Why should a Christian even look into Islam as a Possible true Faith?

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Salam

I left Islam for 5 years due to misunderstanding of Quran at first and seeing what I thought were logical problems and contradictions. Then when I came back to Islam, there came a period when I would believe in the morning and disbelieve in night, and believe in the night and disbelieve in the morning.

I didn't consider Christianity back then because I thought it taught Trinity. If I was aware of Jehovah Witnesses interpretation of Christianity I might have considered it back then. But I did read the Bible and found it to had contradictions, but was not willing to believe in Trinity, but considered Judaism. If it didn't have the contradictions I might have considered it more and went to people for queries.

I read a lot of new age books - and didn't believe in hell for a while.

The biggest block after I solved the problems that I had with Quran, is the belief in hell. This was the biggest emotional block for me to accept Islam as I don't want many people I know going to hell.

Quran is mistranslated and some Christians conclude on those mistranslations, it's a wrong religion. Right now, I believe in human rights. So if Quran was read as translated and I didn't know Arabic, I probably would not believe in it due to it allowing per translations slavery for example. Can I blame people who believe in human rights for rejecting Quran because the translations they read all have slavery as part of it's what it allows?

Quran is not easy to accept. It might seem easy for Muslims because of the bias they grow up with.

Some Christians might reject it for stuff like Ramadan not accounting for all the times on earth or hijaab or minor details. I don't know how it feels like to research another religion to see if it's true from outsider perspective but not knowing enough about it to dismiss or believe in it.

The most important thing for every human, is to seek truth while trying to not deceive oneself.

When did Quran begin to click for me? Let me say, it was not my accord but what I was told mysteriously began to make it all click. I can't say too much about this but suffice to say, when it clicked it exponentially got different and higher in my mind and heart.

 

[Ebionite]

Baha’is believe that the 2,300 years came in 1844 and the book was unsealed by Baha’u’llah. That math is explained in Some Answered Questions, 10: TRADITIONAL PROOFS EXEMPLIFIED FROM THE BOOK OF DANIEL

The Baha'i calculation is based on the assumption that the sacrifice and oblation ceased with the crucifixion. Since the idea that Christ died a martyrs death isn't supported by the prophets, the calculation has an error.

But Daniel mentions two dates. One of these dates begins with the command of Artaxerxes to Ezra to rebuild Jerusalem: this is the seventy weeks which came to an end with the ascension of Christ, when by His martyrdom the sacrifice and oblation ceased.

 

[Ebionite]

The most important thing for every human, is to seek truth while trying to not deceive oneself.

In the context of Christianity the most important truth for humans to know relates to security relationships with Rome and with deity.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Baha'i calculation is based on the assumption that the sacrifice and oblation ceased with the crucifixion. Since the idea that Christ died a martyrs death isn't supported by the prophets, the calculation has an error.

I am sorry, I am not familiar with the Bible so I don't know anything about that calculation, but I do know that calculation is dependent upon Bible interpretation, so it is a matter of personal opinion as to whether it is accurate.

It is notable that Christian Bible scholars had come up with the same date using their own calculations, which is why they were expecting Christ to return on that date.

Great Disappointment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ebionite]

but I do know that calculation is dependent upon Bible interpretation, so it is a matter of personal opinion as to whether it is accurate.

Interpretations are more than simple opinion, they can be measured by heuristics like Baron Parke's rule.

From reddit:

In 1844, in Shiraz, the Bab, Baha’u’llah’s immediate forerunner, spoke these words:The secret of the Day that is to come is now concealed. It can neither be divulged nor estimated. The newly born babe of that Day excels the wisest and most venerable men of this time, and the lowliest and most unlearned of that period shall surpass in understanding the most erudite and accomplished divines of this age.[1]

A short time before, on the other side of the planet on 24 May 1844, within a day of the Bab’s declaration of his mission, Samuel Morse, the inventor of the telegraph sent its first message from Washington to Baltimore. The message read as follows: What hath God Wrought? , citing a passage from the Bible.

God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.
Surely [there is] no enchantment against Jacob, neither [is there] any divination against Israel: according to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!
Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat [of] the prey, and drink the blood of the slain.
Numbers 23:22-24

 

[Trailblazer]

God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.
Surely [there is] no enchantment against Jacob, neither [is there] any divination against Israel: according to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!
Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat [of] the prey, and drink the blood of the slain.
Numbers 23:22-24

Do you have a point to make?

 

[Ebionite]

Do you have a point to make?

Baha'i has a role in the understanding of the end times, but it's not an exclusive one.

1844 relates to Ephraim, the grandson of Jacob as well to the understanding spoken of by Bab. Shiraz is famous for its wine, and Iran (Persia) is associated with Iraq (Babylon). Wine is a symbol of the punishment of Babylon.

And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Revelation 16:19

Wine is also associated with the Crown of Ephraim/England:

Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty [is] a fading flower, which [are] on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!
Isaiah 28:1

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I didn't consider Christianity back then because I thought it taught Trinity.

The reason you think Trinity is wrong, is because Islam says so.
you don't know really if God has a son or not. Maybe He does, and maybe Christians are right.

Let me ask you this:
you believe Mary mother of Jesus got pregnant without having intercourse with a man, do you not?
why don't you consider this special and miraculous sign, as an evidence that Jesus indeed is Son of God, and His Spirit came down from Heaven?

otherwise answer this: why should among All beings, only Jesus is born in this way?

If I was aware of Jehovah Witnesses interpretation of Christianity I might have considered it back then. But I did read the Bible and found it to had contradictions, but was not willing to believe in Trinity, but considered Judaism. If it didn't have the contradictions I might have considered it more and went to people for queries.

The Issue with this logic is, you say, you believe in the Quran. And Quran confirms the Bible, and Jesus as Messiah.
Thus, you must first believe in the Bible, then from believing in the Bible move on and believe in the Quran. But you say, you do not believe Bible, as it has contradictions.
let me say this: there is no contradiction about who Jesus is, in the Bible. He is Son of God, and He did not say anything about Muhammad whatsoever.

Quran is not easy to accept.

Aha, got ya.
See, Jesus could have easily said in the Bible, that another Arabian Prophet by the Name Muhammad comes, with a new Book called the Quran. Then God, could have easily preserved such Prophecy in the Bible. That way, it would have been a lot easier for Christians to accept.
so, here I am pointing a contradiction in your logic. You must have an answer for this contradiction. What Contradiction? That, Jesus was sent by God, yet, He never spoke of Muhammad and Quran. How could that be? How could Jesus, a Prophet, did not speak of such an important Religion, called Islam, so, it makes it easy for Christians to accept Islam?

It might seem easy for Muslims because of the bias they grow up with.

of course. But if you see nowadays, many of newer Generations in Iran, do not accept Quran.

Some Christians might reject it for stuff like Ramadan not accounting for all the times on earth or hijaab or minor details.

No, common. Please Do not make up stories my friend. The Reason Christians do not accept Quran, is because, Jesus clearly said, He is Son of God, and No one comes to Father except through Him. He also said He is the First and The Last.
It is because, Jesus never said that another Holy Book will be revealed called Quran.
For example Moses clearly said after Him, Messiah comes. Then Jesus was the Messiah. But Jesus did not say, after Him Muhammad comes.

I don't know how it feels like to research another religion to see if it's true from outsider perspective but not knowing enough about it to dismiss or believe in it.

You seem to miss the point.
why should even a Christian consider looking at any other Religion, when Son of God has come, and died for their sins, and that is enough to go to Heaven?

See how clearly Jesus that, His Revelation is the Final Revelation;

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."
Mat. 24:35

The most important thing for every human, is to seek truth while trying to not deceive oneself.

Exactly. Then why a Christian shouldn't think, Islam is from Satan, and tries to deceive them?
Jesus said:

"and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people."

Why you dont realize that, Muhammad could be one of the false ones and you were deceived?

Remember, Jesus Resurrected the Dead people, but when the same was asked from Muhammad, He made excuses that, on the Day of Resurrection God will resurrect:

“O Muhammad! If you are truthful in your claim that Allah will resurrect the dead alive for requital and accountability, then bring back to life our forefathers who have died." 44:36

You must agree they had a valid and fair request. But Muhammad was incapable of performing the Miracle for them, instead He replied, God will resurrect them later at the End.

You need to put yourself in their place, and time. Imagine you were there, and you sincerely asked Muhammad to show the Miracle, but He makes excuses. Dont you see, how He might have been a false prophet?

When did Quran begin to click for me? Let me say, it was not my accord but what I was told mysteriously began to make it all click. I can't say too much about this but suffice to say, when it clicked it exponentially got different and higher in my mind and heart.

Thats not the question though. The question is, Jesus did not speak of Muhammad. If Muhammad was a true Prophet, Jesus could have easily talked about Him. Do you see the point?
And if Jesus did not speak of Muhammad, it means Jesus is the Final one.

 

[Ebionite]

And if Jesus did not speak of Muhammad, it means Jesus is the Final one.

Non sequitur.

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which [men] deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it [is] sealed:
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isaiah 29:11-12

An Angel came to him and asked him to read. Allah's Messenger replied, "I do not know how to read." The Prophet added, "Then the Angel held me (forcibly) and pressed me so hard that I felt distressed. Then he released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he held me again and pressed me for the second time till I felt distressed. He then released me and asked me to read, but again I replied. 'I do not know how to read.'

Sahih al-Bukhari 4953 - Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh)) - كتاب التفسير - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Non sequitur.

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which [men] deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it [is] sealed:
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isaiah 29:11-12

An Angel came to him and asked him to read. Allah's Messenger replied, "I do not know how to read." The Prophet added, "Then the Angel held me (forcibly) and pressed me so hard that I felt distressed. Then he released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he held me again and pressed me for the second time till I felt distressed. He then released me and asked me to read, but again I replied. 'I do not know how to read.'

Sahih al-Bukhari 4953 - Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh)) - كتاب التفسير - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

That verse of the Holy Bible is not saying Muhammad. If God wanted to say Muhammad, He could easily say Muhammad, not just some vague words. There many people who cannot read, so, all of them are Prophets then.

 

[Trailblazer]

You seem to miss the point.
why should even a Christian consider looking at any other Religion, when Son of God has come, and died for their sins, and that is enough to go to Heaven?

Christians would only consider looking at another Religion if they sincerely wanted to know the Truth, rather than ONLY caring about "getting to Heaven."

See how clearly Jesus that, His Revelation is the Final Revelation;

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."
Mat. 24:35

my words will never pass away does not mean that there will be no more Revelations from God.
It only means that the words of Jesus are eternal. That concurs with what Shoghi Effendi wrote:

“Let no one, however, mistake my purpose. The Revelation, of which Bahá’u’lláh is the source and center, abrogates none of the religions that have preceded it, nor does it attempt, in the slightest degree, to distort their features or to belittle their value. It disclaims any intention of dwarfing any of the Prophets of the past, or of whittling down the eternal verity of their teachings. It can, in no wise, conflict with the spirit that animates their claims, nor does it seek to undermine the basis of any man’s allegiance to their cause.” The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh, pp, 57-58

Read more: Fundamental Principle of Religious Truth

 

[Nakosis]

Jesus clearly said, No one comes to the Father except through Me. As Bible also says, clearly Jesus is Son of God. He died for the sins of others. As long as one believes in Jesus, he or she will be in heaven.
Beside this, there is no where in the Bible that says, after Jesus, God will reveal another Book called Quran through a Prophet called Muhammad from Arabia.
Jesus taught Love. After Him, no need for a false prophet to come and teach war.

So, three things for the Muslims to respond:

1. Do you even consider that your religion can be false? When did Jesus say, Muhammad comes. He warned there will be many false prophets.

2. Why should even a Christian believe for one Moment Islam can even possibly be true religion, when clearly Jesus said He is the only way to the Father. He clearly said, that He is the only Son of God?

3. Do you even care to have an answer to these questions, or you are just so sure that your religion is true, and you go to heaven. Do you consider that, your beliefs could just be based on Geographical location or family, and that from childhood you were brainwashed to believe Islam is true? Maybe you were brainwashed, how do you know?

I want to see how Muslims respond to these questions?

You might as well ask why a Jew would into Christianity as a possible true faith since Jesus didn't fulfill all of the requirements laid out in the Tanauch.

I guess Christians have to assume the Jews got it wrong. Muslims have to assume the Christians got it wrong and the Baha'i have to assume everyone that came before got it wrong.

Kind of hard to have a scriptural debate when you all go by different scripture.

 

[Trailblazer]

Kind of hard to have a scriptural debate when you all go by different scripture.

It's not that hard if you know what all those scriptures mean.

 

[Nakosis]

It's not that hard if you know what all those scriptures mean.

Ok, but the OP seems to want to rule out the Quran.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ok, but the OP seems to want to rule out the Quran.

I have no idea why he wants to do that. Baha'is believe that the Qur'an is from Muhammad, who was a Messenger of God.

“Indeed, the essential prerequisites of admittance into the Bahá’í fold of Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists, and the followers of other ancient faiths, as well as of agnostics and even atheists, is the wholehearted and unqualified acceptance by them all of the divine origin of both Islám and Christianity, of the Prophetic functions of both Muḥammad and Jesus Christ, of the legitimacy of the institution of the Imamate, and of the primacy of St. Peter, the Prince of the Apostles. Such are the central, the solid, the incontrovertible principles that constitute the bedrock of Bahá’í belief, which the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh is proud to acknowledge, which its teachers proclaim, which its apologists defend, which its literature disseminates, which its summer schools expound, and which the rank and file of its followers attest by both word and deed.” The Promised Day is Come, p. 110

 

[Dao Hao Now]

Yes, if one was to ask me same questions in another thread, i can confidently and happily answer those questions equally about why Bahai Faith is true faith after Christianity and Islam.

Why not this thread?
Wouldn’t that be relevant here?
What if both Christianity and Islam are false?

 

[Trailblazer]

What if both Christianity and Islam are false?

That would mean that 55% of people in the world are following false religions. How likely is that to be true?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You might as well ask why a Jew would into Christianity as a possible true faith since Jesus didn't fulfill all of the requirements laid out in the Tanauch.

I guess Christians have to assume the Jews got it wrong. Muslims have to assume the Christians got it wrong and the Baha'i have to assume everyone that came before got it wrong.

Kind of hard to have a scriptural debate when you all go by different scripture.

Baha'i Scriptures, as far as I know and understand has explained in a consistent the reason behind these Disagreements, in a way, that is not "guessing" anymore.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That would mean that 55% of people in the world are following false religions. How likely is that to be true?

It is absolutely very possible. How wise is humanity overall anyways.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Why not this thread?
Wouldn’t that be relevant here?

We would have to go through alot of details, specific to Bahai Scriptures.

What if both Christianity and Islam are false?

I dont claim I can prove Bahai Faith is True to anyone.
But, if we can start based on the assumption that Jewish Faith is true, then I can provide a consistent way, and show how the later Faiths are also True, from the same God. I can also say this in another way that, if one was to reject the Bahai Faith, then they cannot prove their own faith is also the truth, whether its Islam, Christianity, or other faiths, if they were to examine there own Faith with the same standard that they examined Bahai Faith.

Briefly, we can show how Jesus is the Messiah promised in the Torah, if one was to accept that, the Prophecies are written in a symbolic language and fulfilled symbolically rather than literally. Then with the same basis, we can also show, how Muhammad is the one promised in the Bible. We can go on and show how Baha'u'llah is the Promised one in the Bible and the Quran.
But the unfairness i see, is, for example Muslims can easily accept that Muhammad was promised in the Bible as Spirit of truth. But when they are shown, that Baha'u'llah is also promised in the Quran using a similar symbolic language, they protest and disagree. Christians do the same. When it comes to showing how Jesus is the Messiah promised in Torah, they very easily see it as such. But they fail to use the same standard to see how Muhammad is mentioned in the Bible.

So, then, the question may be, if indeed these Scriptures are from the same God, why they are written in such a way that does not clearly convince that a later Manifestation was promised in the previous Scriptures. It seems the God has been failing to transmit His message clearly everytime, and causes failure and Disagreement. Bahai Scriptures, provides a very deep answer to this question. It proves the wisdom behind it. But from my experience, it is so deep that requires a lot of meditation and pondering to digest it. But if one was to finally digest it, they immediately start believing that All major religions, has been revealed from the same God without a doubt.