Why learn about other faiths?

[loverofhumanity]

I think one of the main purposes of religion is to create love and understanding between people and there is truth in all religions.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I am going to disagree with others in that I do not think it is “necessary” for me to know about all the older religions because I have the religion “I believe” that God wants everyone to be adhering to in this new age. I consider the older religions as relegated to history. I am sorry if that offends people but I tend to speak my mind. I would much rather spend my time talking to atheists and learning about how they think because that is more interesting.

How do you know that your religion is the best if you don’t know about other religions? Older religions such as Christianity, Islam or Buddhism may provide all you need but you will never know. Why is a newer religion better than an older one? Shouldn’t we all join the church of Scientology if that were true? Isn’t a desire to talk only to atheists prejudice? What’s so disenchanting about theism and theists? Isn’t the Baha’i Faith theistic? Hope you don’t mind the questions. I’m sure you’re up to it.

 

[Marcion]

I find religion to be distorted. Secular people are the future of humanity. Now that could be either dangerous or peaceful depending on the values they choose.

I think I agree with you. But what exactly is a secular person? Is someone practising yoga and meditation a secular person to you or a religious person? And suppose that person practising yoga and meditation has also adopted a moral code, does that make them religious? Or if they sometimes or even regularly meet up with others to practise group meditation, does that make them religious?
Where or how do you draw the line?

 

[Dawnofhope]

"Metrieya Buddha"
or "Bagwa Maitia" as I understand from Jesus in India written by the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 is about Jesus coming to India when many Jewish tribes in Kashmir and around it accepted him as well as the Buddhist people there accepted him because they had a prophecy from Buddha that a white color Maitia or Messiah would come into these lands.
"Metrieya Buddha" is the Second Coming of Buddha in the form of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908, as I understand and believe it.

Jesus In India | Islam Ahmadiyya

Regards

I'm not aware of an evidence to suggest Jesus travelled to India.

In regards the Metrieya Buddha there are a numbers of men who have claimed to be Him including the founders of both our faiths.

List of Buddha claimants - Wikipedia

 

[Vinayaka]

I have researched this matter in the past - which is why I am aware of it. So what was/is her caste?

Vellalar

 

[Vinayaka]

iam, this may be of interest..

Caste system among Indian Christians - Wikipedia

 

[Dawnofhope]

I have researched this matter in the past - which is why I am aware of it. So what was/is her caste?

I don't believe the caste system is anything like the class system in the West either.

The Ugly Reality of Caste Violence and Discrimination in Urban India

Perhaps a crucial difference in the West are the education and employment opportunities that are available to all.

I also got my BS (and subsequently Masters) in Computer Science at the same time It did take a while longer to graduate, and it definitely cost me in terms of student loans. Although, if I had focused on just graduating - even with my BA in Religious Studies - I could have shaved off a year or two (took 6 years for undergrad, 4 for masters while working full time).

That's certainly a practical approach.

I studied theology briefly during my medical training so it was helpful to more closely study the religion I was raised in. I converted to the Baha'i Faith many years ago as it appeared to remedy some of the concerns I had about Christianity. The Baha'i Faith has Islamic roots though I never reflected much on this for many years. Some of my in-laws are Buddhist so another opportunity to learn. So although I've started with Christianity, my knowledge of other faiths has grown through life experience more than formal education.

 

[iam1me]

iam, this may be of interest..

Caste system among Indian Christians - Wikipedia

Yes - among some, even after converting, the caste system remains. Others, as the wiki says, give up their caste altogether. Changing religions isn't a magic bullet to all life's problems caused by the caste system, but many find it to be an effective vehicle for social mobility that they otherwise would be deprived of.

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes - among some, even after converting, the caste system remains. Others, as the wiki says, give up their caste altogether. Changing religions isn't a magic bullet to all life's problems caused by the caste system, but many find it to be an effective vehicle for social mobility that they otherwise would be deprived of.

Social mobility is difficult in lots of societies. The high cost of university in America is one example. Far cheaper to get a degree in many other places, including much of Asia. I'm not aware of any in depth studies of this. In third world countries where the wealth discrepancy abounds, it's very difficult to get out of poverty. In India, it's the middle class that's growing. People are far more likely to move upward in that regard, caste lines are becoming blurry, just as the days of following your father in his profession are long gone, for the most part.

Originally, castes were much like guilds, that was the intention anyway. Grouping by profession.

I'm against unfounded discrimination of any kind ... be it race, gender, age, religion, caste, or class. All of them happen in too many substantial ways on this planet, and fortunately social change from many factors is slowly eliminating much of it.

 

[iam1me]

I don't believe the caste system is anything like the class system in the West either.

The Ugly Reality of Caste Violence and Discrimination in Urban India

Perhaps a crucial difference in the West are the education and employment opportunities that are available to all.

In the West, they just want to enslave everyone via debt. Viva la capitalism! >.>

That's certainly a practical approach.

I studied theology briefly during my medical training so it was helpful to more closely study the religion I was raised in. I converted to the Baha'i Faith many years ago as it appeared to remedy some of the concerns I had about Christianity. The Baha'i Faith has Islamic roots though I never reflected much on this for many years. Some of my in-laws are Buddhist so another opportunity to learn. So although I've started with Christianity, my knowledge of other faiths has grown through life experience more than formal education.

There are lots of different ways to study different faiths which will emphasize different things. My preferred approach is the more classical, theologically centered approach: what does the religion teach and why? What are the core values and beliefs? What is it's primary goal(s)? etc.

There is the cultural approach: how do the people embrace their religion in different parts of the world? How does the religion adapt to the unique social pressures and needs in this part of the world at this point in time? And what do the common, less educated members of society view their religion?

There is the comparative approach to religion - seeking to understand the religious phenomenon as a whole. After all, across all societies and history - religion in some form is found. What constitutes as a religion in the first place? For what reason are people drawn to religion? etc.

And there are other approaches out there too, such as more mystic approaches.

As long as you continue to seek the truth, I believe God is good and will lead us there in the end.

 

[iam1me]

Social mobility is difficult in lots of societies. The high cost of university in America is one example. Far cheaper to get a degree in many other places, including much of Asia. I'm not aware of any in depth studies of this. In third world countries where the wealth discrepancy abounds, it's very difficult to get out of poverty. In India, it's the middle class that's growing. People are far more likely to move upward in that regard, caste lines are becoming blurry, just as the days of following your father in his profession are long gone, for the most part.

Originally, castes were much like guilds, that was the intention anyway. Grouping by profession.

I'm against unfounded discrimination of any kind ... be it race, gender, age, religion, caste, or class. All of them happen in too many substantial ways on this planet, and fortunately social change from many factors is slowly eliminating much of it.

Indeed - though the motivation for impeding to social mobility is largely the same: hate and greed. The people who truly benefit - the upper classes - tend to be more greedy, and they instill hate in the lower classes to keep them in support of repressing themselves and even lower classes.

But there is a larger religious issue at the back of all this as well: karma and rebirth. Hinduism, Buddhism and the like take the position that one's position in life that they are born into is a directly result their karma. If you are born into a wealthy, noble family - it's because you deserve it. And if you are born into a lower caste that everyone discriminates against - you deserve it. Thus the religious belief system is used to justify such discrimination. If you suffer - that is nothing more than the result of your karma. Thus the victims are made out to be perpetrators of their own suffering.

It is analogous to blaming a rape victim for "tempting" the one who raped them.

 

[Vinayaka]

Indeed - though the motivation for impeding to social mobility is largely the same: hate and greed. The people who truly benefit - the upper classes - tend to be more greedy, and they instill hate in the lower classes to keep them in support of repressing themselves and even lower classes.

But there is a larger religious issue at the back of all this as well: karma and rebirth. Hinduism, Buddhism and the like take the position that one's position in life that they are born into is a directly result their karma. If you are born into a wealthy, noble family - it's because you deserve it. And if you are born into a lower caste that everyone discriminates against - you deserve it. Thus the religious belief system is used to justify such discrimination. If you suffer - that is nothing more than the result of your karma. Thus the victims are made out to be perpetrators of their own suffering.

Indeed that may be true, but it's a huge misunderstanding of karma. A better understanding is to put karma into the present to future, not the past to present. So when someone with the option to help should understand when they see a person in need, that it's both their karmas for one to receive help, and the other to give it. Many Hindus give charitably because of karma, fully recognising that not giving will effect their own karma for next time around, or for later this lifetime. In my personal life, this second view is more common, but interactions are more likely to be based on experience with that specific person.

But you're correct ... some people (of all faiths) will walk past a charitable situation saying 'it's their fault' putting the blame where it may or may not be deserved simply because of their own selfishness.

I try not to make sweeping generalisations. The planet is 7 billion strong, each person has at least 10 interactions a day, and each of those contains some factor we could analyze. In short, it's complicated, and each situation varies.

Caste discrimination in Kerala relief camp, district collector orders probe - Times of India

 

[iam1me]

Indeed that may be true, but it's a huge misunderstanding of karma. A better understanding is to put karma into the present to future, not the past to present. So when someone with the option to help should understand when they see a person in need, that it's both their karmas for one to receive help, and the other to give it. Many Hindus give charitably because of karma, fully recognising that not giving will effect their own karma for next time around, or for later this lifetime. In my personal life, this second view is more common, but interactions are more likely to be based on experience with that specific person.

But you're correct ... some people (of all faiths) will walk past a charitable situation saying 'it's their fault' putting the blame where it may or may not be deserved simply because of their own selfishness.

I try not to make sweeping generalisations. The planet is 7 billion strong, each person has at least 10 interactions a day, and each of those contains some factor we could analyze. In short, it's complicated, and each situation varies.

Caste discrimination in Kerala relief camp, district collector orders probe - Times of India

I think the proper approach is to recognize both the past -> present interaction of karma as well as the present -> future interaction; for both are taught and applicable. A holistic understanding of karma means both accepting the idea that one brings about their own suffering, as well as understanding that when you are presented to do something about that suffering - that is an opportunity for you to do good/evil.

Hindus at least want to do good instead of evil. Buddhism, on the other hand, rejects doing either good or evil. Taoism rejects good and evil at a conceptual level, as an illusion of language and culture versus nature/Tao.

 

[Marcion]

There are also christians who think that misfortunes are a result of inherent sin and God punishing us for it. This seems to me similar to abusing knowledge of the law of karma and reincarnation.

The way of thinking associated with the caste system probably reinforces the idea that you can only seriously improve your situation by being reborn into a "better" incarnation or even in a "better" gender and have to accept your present "fate". So it is not the knowledge of karma (which Jesus also teaches) and reincarnation that is to blame but dogma.

 

[Dawnofhope]

In the West, they just want to enslave everyone via debt. Viva la capitalism! >.>

Maybe.

The economy is simply a tool that can enable a great deal material progress to be made including socioeconomic developmental that can serve the needs of humanity if we aply the correct spiritual principles.

Does work need to be seen as enslavement or as a means that each of us can contribute to the greater whole? Employment can assist each one of us spiritually if we cultivate attitudes of service rather than self-centredness.

There are lots of different ways to study different faiths which will emphasize different things. My preferred approach is the more classical, theologically centered approach: what does the religion teach and why? What are the core values and beliefs? What is it's primary goal(s)? etc.

There is the cultural approach: how do the people embrace their religion in different parts of the world? How does the religion adapt to the unique social pressures and needs in this part of the world at this point in time? And what do the common, less educated members of society view their religion?

There is the comparative approach to religion - seeking to understand the religious phenomenon as a whole. After all, across all societies and history - religion in some form is found. What constitutes as a religion in the first place? For what reason are people drawn to religion? etc.

And there are other approaches out there too, such as more mystic approaches.

As long as you continue to seek the truth, I believe God is good and will lead us there in the end.

Most of the life changing epiphanies for me have arisen outside of academia. I'm enjoying your perspectives though and its always refreshing to talk to a Christian or any faith adherent that can engage in sensible and respectful discussions on spiritual and social matters that affect us all.

As your religion has taught so well, 'seek and ye shall find' and 'the truth shall set ye free'.

Matthew 7:7-8
John 8:32

 

[iam1me]

There are also christians who think that misfortunate is a result of inherent sin and God punishing us for it. This seems to me similar to abusing knowledge of the law of karma and reincarnation.

The way of thinking associated with the caste system probably reinforces the idea that you can only seriously improve your situation by being reborn into a "better" incarnation or even in a "better" gender. So it is not the knowlegde of karma (which Jesus also teaches) and reincarnation that is to blame.

There are those who try to mix Christianity with karma-based religions - though the result of such a mix is a cherry picked belief system rather than a proper reflection of either Christianity or the other religion.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think the proper approach is to recognize both the past -> present interaction of karma as well as the present -> future interaction; for both are taught and applicable. A holistic understanding of karma means both accepting the idea that one brings about their own suffering, as well as understanding that when you are presented to do something about that suffering - that is an opportunity for you to do good/evil.

Hindus at least want to do good instead of evil. Buddhism, on the other hand, rejects doing either good or evil. Taoism rejects good and evil at a conceptual level, as an illusion of language and culture versus nature/Tao.

Never lose an opportunity, yes, but selective giving is also recommended. Give to where it will do the most good. The merits of the receiver need to be considered. The drug addict on the street may not benefit at all from your coin toss.

Hindus, for the most part, although there are exceptions, prefer not to think in good/evil terms, but more in dharmic/adharmic. It makes it less dualistic in nature. We don't believe in intrinsic evil.

 

[Marcion]

There are those who try to mix Christianity with karma-based religions - though the result of such a mix is a cherry picked belief system rather than a proper reflection of either Christianity or the other religion.

You are wrong, I only take the words of Jesus himself and don't mix anything. Rather it is Chistianity which has mixed Greek, Jewish and other ideology in with the teachings of the original Yeshua. Study the teachings of Yeshua seriously and you will realise this also.

 

[Vinayaka]

You are wrong,

Nobody is wrong. There are only differing views.

 

[iam1me]

Maybe.

The economy is simply a tool that can enable a great deal material progress to be made including socioeconomic developmental that can serve the needs of humanity if we aply the correct spiritual principles.

Does work need to be seen as enslavement or as a means that each of us can contribute to the greater whole? Employment can assist each one of us spiritually if we cultivate attitudes of service rather than self-centredness.

Capitalism is more than just an economy, it is a systematic approach to the economy meant to maximize profits at the expense of the rest of society. That's why companies are making record profits and paying their employees less than what they need to just survive. Look at Amazon for instance - they are worth trillions! Yet their employees are so afraid of not meeting quotas that they **** in containers rather thank risk a bathroom break, they pass out and are hospitalized or even die from being overworked, etc. And these two facts are not unrelated - it is through such mistreatment and disregard for their workers that Amazon can secure such profits.

Work is good, having a stable economy is good, but greed is never good. And capitalism is nothing more than systematic greed.

Most of the life changing epiphanies for me have arisen outside of academia. I'm enjoying your perspectives though and its always refreshing to talk to a Christian or any faith adherent that can engage in sensible and respectful discussions on spiritual and social matters that affect us all.

As your religion has taught so well, 'seek and ye shall find' and 'the truth shall set ye free'.

Matthew 7:7-8
John 8:32