Why So Much Trinity Bashing?

[walt]

Jesus gave us instructions to follow! Are we determined to believe in Jesus words?

- Jesus said to them, “And who do you say that I am?” -- Matt.16:13-17
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jn.11:4; Lk.1:35; Mk.1:1; Jn.1:34; 1:49; 3:18; 11:27; 20:31; Ac.9:20; 2 Cor.1:18; Eph.4:13; Matt.3:17; 17:5

Jesus is praying to his Father, starting at Jn. 17:1.
- "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. --John 17:3

- Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” --John 20:17

- “Let not your heart be troubled. Ye believe in God; believe also in Me. --John 14:1

- Jesus does not explain and teach: The Father, The Son and Holy Spirit are one God.
All equal in power and all three have no beginning.

Summary:
* Jesus explains and teaches in the above scriptures:
- Jesus is the Son of the living God.
- Jesus prays to His Father and says: This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
- Jesus says: Your Father is My Father.
- Jesus says: Your God is My God.
- Jesus says: Believe in God; Believe also in Me.
- Over 40 in the Bible identified Jesus as the Son of God, and there is only one God The Father --1 Cor. 8:6; 1 Tim. 2:5; 2 Cor. 11:31; 2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 1:3; 4:6; Gal. 1:3; Jn. 17:3

* An Angel says I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
If God can speak and be seen through an Angel to Moses, God can speak and be seen through Jesus also! Ex.3:2,4,6; Acts 7:29-32

Exodus 3:2 There the angel of the Lord appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up.
Ex. 3:4 When the Lord saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, “Moses! Moses!”
Ex.3:6 Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.

Acts 7:29 When Moses heard this, he fled to Midian, where he settled as a foreigner and had two sons. 30 “After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to Moses in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai. 31 When he saw this, he was amazed at the sight. As he went over to get a closer look, he heard the Lord say: 32 ‘I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.’ Moses trembled with fear and did not dare to look.

I am so thankful beyond words, I receive more joy each day I almost can't believe that this is possible to feel this way. I have a renewed strength to show my love to Jesus and his Father more and more. I love people everywhere because of what I have learned in the Bible.

Thank You My Friend in Christ Jesus and his Father.

 

[PearlSeeker]

The Trinity is hidden in the Old Testament, and it's revealed in the New. That's why the Jews didn't get it, but the Christians did. It's all over the bible.

Confirmation bias?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I doubt that you have ever read the doctrine of the Trinity


So God is a person like you , since you compared person with person?
What is one and what is oneness?
What is person according to human , and what is person according to God?
What is the Hebrew word "echad" , do you know?

The Trinity says God consists of THREE distinct persons.

 

[SLPCCC]

Confirmation bias?

Yes! Thank you! For example, at Isa 9:6 it reads:

• For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

We know this is talking about Jesus, but some who are being misled and don't believe the Trinity will ignore the fact that it says, "Everlasting Father"! There is only One Everlasting Father!

In Isa 10:21 it calls Our Father Mighty God just like in Isa 9:6 which calls Jesus Mighty God.

• A remnant will return, a remnant of Jacob will return to the Mighty God. Isa 10:21 NIV

Mighty God in Hebrew is "El Gibbor". It is used in both cases: at 9:6 and 10:21. Note, not a Mighty God but Mighty God

But Pearlseeker it's not only confirmation bias that blinds some people; it's also the fact that some religious leaders deliberately mislead. For example, some change their bible to read in their favor. This can be seen at Jn 1:1 where some add the article "a" to support their teaching that Jesus is not Mighty God. Compare the NIV with the JW bible verse and the JW's Greek Interlinear Translation. Notice that the Greek does not have the article "a" but the JW adds it to support their teachings and to disregards Isa 9:6 where Jesus is called Mighty God.

At John 1:1 it reads:

• In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. NIV

JW bible verse:

JW's Greek Interlinear Translation

There is no article "a" so why add it? Isn't this twisting scripture in your favor? Having two gods/Gods is polytheism.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I doubt that you have ever read the doctrine of the Trinity


So God is a person like you , since you compared person with person?
What is one and what is oneness?
What is person according to human , and what is person according to God?
What is the Hebrew word "echad" , do you know?

I think you need to review what that doctrine teaches.

You mean you can't see the difference in one person and three persons?

"echad" means one.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

The Trinity is hidden in the Old Testament, and it's revealed in the New. That's why the Jews didn't get it, but the Christians did. It's all over the bible. Yes, Jesus spoke to Abraham, Moses, and the prophets. Not as Jesus but as the Word. When he spoke to Moses, he spoke to Moses as the "I Am". This is what he revealed to the Jews, and that's why they wanted to kill him when he said that. All those who are not Christians don't believe in the Trinity because they have not come to know the Truth. Those who call themselves Christians but don't believe in the Trinity are being misled. True Christians believe in the Trinity because it's all over the New and Old Testament. If you do a scholarly study of the scriptures, you will see it too.

Why so must Trinity bashing? It's simple. Anything that is from God the ruler of this world hates and will attack.

The Trinity was not taught in the OT or in the new by any of the apostles and is not correct.

 

[SLPCCC]

The Trinity was not taught in the OT or in the new by any of the apostles and is not correct.

It does but forget that the Trinity is taught in the scriptures for now. Can you see that Jesus is God although not the Father God?
Two Persons but one God?

 

[SLPCCC]

Summary:
* Jesus explains and teaches in the above scriptures:
- Jesus is the Son of the living God.
- Jesus prays to His Father and says: This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
- Jesus says: Your Father is My Father.
- Jesus says: Your God is My God.
- Jesus says: Believe in God; Believe also in Me.
- Over 40 in the Bible identified Jesus as the Son of God, and there is only one God The Father --1 Cor. 8:6; 1 Tim. 2:5; 2 Cor. 11:31; 2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 1:3; 4:6; Gal. 1:3; Jn. 17:3
test

Jesus could say this because although equal, He is a different Person. The son of God. Nothing is impossible for God. Even being three Persons and One God: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Yes! Thank you! For example, at Isa 9:6 it reads:

• For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

We know this is talking about Jesus, but some who are being misled and don't believe the Trinity will ignore the fact that it says, "Everlasting Father"! There is only One Everlasting Father!

I meant confirmation bias in Christian reading of OT (as if there is Trinity). You just showed an example.

 

[YoursTrue]

But we receive a new body which brings back the trinity of man. Each portion is still “a man"W


Please see above


No… your body is who you are. It is made of one materiality and for one purpose
Your soul is who you are. It is created of a materiality for one purpose
Your spirit is who you are. It is created of a materiality for one specific purpose

Hi, Kenny. When a person dies, he's not alive. People usually mourn the fact that the person they loved has died.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

It does but forget that the Trinity is taught in the scriptures for now. Can you see that Jesus is God although not the Father God?
Two Persons but one God?

Hi SLPCC,

Yes I do see that the Messiah was God. Because the fullness of the Godhead was dwelling in that body. He was the image (or the body) of the invisible God. Colossians 1:15


God is a Spirit. John 4:24
There is only one Spirit of God. Ephesians 4:4
There is only ONE God - the Father 1 Corinthians 8:6
The Holy Spirit is that same Father. (Not another person) Matthew 1:18, 20
The Father was dwelling in the Son. (Because the Son was the body.) John 14:10

Just like it says in Isaiah 9:6 The son would be called the mighty God, the everlasting Father. The Messiah was both the Father and the Son. The Father was the Spirit dwelling in the body, and the Son was the body. Father and Son is a distinction between flesh and spirit, not two different persons.

That was why he said - if you have SEEN me, you have SEEN the Father. John 14:7-9
That was why he said - I and my Father are one. John 10:30
That was why he said - Now have they hated both me and my Father. John 15:24
That is why it says - No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. Matthew 11:27

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus could say this because although equal, He is a different Person. The son of God. Nothing is impossible for God. Even being three Persons and One God: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Yes, but Jesus taught his disciples to pray to God the Father. That is what is often called the "Our Father" prayer. And he also said that the Father is greater than he is. (Remember that?) He also said that all things were GIVEN to him by the Father. Unlike Satan who wanted to grab power and authority.
And then the Bible says that Jesus will give back to the Father everything after his work has been accomplished. I don't know how you interpret that, but I don't see three persons of equal importance there. I don't see three persons anyway in those descriptions in the Bible.
Would you say the trinity doctrine says that the three are coequal, almighty, and uncreated, having existed eternally in the Godhead?

 

[SLPCCC]

I meant confirmation bias in Christian reading of OT (as if there is Trinity). You just showed an example.

LOL

Never mind the Trinity. Do you see that Jesus is called "Mighty God, Everlasting Father" at Isa 9:6 and the Lord is called "Mighty God" at Isa 10:21? Are there two Mighty Gods? Are there two Everlasting Fathers? If you say yes, that's polytheism. If you say no, then you agree with me,, Isa 9:6, and Isa 10:21 that Jesus is Mighty God, Everlasting Father. The same Mighty God at Isa 10:21. Yes?

Who's showing confirmation bias?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Yes, but Jesus taught his disciples to pray to God the Father. That is what is often called the "Our Father" prayer. And he also said that the Father is greater than he is. (Remember that?) He also said that all things were GIVEN to him by the Father. Unlike Satan who wanted to grab power and authority.
And then the Bible says that Jesus will give back to the Father everything after his work has been accomplished. I don't know how you interpret that, but I don't see three persons of equal importance there. I don't see three persons anyway in those descriptions in the Bible.
Would you say the trinity doctrine says that the three are coequal, almighty, and uncreated, having existed eternally in the Godhead?

Hi YoursTrue,

I agree there are not three persons.

The way I see it is the Messiah was both the Father and the Son. Father and Son simply being a distinction between the flesh and the Spirit (not two different persons). The Father was God, and the Son was the image (or you could say the body) of the invisible God.

The Father was greater, because the Spirit is greater than the temporary flesh taken on as a body. Once that body was raised up a permanent glorified spiritual body, he then said I have all power in heaven and in earth. He ascended and took the throne to reign forever.

As far as the Son giving everything back to the Father. I don't think that is correct. I think those scriptures are referring to man giving back his privilege to rule this earthly kingdom. God has allowed man to make his own decisions for now. But when God returns, man will be judged, and will no longer be able to do as he pleases.

 

[YoursTrue]

Having two gods/Gods is polytheism.

That may be why the trinity doctrine was constructed. The Bible does not always use the word 'god' referring to the Almighty God, as you probably know.
When tempted by the devil, Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”
This is from the New King James Version, and I notice that they put the word Lord there is all capital letters. Do you know why that is?

 

[YoursTrue]

Hi YoursTrue,

I agree there are not three persons.

The way I see it is the Messiah was both the Father and the Son. Father and Son simply being a distinction between the flesh and the Spirit (not two different persons). The Father was God, and the Son was the image (or you could say the body) of the invisible God.

The Father was greater, because the Spirit is greater than the temporary flesh taken on as a body. Once that body was raised up a permanent glorified spiritual body, he then said I have all power in heaven and in earth. He ascended and took the throne to reign forever.

As far as the Son giving everything back to the Father. I don't think that is correct. I think those scriptures are referring to man giving back his privilege to rule this earthly kingdom. God has allowed man to make his own decisions for now. But when God returns, man will be judged, and will no longer be able to do as he pleases.

Thank you very much TB37, appreciate your response. Unfortunately right now I can't stay on the net, so I'm looking forward to getting back to you about this.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Thank you very much TB37, appreciate your response. Unfortunately right now I can't stay on the net, so I'm looking forward to getting back to you about this.

No problem. If you don't mind please read my post #391 also, because they are kind of related. Thanks

 

[PearlSeeker]

LOL

Never mind the Trinity. Do you see that Jesus is called "Mighty God, Everlasting Father" at Isa 9:6 and the Lord is called "Mighty God" at Isa 10:21? Are there two Mighty Gods? Are there two Everlasting Fathers? If you say yes, that's polytheism. If you say no, then you agree with me,, Isa 9:6, and Isa 10:21 that Jesus is Mighty God, Everlasting Father. The same Mighty God at Isa 10:21. Yes?

Who's showing confirmation bias?

Yes. Jewish names for human beings often declare or reflecting a particular attribute of God, e.g., Eliakim. No polytheism.

 

[YoursTrue]

No problem. If you don't mind please read my post #391 also, because they are kind of related. Thanks

ok, will do, but I was thinking also of this scripture at Genesis 1:26, when God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
(Note: They (Father and Son) made man in their image...and gave them dominion over the animals, etc. on the earth.)

 

[YoursTrue]

OK, I see the post you are referring to, thank you for your response. Now here's something I was thinking about regarding the concept that God is three persons said to be one God all equal to the other --
Jesus is the image of God, right? Colossians 1:15 says this.
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." There's a lot there in that scripture, and yes, Jesus is very, very important, no doubt about it in my mind. But notice what Genesis says about this also, and thank you for the conversation.
Genesis 1:26,27:
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.” So God created man in His own image;in the image of God He created him;
male and female He created them."

So here in brief is how I see it: God said, Let us make man in our image. And man was made in the image of God. Jesus was said to be the image of God. God gave man dominion over the animals on the earth. But things got messed up when Satan came along and tried to grab rulership over Eve, then she got Adam to go against God also. But the point is that men were made in God's image. Jesus is said to be the image of God. And Jesus was given all power and rulership. Adam was suppose to have dominion (rulership) over the earth. Jesus did not fail in his assignment. Adam did.