Why should a Christian even look into Islam as a Possible true Faith?

[blü 2]

Are you sure?

All five versions of Jesus deny they're God and never claim to be God. The "before Abraham was, I am" line refers to John's Jesus, like Paul's, pre-existing in heaven and creating the material universe. John's Jesus, incidentally, is the most emphatic of all five versions about not being God eg

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.​

​

John 5:19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”​

​

John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own authority; [...] I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”​

​

John 6:38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me”​

​

John 8:42 “I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.”​

​

John 10:29 “My Father [...] is greater than all”.​

​

John 14:10 “The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.”​

​

John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”​

​

John 20:17 “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”​

In Mark 2, Jesus heals the paralytic man and forgives his sins. The scribes who were there called this blasphemy because only God has authority to forgive sin (see Isaiah 43:25). This was a claim to be God. Luke records this claim also in Luke 5:20.

Mark's Jesus denies he's God:

Mark 2:10 “the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins”

Mark 12: 29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;” ... 32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;

Remember that Mark's Jesus, unlike the other four, was simply an ordinary Jewish male until his baptism by JtB, at which point the heavens opened and God adopted him as [his] son, as God had earlier adopted David (Psalm 2:7) ─ as further confirmed in Acts 13:33.

Mark 12:35-37
"While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked, “Why do the teachers of the law say that the Messiah is the son of David?David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared:

'The Lord said to my Lord:
Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.

David himself calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?
The large crowd listened to him with delight."

This agenda is already disproven by Christian Theists.

But the job of the apologist is the job of the defense attorney, to get the client off the hook by whatever means are to hand.

Matthew follows the line of David's son Solomon, while Luke follows the line of Nathan, another Son of David. The end result is two distinct genealogies.

Those two "genealogies" are irreconcilable and anyway both are expressly for Joseph, who in Matthew and in Luke is categorically NOT Jesus' father.

Please bring your evidence.

That the bible is full of miracle stories? You surely can answer that yourself.

That it's full of factual errors? We could start with the Creation, move through the Garden story, and talk about the Flood, for a start. As well, the earth is not flat, the sky is not a hard dome you can walk on, the earth is not immovably fixed, and so on ─ >here< are some illustrations. There is no archaeological evidence to support the Egyptian captivity or the Exodus. And so on.

Or in the NT, is Jesus an ordinary Jewish male adopted by God or not (Mark), is Jesus born of a virgin or not (Matthew, Luke), did Jesus create the material universe or not (Paul, John), was Jesus descended from David (Paul, Matthew, Luke, John) or not (Mark), is Matthew 28:18 correct in saying that after Jesus ascended, God resigned as ruler of the universe, thus is no longer relevant to human affairs, and let Jesus take over? Did Jesus really ride into Jerusalem as Matthew 21:7 claims, astride both a foal and a donkey?

 

[2ndpillar]

It filters out everything, including microplastics.

That sounds like a convenient setup. I had thought that polypropylene membranes would be the best filter membranes, because I had read somewhere the polypropylene was not found in human blood. I'm not sure now and don't have the study handy. I believe it is from the Environment International journal. If true than I think its best to find out which water filter membranes are polypropylene. I realize of course that I can't avoid microplastics altogether. I try because they are found in blood plaques.

I am wondering if that three stage system can filter out microplastics?

It filters out everything, including microplastics. It also has one stage with activated charcoal, which absorbs heavy metals. Delivery was somewhat slow. I think they have back log problems. Too much demand. For my pitcher model, which I gave to my neighbor, it took like 3 months.
A 2014 study tested whether activated carbon could remove heavy metals from drinking water.

The researchers found that activated carbon removed, for example, 90% of nickel from drinking water. However, it was less effective than a combined water treatment of activated carbon and silica.

 

[Dimi95]

All five versions of Jesus deny they're God and never claim to be God.

False
I have shown you in each gospel where he clearly claims to be God - clearly and there is not any content criticist who can say otherwise.

The "before Abraham was, I am" line refers to John's Jesus, like Paul's, pre-existing in heaven and creating the material universe. John's Jesus, incidentally, is the most emphatic of all five versions about not being God eg

Noup , 'I am' is in Mark 14 also.

Mark 14
"They took Jesus to the high priest, and all the chief priests, the elders and the teachers of the law came together.Peter followed him at a distance, right into the courtyard of the high priest. There he sat with the guards and warmed himself at the fire.
The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death, but they did not find any.Many testified falsely against him, but their statements did not agree.
Then some stood up and gave this false testimony against him: "We heard him say, 'I will destroy this temple made with human hands and in three days will build another, not made with hands.' "Yet even then their testimony did not agree.

Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, 'Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?' But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.

AGAIN the high priest asked him, 'Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?'

'I AM,' said Jesus. 'And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.'

The high priest tore his clothes. "Why do we need any more witnesses?' he asked. 'You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?'

They all condemned him as worthy of death.Then some began to spit at him; they blindfolded him, struck him with their fists, and said, “Prophesy!” And the guards took him and beat him."

I have noted what is to be noted

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.​

​

The μονογενὴς is best translated as 'only-begotten' than 'only produced' to cohere with the scope of parent-to-offspring relationship in which the word is used (John 1:18, 1 John 4:9). To beget means to make someone have one's nature.
Thus, the word μονογενὴς encapsulates the idea of 'only child' not 'only created' as its primary semantic locus.

John 5:19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”​

John 5:20-27
"For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man."

​

John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own authority; [...] I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”​

​

John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me”​

​

John 8:42 “I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.”​

​

John 10:29 “My Father [...] is greater than all”.​

​

John 14:10 “The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.”​

​

John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”​

​

John 20:17 “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”​

First John 5:30,then 6:38,then 8:42,then 10:29,then 14:10,then 17:3,then 20:17

Only between Jonn 5:30 and 6:38 theee are 75 verses which manipulates the story

Mark's Jesus denies he's God:

Mark 2:10 “the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins”

Mark 12: 29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;” ... 32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;

Nope , 'I am' from Mark 14 is enough to dismiss these nonsense interpretation.

Remember that Mark's Jesus, unlike the other four, was simply an ordinary Jewish male until his baptism by JtB, at which point the heavens opened and God adopted him as [his] son, as God had earlier adopted David (Psalm 2:7) ─ as further confirmed in Acts 13:33.

Nope , Daniel 7 disagrees

But the job of the apologist is the job of the defense attorney, to get the client off the hook by whatever means are to hand.

Are you trying to interprete the statistical evidence in criminal trials?
This is argument of ignorance

Those two "genealogies" are irreconcilable and anyway both are expressly for Joseph, who in Matthew and in Luke is categorically NOT Jesus' father.

But he accepted Jesus as it is explained in the same Gospels that you are reffering to.
Why the constant ignorance?

That the bible is full of miracle stories? You surely can answer that yourself.

So what if it has miracles?
We have seen Miracles in Modern Age where we have Science also.
The only difference is that you say : "That doesn't mean God it".

That it's full of factual errors? We could start with the Creation, move through the Garden story, and talk about the Flood, for a start. As well, the earth is not flat, the sky is not a hard dome you can walk on, the earth is not immovably fixed, and so on ─ >here< are some illustrations. There is no archaeological evidence to support the Egyptian captivity or the Exodus. And so on.

That's the point of miracles , to defile the laws of nature - by definition.

However some events in Genesis have symbolic meaning for me as for many others.

Or in the NT, is Jesus an ordinary Jewish male adopted by God or not (Mark), is Jesus born of a virgin or not (Matthew, Luke)

The Gospels are accounts of different people , not from one man.

, did Jesus create the material universe or not (Paul, John)

It is explained in every Gospel where Jesus claims to be God.
You seem to ignore that argument.

, was Jesus descended from David (Paul, Matthew, Luke, John) or not (Mark), is Matthew 28:18 correct in saying that after Jesus ascended, God resigned as ruler of the universe, thus is no longer relevant to human affairs, and let Jesus take over? Did Jesus really ride into Jerusalem as Matthew 21:7 claims, astride both a foal and a donkey?

Your problem are the differences in the Gospels and you refuse to reason with anything that is noted.

What is very clear is this 'Bart Ehrman' aproach,but he was debunked multiple times..

 

[YoursTrue]

False
I have shown you in each gospel where he clearly claims to be God - clearly and there is not any content criticist who can say otherwise.


Noup , 'I am' is in Mark 14 also.

Mark 14
"They took Jesus to the high priest, and all the chief priests, the elders and the teachers of the law came together.Peter followed him at a distance, right into the courtyard of the high priest. There he sat with the guards and warmed himself at the fire.
The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death, but they did not find any.Many testified falsely against him, but their statements did not agree.
Then some stood up and gave this false testimony against him: "We heard him say, 'I will destroy this temple made with human hands and in three days will build another, not made with hands.' "Yet even then their testimony did not agree.

Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, 'Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?' But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.

AGAIN the high priest asked him, 'Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?'

'I AM,' said Jesus. 'And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.'

The high priest tore his clothes. "Why do we need any more witnesses?' he asked. 'You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?'

They all condemned him as worthy of death.Then some began to spit at him; they blindfolded him, struck him with their fists, and said, “Prophesy!” And the guards took him and beat him."

I have noted what is to be noted



The μονογενὴς is best translated as 'only-begotten' than 'only produced' to cohere with the scope of parent-to-offspring relationship in which the word is used (John 1:18, 1 John 4:9). To beget means to make someone have one's nature.
Thus, the word μονογενὴς encapsulates the idea of 'only child' not 'only created' as its primary semantic locus.


John 5:20-27
"For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man."


First John 5:30,then 6:38,then 8:42,then 10:29,then 14:10,then 17:3,then 20:17

Only between Jonn 5:30 and 6:38 theee are 75 verses which manipulates the story



Nope , 'I am' from Mark 14 is enough to dismiss these nonsense interpretation.




Nope , Daniel 7 disagrees


Are you trying to interprete the statistical evidence in criminal trials?
This is argument of ignorance


But he accepted Jesus as it is explained in the same Gospels that you are reffering to.
Why the constant ignorance?


So what if it has miracles?
We have seen Miracles in Modern Age where we have Science also.
The only difference is that you say : "That doesn't mean God it".


That's the point of miracles , to defile the laws of nature - by definition.

However some events in Genesis have symbolic meaning for me as for many others.




The Gospels are accounts of different people , not from one man.


It is explained in every Gospel where Jesus claims to be God.
You seem to ignore that argument.


Your problem are the differences in the Gospels and you refuse to reason with anything that is noted.

What is very clear is this 'Bart Ehrman' aproach,but he was debunked multiple times..

Hi. I'm just wondering, I know you posted scriptures about Jesus being God and you also posted scriptures as to how his persecutors beat him up. How do you explain that God can be beaten up?

 

[Dimi95]

Hi. I'm just wondering, I know you posted scriptures about Jesus being God and you also posted scriptures as to how his persecutors beat him up. How do you explain that God can be beaten up?

I have asked myself several times this question.

And i could never understand why.
I always stopped at this 'Why' In my questions(We do also question Jesus' charachter , just to be noted)

Why to do all these things , for what?
Why to let all of that , if you have all the power?
Do you know what wad crucifixition? It's slow death , agony , drawning in your own blood.
No one has ever survived crucifixition in that part of human history.

To imagine that is painfull enough..

And in this procces of questioning i was faced with these kind of verses:

John 1:11
"He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him."

 

[YoursTrue]

I have asked myself several times this question.

And i could never understand why.
I always stopped at this 'Why' In my questions(We do also question Jesus' charachter , just to be noted)

Why to do all these things , for what?
Why to let all of that , if you have all the power?
Do you know what wad crucifixition? It's slow death , agony , drawning in your own blood.
No one has ever survived crucifixition in that part of human history.

To imagine that is painfull enough..

And in this procces of questioning i was faced with these kind of verses:

John 1:11
"He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him."

I appreciate your honesty, @Dimi95 about how you align the scriptures. I was reading Psalm 22 as part of our weekly Bible reading and see how much was related to the Christ. Yet he, the Christ, cried out, "My God, my God, why have you abandoned me".
"At noon the whole country was covered with darkness, which lasted for three hours. 46 At about three o'clock Jesus cried out with a loud shout, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why did you abandon me?” (Matthew chapter 27, relating Jesus' death)

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Jesus clearly said, No one comes to the Father except through Me. As Bible also says, clearly Jesus is Son of God. He died for the sins of others. As long as one believes in Jesus, he or she will be in heaven.
Beside this, there is no where in the Bible that says, after Jesus, God will reveal another Book called Quran through a Prophet called Muhammad from Arabia.
Jesus taught Love. After Him, no need for a false prophet to come and teach war.

So, three things for the Muslims to respond:

1. Do you even consider that your religion can be false? When did Jesus say, Muhammad comes. He warned there will be many false prophets.

2. Why should even a Christian believe for one Moment Islam can even possibly be true religion, when clearly Jesus said He is the only way to the Father. He clearly said, that He is the only Son of God?

3. Do you even care to have an answer to these questions, or you are just so sure that your religion is true, and you go to heaven. Do you consider that, your beliefs could just be based on Geographical location or family, and that from childhood you were brainwashed to believe Islam is true? Maybe you were brainwashed, how do you know?

I want to see how Muslims respond to these questions?

I am neither Christian nor Muslim. I'm Jewish. But I'd like to reply if I may.

First, you need to understand that your entire post is built on a lot of assumptions. For example, you say "Jesus clearly said" and "The bible also says" as if the Bible is a reliable source of information about God. Now, I'm not opposed to having a sacred text--being Jewish, I'm particularly fond of the Torah. But no evidence exists that your Bible is "the Word of God." That is a religious belief of yours, a form of blind faith.

Furthermore, it is a belief that not everyone shares. I do not accept your NT at all, just as I don't accept the Quran or Book of Mormon. So it makes no sense for you to point out that the Bible says nothing about the Quran. Heck, the Tanakh (what you call the Old Testament) says nothing about a New Testament, but there you go.

Next, as to your first question about whether I ever consider that my religion may be false. Absolutely. I believe in God, but I may even be wrong about that.

On to question 2: you are making the mistake of jumping the gun. The REAL point of questioning, is questioning whether your religious text is accurate. As long as you keep tagging "when the Bible says" onto the end of every question, you are MISSING THE POINT.

In general I think that it is a good thing to learn about other religions, and to question our assumptions. Let me ask you this: can you really choose Jesus if you have never entertained the possibility that something else may be true instead?

Now for #3. I think most people, YOURSELF INCLUDED, never question what they believe. In most cases, they grew up with it, and all the people they trust believe it. To question their religion is to admit that their parents, their friends, their community is not trustworthy.

So now that I have answered your questions, how about you answering your own questions, but let's flip them so that it is a Jew asking a Christian.

1. Do you ever stop to consider that your Chrsitian faith may be in error? After all, the Tanakh (Old Testament) teaches FOUR TIMES that God is not a man, yet Christians say that quite the contrary God became a man.

2. Why should a Jew consider even for one moment that Jesus is the messiah, when the truth is that Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies?

3. Do you even care to have an answer to these questions, or you are just so sure that your religion is true, and you go to heaven. Do you consider that, your beliefs could just be based on Geographical location or family, and that from childhood you were brainwashed to believe Islam is true? Maybe you were brainwashed, how do you know?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I appreciate your honesty, @Dimi95 about how you align the scriptures. I was reading Psalm 22 as part of our weekly Bible reading and see how much was related to the Christ. Yet he, the Christ, cried out, "My God, my God, why have you abandoned me".

So if I quote from Romeo and Juliet, that means that Romeo and Juliet is about me?

 

[Dimi95]

I appreciate your honesty, @Dimi95 about how you align the scriptures. I was reading Psalm 22 as part of our weekly Bible reading and see how much was related to the Christ. Yet he, the Christ, cried out, "My God, my God, why have you abandoned me".
"At noon the whole country was covered with darkness, which lasted for three hours. 46 At about three o'clock Jesus cried out with a loud shout, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why did you abandon me?” (Matthew chapter 27, relating Jesus' death)

You have to understand the meaning of 'I will speak in parables'.That tells us that not everything will be so clear.

Jesus fullfils many prophecies in the Crucifixition day.

Do you know how many ?

 

[YoursTrue]

You have to understand the meaning of 'I will speak in parables'.That tells us that not everything will be so clear.

Jesus fullfils many prophecies in the Crucifixition day.

Do you know how many ?

Not quite sure although we just read the 22 Psalm, very touching and sad. That was fulfilled in Jesus execution.

 

[Dimi95]

Not quite sure although we just read the 22 Psalm, very touching and sad. That was fulfilled in Jesus execution.

Which explains also the sayings in:
Matthew 23:
"Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation."

This is Jesus saying "Therefore i am sending you.."
And they you read : "So upon you will come all the righteous blood of righteous Abel to the Blood of Zacheriah."

Zacheriah 11

This is what the Lord my God says: "Shepherd the flock marked for slaughter.
Their buyers slaughter them and go unpunished. Those who sell them say, 'Praise the Lord, I am rich!' Their own shepherds do not spare them.For I will no longer have pity on the people of the land,' declares the Lord."I will give everyone into the hands of their neighbors and their king. They will devastate the land, and I will not rescue anyone from their hands.”
So I shepherded the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I shepherded the flock.In one month I got rid of the three shepherds.
The flock detested me, and I grew weary of them and said, 'I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another's flesh.'
Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.It was revoked on that day, and so the oppressed of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the Lord.
I told them, 'If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.' So they paid me thirty pieces of silver.

And the Lord said to me, 'Throw it to the potter'—the handsome price at which they valued me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them to the potter at the house of the Lord."

It is because of this prophecy that scholars started to argue about Judas.

This indicates that Judas fullfills this prophecy in Matthew and you can also note the blood of Abel and Zacheriah.
It does symbolize something.
However this does not tells us that Jesus is prophet , since Abel is not described as prophet in the Bible.

Abel means : 'Breath,Vapor'

Breath is a word that has different meanings
One may say it is:
the air taken into or expelled from the lungs.
"I was gasping for breath"

As other may say:
"an inhalation or exhalation of air from the lungs.
plural noun: breaths
"she drew in a quick breath"

But neither of that will disprove the fact that Breath is the power of maintaing life and consciousness.

Zacheriah means 'God remembers'

"God/YHWH remembers". It comes from the Hebrew root זכר, meaning to remember, and yah, one of the names of the God of Israel."

Yeshua in Hebrew is a verbal derivative from 'to rescue', 'to deliver'. Among the Jews of the Second Temple period, the Biblical Aramaic/Hebrew name יֵשׁוּעַ, Yēšūaʿ was common: the Hebrew Bible mentions several individuals with this name – while also using their full name Joshua.

Yeshu (Hebrew: יֵשׁוּ‎ Yēšū) is the name of an individual or individuals mentioned in rabbinic literature, thought by some to refer to Jesus when used in the Talmud. The name Yeshu is also used in other sources before and after the completion of the Babylonian Talmud. It is also the modern Israeli spelling of Jesus.

Yeshu - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

People say that "Yahweh is salvation" is more accurate , but that is only Galilean dialect form of Yeshua.

Here is another source outside the Bible:
"Tacitus on Jesus - Wikipedia"

Here is Isaiah 44:6
"This is what the LORD says— Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God."

The Bible - alone(sola scriptuta) is not proper Christian belief.
It still necessities the belief in the Apostoles.

Jesus appeared to the eleven disciples as they sat eating. Jesus accused them of unbelief because they did not believe those who had allegedly seen him after he had risen. Jesus: 'Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.'

It's a demonstration that Christian belief does not support sola scriptura.
Without the traditional teachings there is no Bible , that is why we say that even from the early Church Father letters we can make a Bible.

 

[YoursTrue]

It's a demonstration that Christian belief does not support sola scriptura.
Without the traditional teachings there is no Bible , that is why we say that even from the early Church Father letters we can make a Bible.

We can? I haven't examined all the socalled church fathers but I am satisfied with what I have now. And look for, hope and expect great wondrous things to happen. How about you,?

 

[Dimi95]

We can? I haven't examined all the socalled church fathers but I am satisfied with what I have now. And look for, hope and expect great wondrous things to happen. How about you,?

Yes , we can.
That's not a matter of belief , it is a fact.

You are satisfied with what you have now because it is a consequence of tradition.
You have the Bible as a consequence of how the Early Church Fathers transmissed early teachings.
Tradition is the transmission of customs or beliefs from generation to generation, or the fact of being passed on in this way.

Formally, two Churches can claim the right - Roman and Orthodox.

I have always said that one should seek to find for himself between the two Churches.
At some time when looking more deep in that 'issue' it becomes pretty clear that it's not even a discussion.

Roman Church doctrine of the Trinity has just confused the actual doctrine that was established in the Early Church.It has only destabilized the position of the Christian Church.

But that does not mean that they are not Christians.

Many have been disinformed about what is heresy.The word "heresy" comes from the Greek αἵρεσις, hairesis (from αιρεομαι, haireomai, "choose")

 

[2ndpillar]

We can? I haven't examined all the socalled church fathers but I am satisfied with what I have now. And look for, hope and expect great wondrous things to happen. How about you,?

After the "day of distress" (Jeremiah 16:29), or "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31 - Joel 3-8), when the "nations"/Gentiles are judged, the survivors of the "nations"/Gentiles will "come from the ends of the earth and say, "Our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood". That will with respect to the day when "any who are left of all the nations"/Gentiles, after Har-Magedon (Rev 16:16), will go up "from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths", in "Jerusalem. Which is to say, you have been "deceived" (Rev 13:14) by the "dragon"/"devil", by way of the "beast with two horns like a lamb", the Roman emperor Constantine, and his Roman Church, by way of his two horns like a lamb, the Christ like shepherds (Zech 11:7), Peter, the "worthless shepherd" of Zech 11:17, and Paul, the shepherd called "Favor" (Zech 11:10), because of his false gospel of Grace, which supposedly has God bless you with greater abundance with respect to how sinful you are, with respect to his favor on you.

 

[Dimi95]

After the "day of distress" (Jeremiah 16:29), or "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31 - Joel 3-8), when the "nations"/Gentiles are judged, the survivors of the "nations"/Gentiles will "come from the ends of the earth and say, "Our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood". That will with respect to the day when "any who are left of all the nations"/Gentiles, after Har-Magedon (Rev 16:16), will go up "from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths", in "Jerusalem. Which is to say, you have been "deceived" (Rev 13:14) by the "dragon"/"devil", by way of the "beast with two horns like a lamb", the Roman emperor Constantine, and his Roman Church, by way of his two horns like a lamb, the Christ like shepherds (Zech 11:7), Peter, the "worthless shepherd" of Zech 11:17, and Paul, the shepherd called "Favor" (Zech 11:10), because of his false gospel of Grace, which supposedly has God bless you with greater abundance with respect to how sinful you are, with respect to his favor on you.

This here is evidence of an agenda without any logical premise.

This is considered heretical in theology.

By their fruits you will know them.

What man can note in your explenations is how you twist verses to accuse.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Maybe you should "repent", turn from your sins

Atheists don't sin in the sense you mean. That's for you and others who believe as you do to worry about.

Lost souls, often end up killing themselves, which often occurs with gays and trans.

The Abrahamic religions make their lives harder, and if you can convince them that they abominations in the eyes of a good god, it's not surprising that some will become despondent. You just called them lost souls, and some will believe that. I doubt that you care.

 

[Dimi95]

You just called them lost souls, and some will believe that. I doubt that you care.

This explains extreme religious agenda , sadly..
However i don't see any usufull thing in the previous answers.

I think that Atheist-Theist discussion should take different course.There is no need of attacking the person on the other side with such statements.

It has to do with the doctrine of Hell from which many take this accusations.

"You will burn in Hell"

Yeah , sure - that is your best answer..

I could care less

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You have to understand the meaning of 'I will speak in parables'.That tells us that not everything will be so clear.

Jesus fullfils many prophecies in the Crucifixition day.

Do you know how many ?

a hundred? 500? a thousand? i keep up with it. every year, the number of so called prophecies Jesus fulfilled seem to grow greater and greater.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It has to do with the doctrine of Hell from which many take this accusations. "You will burn in Hell" Yeah , sure - that is your best answer.. I could care less

Agreed. I also couldn't care less about things like sin and hell - threats that only have power over those willing to let them.

 

[Dimi95]

a hundred? 500? a thousand? i keep up with it. every year, the number of so called prophecies Jesus fulfilled seem to grow greater and greater.

Why , would it make any difference showing them to you?

It's all just numbers to you as your statement is showing.