Why NOT Religion

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Since the question "why religion" has been asked, I think it not inappropriate to begin a thread of my own, suggesting some (perhaps many, who knows how long I'll continue) some of the reasons that I sincerely do not like religion, and give others the chance to say why they do not.

Please feel free to tell me when you think I'm dead wrong, but ONLY if you are prepared to back up your criticism with a fact-based argument.

So, here are a few of my arguments, just to get things going:

• The discouragement of rational, critical thought. Christianity in particular discourages critical thinking. In essence, it makes people less intelligent by telling them that faith is just as good, or better, than arriving at a conclusion through deductive reasoning and evidence
  
• Nearly all religions treat homosexuality, a natural variation in orientation, as sinful and anathema, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide … I can give evidence of all of these
• People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality, and also dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help. Other deaths have been caused by people being choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
• Genital mutilation of babies or (worse) youths (male and female) for nothing but religious reasons
• Genuine psychological conditions not being properly treated, because they're blamed on "demons," resulting in avoidance of proper medical care
• Otherwise good people disowning their own families, or disfellowshipping or shunning members of their own communities over differences in religious opinion.
• Insistence on “Abstinence-only” sex education, which cause far more STDs and unwed pregnancies than necessary...and often resulting in soul-destroying shot-gun marriages
• Forcing women into life-threatening abortions by refusing to allow therapeutic abortions when they are genuinely appropriate, and the best solution in the circumstances
• Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings
• The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, e.g. Bamiyan Buddha's
  
• Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion
  
• Natural disasters and other tragedies being used to claim God is displeased with something or other, thus encouraging people to seek out that "something or other" and whack it (see Pat Robertson on Hurricane Katrina)

That will do to be going on with. I've lots and lots more, but I'll bet others can contribute to the list.

 

[Kenny]

Maybe it was for the reasons you stated that Mao Zedong, Mussolini, Joseph Stalin, et al did what they did.

It reminds me of another atheist, serial killerJeffrey Dahmer sentenced to 900 years in prison, who said “if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?”.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Maybe it was for the reasons you stated that Mao Zedong, Mussolini, Joseph Stalin, et al did what they did.

It reminds me of another atheist, serial killerJeffrey Dahmer sentenced to 900 years in prison, who said “if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?”.

There are crazies on every side. However, in any case, the OP presented a great argument.

 

[David T]

Since the question "why religion" has been asked, I think it not inappropriate to begin a thread of my own, suggesting some (perhaps many, who knows how long I'll continue) some of the reasons that I sincerely do not like religion, and give others the chance to say why they do not.

Please feel free to tell me when you think I'm dead wrong, but ONLY if you are prepared to back up your criticism with a fact-based argument.

So, here are a few of my arguments, just to get things going:

• The discouragement of rational, critical thought. Christianity in particular discourages critical thinking. In essence, it makes people less intelligent by telling them that faith is just as good, or better, than arriving at a conclusion through deductive reasoning and evidence
  
• Nearly all religions treat homosexuality, a natural variation in orientation, as sinful and anathema, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide … I can give evidence of all of these
• People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality, and also dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help. Other deaths have been caused by people being choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
• Genital mutilation of babies or (worse) youths (male and female) for nothing but religious reasons
• Genuine psychological conditions not being properly treated, because they're blamed on "demons," resulting in avoidance of proper medical care
• Otherwise good people disowning their own families, or disfellowshipping or shunning members of their own communities over differences in religious opinion.
• Insistence on “Abstinence-only” sex education, which cause far more STDs and unwed pregnancies than necessary...and often resulting in soul-destroying shot-gun marriages
• Forcing women into life-threatening abortions by refusing to allow therapeutic abortions when they are genuinely appropriate, and the best solution in the circumstances
• Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings
• The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, e.g. Bamiyan Buddha's
  
• Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion
  
• Natural disasters and other tragedies being used to claim God is displeased with something or other, thus encouraging people to seek out that "something or other" and whack it (see Pat Robertson on Hurricane Katrina)

That will do to be going on with. I've lots and lots more, but I'll bet others can contribute to the list.

RF WOULD CEASE TO EXIST. which its "soul" purpose is to be my personal entertainment center. Cheaper than netflix and its in real time.

Edit: mine was a why why not but it was worth keeping up. For entertaiemt value.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Maybe it was for the reasons you stated that Mao Zedong, Mussolini, Joseph Stalin, et al did what they did.

I would ask you not to forget what Torquemada and the Catholic Church did during the Inquisition, or the Protestant Henry VIII, or the Catholic Mary I, or all the various protagonists of the Reformation and Counter Reformation, all of whom, I am led to believe were "true believers."

I would ask why you don't mention the destruction of the Huguenots by the Catholic French state (Louis XIV).

I could go on, but I know that you've already chosen your villains and decided that what they did was the result of atheism. This, of course, is not true in even the slightest way, but you refuse to see that ideologies like Communism, Marxism, Stalinism, Fascism, and so forth are all equally "religious" in nature, in that they didn't stop doing what they were doing even after they had obviously failed … until thinking people stepped in and forced them to stop.

It reminds me of another atheist, serial killerJeffrey Dahmer sentenced to 900 years in prison, who said “if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?”

Frankly, Ken, there is no excuse for your putting that in this discussion. You are deliberately, and absolutely and egregiously incorrectly trying to associate atheism with the sick mind of a serial killer. I tell you this: you would be disgusted at me if I did the same with notorious Christian villains in an effort to sully you because you share their religion.

I think you should do the honourable thing and retract that statement. ​

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Since the question "why religion" has been asked, I think it not inappropriate to begin a thread of my own, suggesting some (perhaps many, who knows how long I'll continue) some of the reasons that I sincerely do not like religion, and give others the chance to say why they do not.

Please feel free to tell me when you think I'm dead wrong, but ONLY if you are prepared to back up your criticism with a fact-based argument.

So, here are a few of my arguments, just to get things going:

• The discouragement of rational, critical thought. Christianity in particular discourages critical thinking. In essence, it makes people less intelligent by telling them that faith is just as good, or better, than arriving at a conclusion through deductive reasoning and evidence
  
• Nearly all religions treat homosexuality, a natural variation in orientation, as sinful and anathema, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide … I can give evidence of all of these
• People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality, and also dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help. Other deaths have been caused by people being choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
• Genital mutilation of babies or (worse) youths (male and female) for nothing but religious reasons
• Genuine psychological conditions not being properly treated, because they're blamed on "demons," resulting in avoidance of proper medical care
• Otherwise good people disowning their own families, or disfellowshipping or shunning members of their own communities over differences in religious opinion.
• Insistence on “Abstinence-only” sex education, which cause far more STDs and unwed pregnancies than necessary...and often resulting in soul-destroying shot-gun marriages
• Forcing women into life-threatening abortions by refusing to allow therapeutic abortions when they are genuinely appropriate, and the best solution in the circumstances
• Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings
• The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, e.g. Bamiyan Buddha's
  
• Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion
  
• Natural disasters and other tragedies being used to claim God is displeased with something or other, thus encouraging people to seek out that "something or other" and whack it (see Pat Robertson on Hurricane Katrina)

That will do to be going on with. I've lots and lots more, but I'll bet others can contribute to the list.

I agree with your post overall, however, your claim that "Christianity in particular" discourages critical thinking the most is incorrect. Islam is far more oppressive than Christianity. And cults like Scientology are far more discouraging of critical thinking. Of course Christianity is oppressive as well, but not to the same extent. There is no death penalty for apostasy in Christianity. There is no female genital mutilation in Christianity. Christians don't fly planes into buildings. Of course, it's somehow politically correct to criticize Christianity but not Islam, which I do not understand.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Maybe it was for the reasons you stated that Mao Zedong, Mussolini, Joseph Stalin, et al did what they did.

It reminds me of another atheist, serial killerJeffrey Dahmer sentenced to 900 years in prison, who said “if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?”.

I don't need to believe in a magic sky daddy to treat other people with decency. Are you saying that you would become like them if you didn't believe the sky daddy was watching you?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I agree with your post overall, however, your claim that "Christianity in particular" discourages critical thinking the most is incorrect. Islam is far more oppressive than Christianity. And cults like Scientology are far more discouraging of critical thinking. Of course Christianity is oppressive as well, but not to the same extent. There is no death penalty for apostasy in Christianity. There is no female genital mutilation in Christianity. Christians don't fly planes into buildings. Of course, it's somehow politically correct to criticize Christianity but not Islam, which I do not understand.

Sorry, I'm just not as familiar with Islam, and so I tend to be more circumspect in what I assert about it. But then, you've said it, so it's now part of the thread.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Sorry, I'm just not as familiar with Islam, and so I tend to be more circumspect in what I assert about it. But then, you've said it, so it's now part of the thread.

Fair enough

 

[Kenny]

There are crazies on every side. However, in any case, the OP presented a great argument.

No greater than mine. I presented a great argument on why not atheism (admitting that there are crazies on both sides)

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

No greater than mine. I presented a great argument on why not atheism (admitting that there are crazies on both sides)

The points of the OP were not properly refuted.

 

[Kenny]

I would ask you not to forget what Torquemada and the Catholic Church did during the Inquisition, or the Protestant Henry VIII, or the Catholic Mary I, or all the various protagonists of the Reformation and Counter Reformation, all of whom, I am led to believe were "true believers."

I would ask why you don't mention the destruction of the Huguenots by the Catholic French state (Louis XIV).

I could go on, but I know that you've already chosen your villains and decided that what they did was the result of atheism. This, of course, is not true in even the slightest way, but you refuse to see that ideologies like Communism, Marxism, Stalinism, Fascism, and so forth are all equally "religious" in nature, in that they didn't stop doing what they were doing even after they had obviously failed … until thinking people stepped in and forced them to stop.

Frankly, Ken, there is no excuse for your putting that in this discussion. You are deliberately, and absolutely and egregiously incorrectly trying to associate atheism with the sick mind of a serial killer. I tell you this: you would be disgusted at me if I did the same with notorious Christian villains in an effort to sully you because you share their religion.

I think you should do the honourable thing and retract that statement. ​

What was good for the goose is good for the gander.

I could go on about atheists Napoleon Bonaparte and Alfred Kinsey too. Why don't you mention those?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

No greater than mine. I presented a great argument on why not atheism (admitting that there are crazies on both sides)

No you did not "present a great argument on why not atheism." You presented a great argument on "why not unjustified ideologies that make no allowance for human nature." One of those ideologies, by the way, is Christianity. Another is Islam. I'm sure you can think of more.

 

[Kenny]

The points of the OP were not properly refuted.

You did most of it for me... there are crazies on both sides but..

The discouragement of rational, critical thought. Christianity in particular discourages critical thinking.

Really? Do I even need to refute it?

 

[Kenny]

No you did not "present a great argument on why not atheism." You presented a great argument on "why not unjustified ideologies that make no allowance for human nature." One of those ideologies, by the way, is Christianity. Another is Islam. I'm sure you can think of more.

White washing atheists atrocities doesn't to you any better than me white washing the Catholic Church's inquisition.

And I repeat the great quote:

Jeffrey Dahmer who said “if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?”.

After all... who sets the line?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

What was good for the goose is good for the gander.

I could go on about atheists Napoleon Bonaparte and Alfred Kinsey too. Why don't you mention those?

Yes, so do "go on about atheists Napoleon Bonaparte and Alfred Kinsey." We're all dying to hear how it was atheism that led them to whatever it is you're going to claim about them.

 

[Kenny]

Yes, so do "go on about atheists Napoleon Bonaparte and Alfred Kinsey." We're all dying to hear how it was atheism that led them to whatever it is you're going to claim about them.

no problem...

Serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer said it best, " if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?”.

edit:

My point is simple, you can pull all the "crazies" you want on the Christianity side just like I can pull out all the crazies on the atheists side.

Because there are crazies on the religious side doesn't mean the answer is "Not Religion"

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

White washing atheists atrocities doesn't to you any better than me white washing the Catholic Church's inquisition.

I wonder why you cannot see the obvious. (Okay, I lie, I don't wonder at all, you have been conditioned to do just that).

Stalin, Mao, and other "atheists" did not do what they did because of atheism. They did what they did because of another ideology called "Communism." Their lack of belief in God was absolutely beside the point. Torquemada did what he did entirely because of his religious belief.

And I repeat the great quote:
After all... who sets the line?

Honestly, I don't get you. "Great quote?" Are you truly going to state without reserve, right here and right now, that if you lost your faith you would feel no constraint in becoming a serial killer? Then why am I not, since I've never had faith? Ken, if you're willing to stand by that, then you already have the makings of a serial killer within you, you're just too **** scared of GOD's WRATH to do anything about it. ​

 

[Kenny]

After all, I'm a critical thinker.

 

[Nakosis]

Since the question "why religion" has been asked, I think it not inappropriate to begin a thread of my own, suggesting some (perhaps many, who knows how long I'll continue) some of the reasons that I sincerely do not like religion, and give others the chance to say why they do not.

Please feel free to tell me when you think I'm dead wrong, but ONLY if you are prepared to back up your criticism with a fact-based argument.

So, here are a few of my arguments, just to get things going:

• The discouragement of rational, critical thought. Christianity in particular discourages critical thinking. In essence, it makes people less intelligent by telling them that faith is just as good, or better, than arriving at a conclusion through deductive reasoning and evidence
  
• Nearly all religions treat homosexuality, a natural variation in orientation, as sinful and anathema, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide … I can give evidence of all of these
• People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality, and also dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help. Other deaths have been caused by people being choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
• Genital mutilation of babies or (worse) youths (male and female) for nothing but religious reasons
• Genuine psychological conditions not being properly treated, because they're blamed on "demons," resulting in avoidance of proper medical care
• Otherwise good people disowning their own families, or disfellowshipping or shunning members of their own communities over differences in religious opinion.
• Insistence on “Abstinence-only” sex education, which cause far more STDs and unwed pregnancies than necessary...and often resulting in soul-destroying shot-gun marriages
• Forcing women into life-threatening abortions by refusing to allow therapeutic abortions when they are genuinely appropriate, and the best solution in the circumstances
• Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings
• The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, e.g. Bamiyan Buddha's
  
• Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion
  
• Natural disasters and other tragedies being used to claim God is displeased with something or other, thus encouraging people to seek out that "something or other" and whack it (see Pat Robertson on Hurricane Katrina)

That will do to be going on with. I've lots and lots more, but I'll bet others can contribute to the list.

God told me religious belief is not required.