Why should a Christian even look into Islam as a Possible true Faith?

[Sargonski]

Jesus clearly said, No one comes to the Father except through Me. As Bible also says, clearly Jesus is Son of God. He died for the sins of others. As long as one believes in Jesus, he or she will be in heaven.
Beside this, there is no where in the Bible that says, after Jesus, God will reveal another Book called Quran through a Prophet called Muhammad from Arabia.
Jesus taught Love. After Him, no need for a false prophet to come and teach war.

So, three things for the Muslims to respond:

1. Do you even consider that your religion can be false? When did Jesus say, Muhammad comes. He warned there will be many false prophets.

2. Why should even a Christian believe for one Moment Islam can even possibly be true religion, when clearly Jesus said He is the only way to the Father. He clearly said, that He is the only Son of God?

3. Do you even care to have an answer to these questions, or you are just so sure that your religion is true, and you go to heaven. Do you consider that, your beliefs could just be based on Geographical location or family, and that from childhood you were brainwashed to believe Islam is true? Maybe you were brainwashed, how do you know?

I want to see how Muslims respond to these questions?

There are many logical problems with your claims. Say you learn about the teachings of Jesus through a Christian minister .. is this not learning through Jesus ? what means "Through me"

OH .. Hold on .. thats not it .. "Through Me" -- we know exactly what Jesus means .. Matt 25 .. Sheep and Shepherds parable. .. Jesus is acting as Judge .. at the end of days .. some get through into heaven .. others do not.

So how is it a problem for a Muslim to get in .. they have to go through Jesus .. like everyone else.

Now you were speaking about "Brainwashing" - What did you think "Through Me" means

 

[Ebionite]

have to make a point, not express a point, which no one but those among the "deceived" even believes. The point I made is that there was no Mecca trading center at the time of the early 7th century, or cave of Hira in Mecca

You haven"t made a point until you have an explanation for the photograph of the cave.

 

[Ebionite]

Which post was that, post #171?…..

The one I directly addressed in post# 188?;

The one responding to your bringing up “certainty” after you accused me of “redefining terms” and accusing me as saying you “claimed” whether there such a thing as objectivity, in post#168?….

Where clearly, I gave you 12 options to chose from to replace “are you suggesting” with that might better suit your taste after you feigned confusing the verb as the subject noun?
And you chose “claim” to be your next diversion away from answering a very simple straightforward question?

Thats rich!

You're on ignore.

 

[2ndpillar]

You haven"t made a point until you have an explanation for the photograph of the cave.

What cave? From mount marwah (Moriah), which is associated with Abraham and Jerusalem. What is the significance of Mount Moriah in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org
Here is a picture of your Mount Marwah in Mecca. Do you see a cave in this big rock, masquerading as a mountain.

Saudi Arabia, MECCA, september 2016., Muslim pilgrims perform saei (brisk walking) from Safa mount from Marwah mount on February 26, 2012 in Mecca. M Stock Photo - Alamy

Download this stock image: Saudi Arabia, MECCA, september 2016., Muslim pilgrims perform saei (brisk walking) from Safa mount from Marwah mount on February 26, 2012 in Mecca. M - 2AATRC1 from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors.

www.alamy.com

Or do you want to see the hira cave in Petra, which overlooks the original site of the Nabatean Kaaba?

 

[Ebionite]

What cave?

From my #187. The photo is at the link below.

Cave of Hira | Also Known as Jabal Al-Hira | The First Revelation |

It is the place where Prophet Muhammad PBUH was blessed with the first revelation of the Holy Quran. The cave of Hira is also known as Jabal Al-Hira.

thepilgrim.co

 

[Dao Hao Now]

You're on ignore.

Oh no!
How will I possibly be able to sleep!?
I’ll be tossing and turning all night!

 

[2ndpillar]

From my #187. The photo is at the link below.

Cave of Hira | Also Known as Jabal Al-Hira | The First Revelation |

It is the place where Prophet Muhammad PBUH was blessed with the first revelation of the Holy Quran. The cave of Hira is also known as Jabal Al-Hira.

thepilgrim.co

Your supposed "cave" appears to be a crack in a rockslide, and is not in viewing distance of the supposed Kaaba, in a major trading town which did not exist, nor a place one would spend any amount of time in. I don't know, I think you are reaching. If the Kaaba was in today's Mecca, why do the early prayer walls face in a different direction?

 

[Ebionite]

Your supposed "cave" appears to be a crack in a rockslide, and is not in viewing distance of the supposed Kaaba, in a major trading town which did not exist, nor a place one would spend any amount of time in. I don't know, I think you are reaching. If the Kaaba was in today's Mecca, why do the early prayer walls face in a different direction?

Throwing out strawman arguments only serves to highlight your prejudice.

The connection between Isaiah's sealed book and Muhammed as the seal of the prophets and Aisha's account of Muhammed being pressed and his response to that does not depend on what type of cave it was or your other irrelevant arguments.

 

[CG Didymus]

Jesus clearly said, No one comes to the Father except through Me. As Bible also says, clearly Jesus is Son of God. He died for the sins of others. As long as one believes in Jesus, he or she will be in heaven.
Beside this, there is no where in the Bible that says, after Jesus, God will reveal another Book called Quran through a Prophet called Muhammad from Arabia.
Jesus taught Love. After Him, no need for a false prophet to come and teach war.

So, three things for the Muslims to respond:

1. Do you even consider that your religion can be false? When did Jesus say, Muhammad comes. He warned there will be many false prophets.

2. Why should even a Christian believe for one Moment Islam can even possibly be true religion, when clearly Jesus said He is the only way to the Father. He clearly said, that He is the only Son of God?

3. Do you even care to have an answer to these questions, or you are just so sure that your religion is true, and you go to heaven. Do you consider that, your beliefs could just be based on Geographical location or family, and that from childhood you were brainwashed to believe Islam is true? Maybe you were brainwashed, how do you know?

I want to see how Muslims respond to these questions?

For those that believe like the "born-again" Christians, there is no need for Islam or any other religion. They have it all. Believe in the Jesus and the God they believe in and be "saved".

Now is there a problem with what they believe? If so, then what is it?

Islam, Baha'is and other religions all have something that they believe is wrong with the beliefs of those Christians. Of course, the beliefs of their religion are the correct ones.

 

[2ndpillar]

Throwing out strawman arguments only serves to highlight your prejudice.

The connection between Isaiah's sealed book and Muhammed as the seal of the prophets and Aisha's account of Muhammed being pressed and his response to that does not depend on what type of cave it was or your other irrelevant arguments.

What you call a cave, is not a cave, but a very small opening in a rockfall, which is not in viewing distance of the Kaaba. Your views appear to be the result of the Muslim traditions trying to appropriate traditions of other religions into their manmade religion. The traditions and Kaaba (cube structure) of Mecca were taken from the traditions of Petra, which were taken from the holy of holies (cube structure) of Jerusalem. Abraham tried to sacrifice Isaac on Mt Moriah, not some big stone in Mecca, called Marwah, which was supposedly in sight of your rockfall cave, which is two miles away. Ishmael was like the Judas goat, who was released into the desert on the feast of Atonement, and is not proofed as the father of the Arabs, as shown in the Islamic narrative. The land of the middle east Arabs is Edom, the land of Essau, not the land of Ishmael. The same passage of Isaiah you use for Mohammad, the Mormons use for Joseph Smith. Both seem a little more than inappropriate. You are going to try a little harder.

 

[Ebionite]

What you call a cave, is not a cave, but a very small opening in a rockfall, which is not in viewing distance of the Kaaba.

As if an illiterate man would have made the distinction between a natural cavern and an opening in a rockfall.
Whether or not it is in viewing distance of the Kaaba is entirely irrelevant.

The point remains that the Hadith about Muhammad being told to read is a good match for the verses about the sealed book which was given to the unlearned/illiterate man in Isaiah 29, especially when Muhammad was pressed (like a seal) and Muhammad is called the seal of the prophets in the Quran.

 

[2ndpillar]

As if an illiterate man would have made the distinction between a natural cavern and an opening in a rockfall.
Whether or not it is in viewing distance of the Kaaba is entirely irrelevant.

The point remains that the Hadith about Muhammad being told to read is a good match for the verses about the sealed book which was given to the unlearned/illiterate man in Isaiah 29, especially when Muhammad was pressed (like a seal) and Muhammad is called the seal of the prophets in the Quran.

According to Muslim tradition, the "seal of the prophets" refers to this Muhammad guy being the last prophet. I am not sure, but I was thinking that you are a follower of Baha, who was a prophet who followed this Muhammad. As for the connection between Isaiah 29 and the "seal of the prophets", I don't see it. I mean, I can go outside and say I see an elephant in the sky, but it is really just a funny looking cloud.
As for the Hira cave, the Muslim narrative states that this Muhammad guy spent a lot of time in the cave. I don't see anyone spending any time in that crack in a rock fall. Whereas the original Becca (gathering place) of Petra was surrounded by many caves, for Petra is a city of manmade caves. As for this Gabriel fellow, the only Gabriel of the era was a monk located in a monastery somewhat near Petra, who according to traditions, told a young man that he would be a prophet. You forgot to mention what century that "hadith" was written down, and by whom. I kind of discount 8th century writings produced by Persians.

 

[Ebionite]

According to Muslim tradition, the "seal of the prophets" refers to this Muhammad guy being the last prophet.

That's the majority opinion. Ahmadiyya opinion is consistent with "seal of the prophets" meaning authenticity rather than finality.
Muslim tradition is shaped by the Hadith, which has an extensive history of error.

As for the connection between Isaiah 29 and the "seal of the prophets", I don't see it.

The connections are:
1. An illiterate/unlearned man is told to read and he protests that he is illiterate/unlearned. The Hebrew from Isaiah is "not know book", which can mean illiterate.
2. According to the prophet Isaiah the man is given a book that is sealed and he has a title of "seal of the prophets".
3. A physical seal is made by impression, and Muhammad said that he was pressed.

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which [men] deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it [is] sealed:
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isaiah 29:11-12

An Angel came to him and asked him to read. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "I do not know how to read." The Prophet (ﷺ) added, "Then the Angel held me (forcibly) and pressed me so hard that I felt distressed. Then he released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he held me again and pressed me for the second time till I felt distressed. He then released me and asked me to read, but again I replied. 'I do not know how to read.'

Sahih al-Bukhari 4953 - Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh)) - كتاب التفسير - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

 

[2ndpillar]

That's the majority opinion. Ahmadiyya opinion is consistent with "seal of the prophets" meaning authenticity rather than finality.
Muslim tradition is shaped by the Hadith, which has an extensive history of error.

The whole religion has a history of differing opinions, and death to the loser of the argument. The problem is intensified as the majority of the writers of the Hadiths are from central Iraq, and are Persians, writing over a hundred years after the fact.

 

[2ndpillar]

2. According to the prophet Isaiah the man is given a book that is sealed and he has a title of "seal of the prophets".
3. A physical seal is made by impression, and Muhammad said that he was pressed.

That is like saying the cloud in the sky doesn't represent an elephant, but a giraffe. I now know why I could see no connection, because there is no connection.

 

[2ndpillar]

That's the majority opinion. Ahmadiyya opinion is consistent with "seal of the prophets" meaning authenticity rather than finality.
Muslim tradition is shaped by the Hadith, which has an extensive history of error.


The connections are:
1. An illiterate/unlearned man is told to read and he protests that he is illiterate/unlearned. The Hebrew from Isaiah is "not know book", which can mean illiterate.
2. According to the prophet Isaiah the man is given a book that is sealed and he has a title of "seal of the prophets".
3. A physical seal is made by impression, and Muhammad said that he was pressed.

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which [men] deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it [is] sealed:
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isaiah 29:11-12

An Angel came to him and asked him to read. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "I do not know how to read." The Prophet (ﷺ) added, "Then the Angel held me (forcibly) and pressed me so hard that I felt distressed. Then he released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he held me again and pressed me for the second time till I felt distressed. He then released me and asked me to read, but again I replied. 'I do not know how to read.'

Sahih al-Bukhari 4953 - Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh)) - كتاب التفسير - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

Bukhari wrote his Hadith in the 9th Century. Your Muhammad died in the early 7th century. What does your Persian, from Uzbekistan, Bukhari, know about the price of eggs?

 

[Ebionite]

The whole religion has a history of differing opinions, and death to the loser of the argument.

Bollocks. Your prejudice is showing. Again.

That is like saying the cloud in the sky doesn't represent an elephant, but a giraffe.

False equivalence fallacy. The appearance of clouds is nothing like what a seal represents in language, or the idea that an illiterate man protests at being told to read from a book.

I now know why I could see no connection, because there is no connection.

I note that you deleted the first connection from my text. Here it is again.

1. An illiterate/unlearned man is told to read and he protests that he is illiterate/unlearned. The Hebrew from Isaiah is "not know book", which can mean illiterate.

 

[shunyadragon]

It is important that other religions in general should be objectively and independently investigated to achieve a greater understanding of the nature of the religions in the context of the spiritual history of humanity and an independent universal view As a Universalist (not UU) each religion should be understood in the context of the time and culture of the time and culture the religion began and its impact on the world today. If all the ancient religions were independently and objectively investigated including Judaism, Christianity and Islam, all of them would be problematic in the context of the more universal perspective of today's world.

My first conclusion in this search is that the God or Gods of each ancient religion reflects the culture and time the religion began, I concluded IF a 'Source' some call Gods exists God would be a Universal 'Source' beyond any one religion or belief system.

 

[Link]

People should look into all religions. I looked into Bahai Faith and found it to be the most dishonest approach to God and religion because of how they twist language out of place with respect to the Quran and hadiths.

If a Christian looks into Islam, he will not find that.

 

[jimb]

Although I am not a Muslim, it is my understanding that Allah is the same as the Judeo/Christian God (YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, etc.)

If that is true, then I consider it to be a "true faith". There is too much division in God's creation.