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Why Old King James?
- Thread starter tomspug
- Start date
I know a lot of Christians who will use nothing else. I like the poetic language, but I prefer a more modern translations. If I want middle English, I read Shakespeare.
Francine
Well-Known Member
I don't find it hard to read at all. I happen to love the Elizabethan era English of the KJV and Shakespeare, but then I'm one of those libral arts college kids. Compare Psalm 23 in the KJV to any other version, and you might agree with me that it is the most beautiful English translation (and I'm a Catholic).
KJV Psalm 23
1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
NAB Psalm 23
1 The LORD is my shepherd; there is nothing I lack.
2 In green pastures you let me graze; to safe waters you lead me.
3 You restore my strength. You guide me along the right path for the sake of your name.
4 Even when I walk through a dark valley, I fear no harm for you are at my side; your rod and staff give me courage.
5 You set a table before me as my enemies watch; You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows.
6 Only goodness and love will pursue me all the days of my life; I will dwell in the house of the LORD for years to come.
Do you see? There's just no comparison.
tomspug
Absorbant
Well, technically, Shakespeare and Old King James are modern English, not middle English. It's just that no one speaks that way any more, so you can read it, but it just takes a long time to GET it, and sometimes you encounter words that no one uses anymore (like Shakespeare). I usually have another Bible translation to read alongside Old King James just so I can get an idea of what I'm looking at.
You've lost me. (I don't say that very often, either). What are you talking about?
tomspug
Absorbant
Col. 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
There you go! I used the NIV (identical in NKJV) to figure out what you were saying.
tomspug
Absorbant
Also, I think that this is a good example of Old King James mistranslation. Concupiscence refers to a particular kind of lust.
Concupiscence
desire, Rom. 7:8 (R.V., "coveting"); Col. 3:5 (R.V., "desire"). The "lust of concupiscence" (1 Thess. 4:5; R.V., "passion of lust") denotes evil desire, indwelling sin.
Concupiscence
desire, Rom. 7:8 (R.V., "coveting"); Col. 3:5 (R.V., "desire"). The "lust of concupiscence" (1 Thess. 4:5; R.V., "passion of lust") denotes evil desire, indwelling sin.
Concupiscense is a word that means agreeing with someone just to get along. I wasn't doing that. When I said I did what Tomspug did, I meant that I really did do it. If I don't agree with someone, I say so.
Smoke
Done here.
I think the main reason people find the King James Version difficult is typographical. It's always set up with each verse beginning on a new line, never in paragraphs or in lines of poetry, and that makes it more difficult to read. The translation itself is superior to most of the modern ones, and I don't generally find it difficult or unclear. I'll gladly take this:
Most of the time, the Hebrew text is peripheral to my interest.
I will read the New Revised Standard Version, which is the only Protestant version other than the King James that I have much use for. Generally speaking, the Catholic versions are superior to the Protestant versions in every respect. But the King James Version and the Prayer Book of 1662 are monuments of the language that every English speaker should take the time to know.
Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness:
according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight:
that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
over any of these:according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight:
that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
You are kind, God!
Please have pity on me.
You are always merciful!
Please wipe away my sins.
Wash me clean from all
of my sin and guilt.
I know about my sins,
and I cannot forget
my terrible guilt.
You are really the one
I have sinned against;
I have disobeyed you
and have done wrong.
So it is right and fair for you
to correct and punish me.
***
God, be merciful to me
because you are loving.
Because you are always ready to be merciful,
wipe out all my wrongs.
Wash away all my guilt
and make me clean again.
I know about my wrongs,
and I can't forget my sin.
You are the only one I have sinned against;
I have done what you say is wrong.
You are right when you speak
and fair when you judge.
***
Generous in love—God, give grace!
Huge in mercy—wipe out my bad record.
Scrub away my guilt,
soak out my sins in your laundry.
I know how bad I've been;
my sins are staring me down.
You're the One I've violated, and you've seen
it all, seen the full extent of my evil.
You have all the facts before you;
whatever you decide about me is fair.
As for the textual issues, I'm not really that interested in trying to recover some fabled original reading. What's of interest to me is the text as it was received by the Church over the centuries, so my main problem with the KJV is that I'd prefer an Old Testament based on the Septuagint, or failing that, the Vulgate. That is, for my purposes I'm generally looking at the Jewish scriptures as the Old Testament of the Christian, and not as the Tanakh, and when I am looking at it as the Tanakh for some reason, I have to bring a whole different outlook and a whole different set of books. Please have pity on me.
You are always merciful!
Please wipe away my sins.
Wash me clean from all
of my sin and guilt.
I know about my sins,
and I cannot forget
my terrible guilt.
You are really the one
I have sinned against;
I have disobeyed you
and have done wrong.
So it is right and fair for you
to correct and punish me.
***
God, be merciful to me
because you are loving.
Because you are always ready to be merciful,
wipe out all my wrongs.
Wash away all my guilt
and make me clean again.
I know about my wrongs,
and I can't forget my sin.
You are the only one I have sinned against;
I have done what you say is wrong.
You are right when you speak
and fair when you judge.
***
Generous in love—God, give grace!
Huge in mercy—wipe out my bad record.
Scrub away my guilt,
soak out my sins in your laundry.
I know how bad I've been;
my sins are staring me down.
You're the One I've violated, and you've seen
it all, seen the full extent of my evil.
You have all the facts before you;
whatever you decide about me is fair.
Most of the time, the Hebrew text is peripheral to my interest.I will read the New Revised Standard Version, which is the only Protestant version other than the King James that I have much use for. Generally speaking, the Catholic versions are superior to the Protestant versions in every respect. But the King James Version and the Prayer Book of 1662 are monuments of the language that every English speaker should take the time to know.
I do not either...
I would be hard pressed to trade my KJV in for another... I absolutley love the language.
Francine
Well-Known Member
I think the hard thing for me would be the reverse. It would be hard for me to take something written in, say, Egyptian, and turn it into something that reads like the King James Bible. I would keep drifting toward my native American tongue, and every time I caught myself doing that I would need to throw in phrases like "It came to pass" or "exceedingly fair and white" to get back on track.
Smoke
Done here.
You are a wicked girl.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Usually of the lewd and baser sort!
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Pray tell, why is it wrong?
One advantage of having/using the old KJV is its precision of use with literary English.
In current English there is no distinction in:
2nd person pronoun
You (singular subject)
you (singular object)
You (plural subject)
you (plural object)
The KJV makes the distinctions in this way:
Thou (singular subject)
thee (singular object)
Ye (plural subject)
you (plural object)
compare also:
thy, thine
your, yours
In current English there is no distinction in:
2nd person pronoun
You (singular subject)
you (singular object)
You (plural subject)
you (plural object)
The KJV makes the distinctions in this way:
Thou (singular subject)
thee (singular object)
Ye (plural subject)
you (plural object)
compare also:
thy, thine
your, yours