, because [he that is] hanged is cursed of G-d." So that means, that anyone who is left on the tree to hang, isn't cursed? It seems like it should be the opposite.

Secondly, the word for "cursed" "קללת" here, doesn't mean a curse on a person, but like when you curse or swear at someone in anger as a way of degrading them. The word for a curse like the Christians intend, is "ארור" as is used in Deut. 28. The same word "קללה" is found in 2 Sam. 16:5 and 1 Kings 2:8, describing Shimei ben Geira cursing and throwing stones at David and his men. And the intent there is obviously to degrade David. So the words "קללת אלקים" don't mean "cursed of G-d", but more like "a degradation to G-d". And the verse is saying, "Do not leave his corpse on the tree, but you shall bury him that day, because [he that is] hanged is a degradation to G-d." And this has an obvious understanding, because man is created in G-d's image (Gem. 5:1), so to leave that image hanging on a tree is degrading to G-d.

Lastly, the words themselves are actually written with a little play on words. The words say, "קללת אלקים תלוי". The last word "תלוי" is being translated here by all the translators as "he that is hung" because the context is a hung corpse. But the word is not written in the passive voice "נתלה (he that is hanged)" or even with the preposition letter "ה" as in "התלוי (he that is hanging)". The actual translation of that word is "[is] hanging" as in "a thousand shields [are] hanging on it (SoS 4:4)". If you read it the Christian way, it doesn't follow logically, "do not leave his corpse on the tree, but you shall bury him that day because the curse of G-d is hanging." Why does being cursed by G-d mean that you can't be left hanging on a tree? What the verse is literally saying is that the "degradation of G-d is hanging". And because it is degrading to G-d for him to be hanging, take him down.

 

[Tumah]

The reason was because they thought the Messiah was going to provide salvation for them, only. To save them from the Roman oppression (John 11:47-48) They didn't realize that God's purpose for the Messiah, was on a much larger scale, to save mankind from sin and death, not just the Jews. But many Jews came to realize this, and became Christian.

Of course many Christians since then have come to realize that this claim can't be true and have converted to Judaism.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Of course many Christians since then have come to realize that this claim can't be true and have converted to Judaism.

Hey, Tumah, my friend! Hope you are doing well.

We definitely have different theological views, but that doesn't have to alienate us from each other, yes?

Wish you the best, always!

 

[Tumah]

Hey, Tumah, my friend! Hope you are doing well.

We definitely have different theological views, but that doesn't have to alienate us from each other, yes?

Wish you the best, always!

All I was saying, was that it goes two ways and doesn't really lend your arguments any validity.
You have to be prepared to defend yourself when you make a statement here.

 

[Sabour]

What you are seeing in the Christian translations is backwards translating. First they see that their religious books speak about being cursed by G-d and so they alter the verse in the Torah to reflect that.
The problem is first of all, the context makes no sense. According to this reading, the verse is saying take him down from his hanging because he is cursed. "Do not leave his corpse on the tree, but you shall bury him that day, because [he that is] hanged is cursed of G-d." So that means, that anyone who is left on the tree to hang, isn't cursed? It seems like it should be the opposite.

Secondly, the word for "cursed" "קללת" here, doesn't mean a curse on a person, but like when you curse or swear at someone in anger as a way of degrading them. The word for a curse like the Christians intend, is "ארור" as is used in Deut. 28. The same word "קללה" is found in 2 Sam. 16:5 and 1 Kings 2:8, describing Shimei ben Geira cursing and throwing stones at David and his men. And the intent there is obviously to degrade David. So the words "קללת אלקים" don't mean "cursed of G-d", but more like "a degradation to G-d". And the verse is saying, "Do not leave his corpse on the tree, but you shall bury him that day, because [he that is] hanged is a degradation to G-d." And this has an obvious understanding, because man is created in G-d's image (Gem. 5:1), so to leave that image hanging on a tree is degrading to G-d.

Lastly, the words themselves are actually written with a little play on words. The words say, "קללת אלקים תלוי". The last word "תלוי" is being translated here by all the translators as "he that is hung" because the context is a hung corpse. But the word is not written in the passive voice "נתלה (he that is hanged)" or even with the preposition letter "ה" as in "התלוי (he that is hanging)". The actual translation of that word is "[is] hanging" as in "a thousand shields [are] hanging on it (SoS 4:4)". If you read it the Christian way, it doesn't follow logically, "do not leave his corpse on the tree, but you shall bury him that day because the curse of G-d is hanging." Why does being cursed by G-d mean that you can't be left hanging on a tree? What the verse is literally saying is that the "degradation of G-d is hanging". And because it is degrading to G-d for him to be hanging, take him down.

All I was saying, was that it goes two ways and doesn't really lend your arguments any validity.
You have to be prepared to defend yourself when you make a statement here.

I think that this could lead to an endless conversation. For the sake of argument, let me say that I can't tell which is true.

Jeremiah 8:8 "'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

How would you explain Paul's letter to the Galatians ? "(Paul lived in the first century I think"

"Paul expounds on Deuteronomy 21:23 in Galatians 3:13-14: Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Jesus not only died in our place; but He also took the place as the accursed of God, being hung on a tree in open shame and degradation. He received this curse, which we deserved and He did not, so that we could receive the blessing of Abraham, which He deserved and we did not."

 

[Tarheeler]

How would you explain Paul's letter to the Galatians ? "(Paul lived in the first century I think"

Why would you ask a Jew to explain Christian scripture?

 

[Tumah]

I think that this could lead to an endless conversation. For the sake of argument, let me say that I can't tell which is true.

Jeremiah 8:8 "'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

How would you explain Paul's letter to the Galatians ? "(Paul lived in the first century I think"

"Paul expounds on Deuteronomy 21:23 in Galatians 3:13-14: Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Jesus not only died in our place; but He also took the place as the accursed of God, being hung on a tree in open shame and degradation. He received this curse, which we deserved and He did not, so that we could receive the blessing of Abraham, which He deserved and we did not."

One has nothing to do with the other.
Jeremiah was given a prophecy for his generation. That's what they were doing. Obviously it doesn't apply to every generation, because every generation does different things well and badly. The claim would be like saying that today we are serving Ba'al as Elijah warned us not to, even though today Ba'al doesn't exist. It was for that generation and recorded as a warning for later generations not to return to that way. Its not a statement about the eternal nature of the nation. And obviously the problem mentioned in Jeremiah was rectified as later prophets move on to other issues of the day.

Christian theology is simple: decide what you want it to say (or as they say it, the holy spirit told them) and then squeeze it into the verse. It can easily be disproved by searching out context and translation, as I did for you with the verse in question. Its a common issue that Christians have and if you search around the site, you will often see Jewish arguments to Christian translations are based on this. I gave you literal translation with proof from other sources in Tanach to prove that my translation is correct as well as contextual meaning to the verse, both of which are lacking in the Christian translation.