Why Not Generate More Gas?

[The Sum of Awe]

Gas prices went up to $3.41 here on my way back from work which led to my dad (basically a supporter of corporation powers) and I (laissez faire capitalist or something close at least)

And my dad thought the prices were ridiculous, and I told him that I thought they were cheating us, raising them and lowering them, but unnoticabely rising in the long run. He said it had to do with the oil spill, trying to make up for the money lost but he finds it stupid because he thinks there shouldn't be multiple oil companies, from what I got of it.

Something came into mind. While I know it's not simple to generate oil, it's not a renewable source and is built of fossil fuels (something like that) but why not generate some other form of fuel to run our machines, especially the overused machine, the vehicle, that's cheaper to make?

I know it's not as easy as it sounds, I'm sure we can figure it out if we put more focus into it, including government focus which I'm sure tries to avoid looking into the idea to flow the economy better and to protect their sacred corporations behind oil. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but people in power, no matter who it is, will inevitably grow a narcissistic personality.

I'm still trying to figure out why there isn't another source of energy that runs our vehicles rather than electricity. Why not nuclear? We can find a way to contain it well enough to not be released or exploded in an accident.

Or, like I said, an artificial fuel. It'd create more jobs, it'd keep the economy flowing (as it'd be an artificial product), and it could be made cheaper. Am I thinking way too unrealistic or has the government just not put their minds into it enough?

I seriously do think there needs to be some kind of oil revolution, or instead an entire new revolution on our abusive government that we let get by with feeding us **** while they get the better treatment and share this treatment with corporations if they play along with this false helplessness for our economy. What if there is hope but the government pays the larger corporations, the ones that run the majority of our world, to lie to us and tell us they're doing the best they can? What if the system we have is flawed and nobody can realize it?

What if simply posting this thread is useless, we can continue to make more and more threads on this forum, or make entire forums based around this subject, but it gets us nowhere, we'll just go back to work for these narcissists and talk to each other about how they are narcissists, we can't take a step forward until we do something, what if that's so?

Is the government a sack full of lies and rotten flesh or am I just a conspiracy theorist?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

-goes back to using the internet they provide, eating the food they provide, and using these phone services they provide through their corporations-

 

[Revoltingest]

Is the government a sack full of lies and rotten flesh or am I just a conspiracy theorist?

Both.

Btw, I think our fossil fuels (LPG, gasoline, diesel, etc) are too cheap.
Raise taxes on'm, & offset this by lowering income taxes.

 

[LuisDantas]

Brazil has been trying to make ethanol a viable car fuel since the mid 1970s, with mixed results at best. And we are something of a leader in the field, or so I hear.

Logically, fuel must be something of a logistical challenge even under ideal conditions, since the demand is so big and so constant.

At some point we will have to switch to far lesser numbers of vehicles and have most of them electrical, powered mainly by wind and solar energy. Hopefully we won't delay that realization too much longer.

 

[Revoltingest]

Brazil has been trying to make ethanol a viable car fuel since the mid 1970s, with mixed results at best. And we are something of a leader in the field, or so I hear.

Logically, fuel must be something of a logistical challenge even under ideal conditions, since the demand is so big and so constant.

At some point we will have to switch to far lesser numbers of vehicles and have most of them electrical, powered mainly by wind and solar energy. Hopefully we won't delay that realization too much longer.

The best way to spur development of cost effective alternatives is to boost the price of fossil fuel.
Then the markets (not boobs in government) will provide optimum solutions. Right now, we (in
Americastan) have the wrong incentives for industry.

 

[LuisDantas]

The best way to spur development of cost effective alternatives is to boost the price of fossil fuel.

Probably.

It also sounds like a good recipe for political suicide, alas.

Then the markets (not boobs in government) will provide optimum solutions. Right now, we (in Americastan) have the wrong incentives for industry.

Private initiative can only go so far in attending to such a basic need of today's culture, I fear. For better or worse government needs to ensure decent fuel supply these days.

It is a difficult knot.

 

[Revoltingest]

Probably.
It also sounds like a good recipe for political suicide, alas.

Well....I never said my idea would actually work.

Private initiative can only go so far in attending to such a basic need of today's culture, I fear. For better or worse government needs to ensure decent fuel supply these days.
It is a difficult knot.

Gov is necessary to make conditions which will generate the desired response in the markets.
Yes, I actually said the underlined stuff.

 

[Alceste]

There is no alternative to fossil fuels for a cheap and abundant source of energy. Every other energy source we are aware of is more costly to create or extract. The use of arable land for growing ethanol crops is already devastating the food supply, especially in places that can not afford any disruption, like Africa.

Gas prices are going up because the world's supply of oil is limited. We have been finding fewer oil fields every year since the seventies, and the remaining sources are much more costly to extract (deep sea, tar sands, shale, etc). Even tapping these sources has failed to increase the supply for the last few years.

Basically, if you can't afford gas, you will need to give up driving. It will never get cheaper. Demand increases every year but the supply can not increase to meet it, and soon will start to decline. That means it will get more expensive every year until it's no longer available to the general public at all.

If you live in a hydro power region, your best bet is an electric car. In a coal region, you will save your gas money in the short term, but eventually have the same energy issue we at seeing with oil.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Basically, if you can't afford gas, you will need to give up driving. It will never get cheaper. Demand increases every year but the supply can not increase to meet it, and soon will start to decline. That means it will get more expensive every year until it's no longer available to the general public at all.

:clap

Have you ever noticed there is no energy star on clothes dryers? We need to hang our clothes out to dry. Turn your air conditioners off. Wear your older clothes another year and those tennis shoes.

In other words, quit being so wasteful. The more stuff we buy, the more semi trucks run the road. Start a garden, become a Vegan.

Make you kids take the bus to school or heaven forbid, walk!

Refuse to use a drive-thru.

Movies? Seriously? You use gasoline to go to the movies and then you sit in an energy hog building with alot of sick people all the while your house is empty and the air conditioner or heat is on.

Not to mention everyone has to take a shower, put on clean clothes and more likely the latest and greatest tennis shoes. Wasteful wasteful wasteful.

Sit at home in your bathrobe burping, farting and generally relaxing not wasting energy. Oh, and popcorn is much cheaper too.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well....I never said my idea would actually work.



Gov is necessary to make conditions which will generate the desired response in the markets.
Yes, I actually said the underlined stuff.

Rev, are you feeling well?

 

[Revoltingest]

Rev, are you feeling well?

Fantabulous!
Remember....I'm a Libertarian, not an anarchist.

 

[Penumbra]

Gas prices went up to $3.41 here on my way back from work which led to my dad (basically a supporter of corporation powers) and I (laissez faire capitalist or something close at least)

And my dad thought the prices were ridiculous, and I told him that I thought they were cheating us, raising them and lowering them, but unnoticabely rising in the long run. He said it had to do with the oil spill, trying to make up for the money lost but he finds it stupid because he thinks there shouldn't be multiple oil companies, from what I got of it.

Something came into mind. While I know it's not simple to generate oil, it's not a renewable source and is built of fossil fuels (something like that) but why not generate some other form of fuel to run our machines, especially the overused machine, the vehicle, that's cheaper to make?

I know it's not as easy as it sounds, I'm sure we can figure it out if we put more focus into it, including government focus which I'm sure tries to avoid looking into the idea to flow the economy better and to protect their sacred corporations behind oil. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but people in power, no matter who it is, will inevitably grow a narcissistic personality.

I'm still trying to figure out why there isn't another source of energy that runs our vehicles rather than electricity. Why not nuclear? We can find a way to contain it well enough to not be released or exploded in an accident.

Or, like I said, an artificial fuel. It'd create more jobs, it'd keep the economy flowing (as it'd be an artificial product), and it could be made cheaper. Am I thinking way too unrealistic or has the government just not put their minds into it enough?

I seriously do think there needs to be some kind of oil revolution, or instead an entire new revolution on our abusive government that we let get by with feeding us **** while they get the better treatment and share this treatment with corporations if they play along with this false helplessness for our economy. What if there is hope but the government pays the larger corporations, the ones that run the majority of our world, to lie to us and tell us they're doing the best they can? What if the system we have is flawed and nobody can realize it?

What if simply posting this thread is useless, we can continue to make more and more threads on this forum, or make entire forums based around this subject, but it gets us nowhere, we'll just go back to work for these narcissists and talk to each other about how they are narcissists, we can't take a step forward until we do something, what if that's so?

Is the government a sack full of lies and rotten flesh or am I just a conspiracy theorist?

-Biofuels generally compete with the food supply which isn't good. Arable land is a dwindling resource on the planet due to overpopulation and intensive farming techniques, and all of those pesticides go into the rivers and groundwater. Algae is an area of research because has more energy output than land crops and could in theory be grown in a way that doesn't compete with the food supply, but it would need more research and development and may or may not be an economic dead end. The infrastructure for all of that would be enormous.

-Solar energy is getting better but only in some contexts. Can't run a convenient car on it. Same with wind and hydro power. I think it's important to keep expanding solar and wind energy on the grid to offset non-renewable and dirtier energy sources. Nuclear fission power is an option that much of the public opposes due to risks. All of those various methods are only useful for grid energy, and the improving performance of electric cars now allows that energy to be used for the cars, which is still fairly expensive per mile.

-They're still doing research on nuclear fusion energy but that always seems like a fantasy that it would happen any time soon.

 

[dust1n]

Hmm. Never really thought about algae, but can't be biomass be used a fuel resource? Can't we make some algae that utilizes the various waste of humans to grow and be used a fuel source, all the while cleaning pollution?

 

[Revoltingest]

Hmm. Never really thought about algae, but can't be biomass be used a fuel resource? Can't we make some algae that utilizes the various waste of humans to grow and be used a fuel source, all the while cleaning pollution?

Research on algae based biofuels has been going on a long time, but no one has been able to make a go of it. Biomass is cost effective on a small scale decentralized basis, but isn't contributing much. (I'm ignoring ethanol cuz it's a huge waste of food & resources.) From what I observe as a big consumer of energy, the best return on investment is conservation:
- LED lighting to replace fluorescent, halogen, incandescent, & sodium bulbs.
- Better HVAC controls.
- Upgrading insulation during other rehab work.
- Less detached housing, & more townhouse/apartment type dwellings for reduced surface area to volume ratio, & greater housing density.
- Avoid driving when practical.
- More durable building materials reduce maintenance which is fossil fuel intensive, eg, wood flooring in offices instead of carpet.

 

[Penumbra]

Hmm. Never really thought about algae, but can't be biomass be used a fuel resource? Can't we make some algae that utilizes the various waste of humans to grow and be used a fuel source, all the while cleaning pollution?

Algae is a bit more promising than other biofuels because it doesn't compete as directly with food and because it has a fast growth/harvest cycle, and because the effective yield is apparently higher than land-based crops since the whole organism is used rather than a part of the plant. It's grown in tanks and stuff- there would have to be a lot of infrastructure to make it work, they might be able to use some ocean real estate rather than agricultural land, but as far as I know it's not efficient yet and may or may not ever be.

 

[Alceste]

Hmm. Never really thought about algae, but can't be biomass be used a fuel resource? Can't we make some algae that utilizes the various waste of humans to grow and be used a fuel source, all the while cleaning pollution?

I think the algae they've had most success with is engineered to produce some combustible byproduct and grown in enormous tanks. It doesn't take up much arable land because you can stack the tanks. OTOH, it must still be much more costly than ethanol and fossil fuel extraction, since it is not currently being exploited despite the fact that the technology is well established.

 

[esmith]

I would like to see more emphasis placed on Hydrogen Fuel Cells. A good review on a Toyota SUV that runs on a fuel cell can be found here:
I tried a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. Here’s what it was like.

and the process to obtain hydrogen can be found here:
NREL: Hydrogen and Fuel Cells Research - Hydrogen Production and Delivery

 

[Alceste]

I would like to see more emphasis placed on Hydrogen Fuel Cells. A good review on a Toyota SUV that runs on a fuel cell can be found here:
I tried a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. Here’s what it was like.

and the process to obtain hydrogen can be found here:
NREL: Hydrogen and Fuel Cells Research - Hydrogen Production and Delivery

Hydrogen is an energy sink. IOW, it costs more energy to produce H cells than they can store. Not a solution.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Here is a Tesla application. I suggest watching all the videos.

[youtube]X0L9rq87n3w[/youtube]
DePalma N-machine 2/18 - YouTube

 

[metis]

There is no alternative to fossil fuels for a cheap and abundant source of energy. Every other energy source we are aware of is more costly to create or extract. The use of arable land for growing ethanol crops is already devastating the food supply, especially in places that can not afford any disruption, like Africa.

Gas prices are going up because the world's supply of oil is limited. We have been finding fewer oil fields every year since the seventies, and the remaining sources are much more costly to extract (deep sea, tar sands, shale, etc). Even tapping these sources has failed to increase the supply for the last few years.

Basically, if you can't afford gas, you will need to give up driving. It will never get cheaper. Demand increases every year but the supply can not increase to meet it, and soon will start to decline. That means it will get more expensive every year until it's no longer available to the general public at all.

If you live in a hydro power region, your best bet is an electric car. In a coal region, you will save your gas money in the short term, but eventually have the same energy issue we at seeing with oil.

Excellent post, imo. Common sense should have it that energy conservation is a key, but certainly not the only one. The world is not standing still, and getting access to oil is getting more difficult, exemplified by drilling a mile down in the Gulf to try and get at it.

Switching more to natural gas has a couple of bonus points attached to it, but even that has its limitations. There's a lot we can do at home and at work to conserve energy, and some companies and people have done an excellent job of doing just that. Here in the States, we're generally going in the right direction on conservation, but the unfortunate reality is that much of the third world is going in totally the opposite, especially China and India (although China is making some strong strides going more green-- either they do that or pollute themselves out of existence).