Why my Mormon workmate doesnt believe in Evo.

[Tawn]

Ive seen a lot of reasons why people dont accept evolution. Most of them are flawed in one way or another..

But heres one I havent seen mentioned here..

My work college doesnt believe in Evolution - and hence that Humans and Apes descended from a common ancestor. His response was that such a theory stands in the way of the idea that Humans are Gods children or Gods chosen. If we evolved from animals he claims this cannot be so.

Id like peoples thoughts and responses on this.. I have my own arguments against such a position.. but id like to see what people think.

 

[Quiddity]

I'm not really following how it stands in the way?

 

[michel]

Ive seen a lot of reasons why people dont accept evolution. Most of them are flawed in one way or another..

But heres one I havent seen mentioned here..

My work college doesnt believe in Evolution - and hence that Humans and Apes descended from a common ancestor. His response was that such a theory stands in the way of the idea that Humans are Gods children or Gods chosen. If we evolved from animals he claims this cannot be so.

Id like peoples thoughts and responses on this.. I have my own arguments against such a position.. but id like to see what people think.

My own Theist's immediate gut reaction ?...........why does your friend think that we humans are so much more worthy than animals ?

 

[SoyLeche]

Coming from an LDS perspective, I don't see any merit to what he is saying. Maybe I just don't understand his problem. We believe that God is the Father of our Pre-mortal spirits, and that he created this Earth so that (among other reasons) we could come down and get bodies. How those bodies came about doesn't change the relationship we have with the Father of our spirits.

 

[Tawn]

I'm not really following how it stands in the way?

Im guessing that he thinks if we evolved from animals that makes us no more special than the animals.

I think its plain arrogance. The same mentality behind how we used to believe the earth was the centre of the universe and the sun and everything else orbited the earth.

 

[Tawn]

Coming from an LDS perspective, I don't see any merit to what he is saying. Maybe I just don't understand his problem. We believe that God is the Father of our Pre-mortal spirits, and that he created this Earth so that (among other reasons) we could come down and get bodies. How those bodies came about doesn't change the relationship we have with the Father of our spirits.

Ah! Most interesting. I hadnt looked at it like that...

 

[robtex]

Tawn, that is a common arguement on my side of the ocean. I live in Texas in a section of the USA called the Bible belt. Creationism is pretty common down in these here parts (texas talk excuse the slang), and that reason is one of the more predominant ones.

Most creationsits here see the Bible as the inerrant word of God, as opposed to the inspired word of God and point out man's covenant with God and his non-covenant with animals as proof against evolution. Illustrated it looks like this

P1 Man has a covenant with God as explained in the bible (not gonna look up versus saying there is a covenant unless you need me to)

P2 Animals do not have a covenant with God

P3: A covenant with God is proof of our presonal relationship with him

P4: evolution by its premise, shows that men and apes are related by genetics

P5: A genetic linage is incompatable with the fact of man's and not animals covenant with God

C1 therefore evolution is false.

 

[evearael]

Of course, how the heck are we supposed to know what God's relationship with animals is? How do we know whether or not there is a covenant with them? Consider... God made animals first over the course of several days. Consider... There are a lot of laws concerning cruelty to animals, so God definitely is looking out for their well being.

 

[Polaris]

There are hundreds of reasons that I don't believe in evolution, and your friend mentions one of them. Like your friend, obviously, I believe that we are God's children, made in His image. I believe the Bible is the word of God, and I am of the ilk that adheres to a pretty literal interpretation and I believe Adam was indeed created in the image of God and did not evolve from an ape. I will even go so far as to say that we (mankind) are God's greatest creation and the one He is most concerned with.

 

[evearael]

Do you believe that God literally took the children of Israel out of Egypt on the wings of eagles?

 

[nutshell]

For the record, the LDS Church (as far as I know) has not issued an official statement on evolution. Therefore, your Mormon friend's beliefs about the subject are his own and not the church's.

I, for one, believe in evolution and I am LDS/Mormon.

 

[evearael]

Does the LDS church tend to involve itself in scientific matters very frequently?

 

[nutshell]

Does the LDS church tend to involve itself in scientific matters very frequently?

Nope. The LDS Church typically focuses on the spiritual and leaves the science for the scientists. A very healthy arrangement in my opinion.

 

[Sunstone]

Your workmate is being silly, Tawn. His reason for rejecting evolution is irrelevant to the evidence for evolution.

Just curious, but what is his knowledge of that evidence? I find here in the States that the overwhelming majority of those opposed to evolution have basically flawed understandings of the evidence for it and the theory itself.

 

[SoyLeche]

Does the LDS church tend to involve itself in scientific matters very frequently?

No, not very often.

I like a couple of quotes (paraphrases for now, I don't have the quotes with me) by Henry Eyering - a prominent Scientist in his day (He was a Chemist) - and a fairly high ranking Mormon (I believe he was General Sunday School President for a while). He said that his mother told him, when he left of college, "All truth is a part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You go to school and learn all that you can. If it is true, it's a part of the Gospel."

One of my favorite quotes of his is: "I know that God created the Universe and everything within it. How He went about doing it doesn't concern me." - That's kinda how I feel when it comes to evolution. I don't know how creation and evolution fit together, but I don't doubt that they can - so I don't worry about it.

 

[Tawn]

I will even go so far as to say that we (mankind) are God's greatest creation and the one He is most concerned with.

Do you know which one of the seven deadly sins applies to you?

Seriously though, what makes you think this? Both humans and animals go through pretty much the same fundamental experiences.. pain, loss, love, joy.. etc...
Additionally, do you also deny all of biology? Im not talking about evolution. Im talking genes and dissections here. We are formed of the same chemical compounds, have the same internal organs (as mammals at least) and our DNA is almost identical to that of apes.
What more do you need? Nothing in the biological world suggests anything 'special' about us. If we are created in Gods image, it seems perculiar does it not that an ape looks quite similar to god?

 

[SoyLeche]

In case you are interested, this is a packet that is given to the Biology students at BYU that provides documents about evolution that can be said to be official as far as the church is concerned. Enjoy!

http://whitinglab.byu.edu/PDF/Evolution%20Packet.pdf

 

[Polaris]

Just so you know, when I say that I "adhere to a pretty literal interpretation" I don't mean that I take every single word literally. I know there are such things as metaphors and figurative writing.

Do you know which one of the seven deadly sins applies to you?

No, which one applies to people who believe in scripture and think that mankind is the offspring of God?

Seriously though, what makes you think this? Both humans and animals go through pretty much the same fundamental experiences.. pain, loss, love, joy.. etc...
Additionally, do you also deny all of biology? Im not talking about evolution. Im talking genes and dissections here. We are formed of the same chemical compounds, have the same internal organs (as mammals at least) and our DNA is almost identical to that of apes.
What more do you need?

Yes I believe in biology and that is one of the many things that continues to convince me that there is a God, we could not be where we are and as complex as we are without a Creator. Just because we have some similarities in our physical composition to other animals, in no way implies that we're not the result of a grand creation.

Are you one of those who loves (or would love) your dog as much as your own child?
I for one am not.

Nothing in the biological world suggests anything 'special' about us.

Do you know of any other animal that can communicate and reason even close to as sophisticated as us?

If we are created in Gods image, it seems perculiar does it not that an ape looks quite similar to god?

Obviously I can't speak for you, but I don't think I look all that much like an ape.

 

[Tawn]

Just because we have some similarities in our physical composition to other animals, in no way implies that we're not the result of a grand creation.

No, but it does imply we were created(/developed) in a similar fashion.

Are you one of those who loves (or would love) your dog as much as your own child?
I for one am not.

I would be more closely related to my offsping than any dog, so no.

Do you know of any other animal that can communicate and reason even close to as sophisticated as us?

So we are simply more sophisticated versions of animals are we? But only socially and culturally..

Obviously I can't speak for you, but I don't think I look all that much like an ape.

A head, a torso, two legs, two arms, two eyes, a nose with two nostrils, a mouth, two ears, two lungs, a stomach, intestines, a spine, a tail, nipples, knees, elbows... etc... etc...
You're telling me you dont fit those features?

I mean look at the natural world, there are animals out there that are so significantly different from us.. yet apes and mammals are so very similar. What is that about? Did God lose his creativity along the way or something?

 

[Polaris]

No, but it does imply we were created(/developed) in a similar fashion.

That doesn't bother me at all. The same person was responsible for the Creation of all animals.

I would be more closely related to my offsping than any dog, so no.

Good. I imagine God feels the same way.

So we are simply more sophisticated versions of animals are we? But only socially and culturally..

I would also suggest that we are also more sophisticated spiritually. Spiritually we have the potential to be heirs to God and become like Him.

A head, a torso, two legs, two arms, two eyes, a nose with two nostrils, a mouth, two ears, two lungs, a stomach, intestines, a spine, a tail, nipples, knees, elbows... etc... etc...
You're telling me you dont fit those features?

I mean look at the natural world, there are animals out there that are so significantly different from us.. yet apes and mammals are so very similar. What is that about? Did God lose his creativity along the way or something?

Of course when you start making relative comparisons some animals are naturally going to look more like us than the rest. What point does that prove? Again I don't think I look all that much like an ape, sure relative to a rhino I do, so what's your point?