Why So Much Trinity Bashing?

[metis]

I wonder what @metis thinks of your reply. My experience from turning from atheism to Christianity was not quite like yours, but nevertheless God reached me. Thanks for sharing.

IMO, there's insufficient evidence to conclude that his/her opinion is correct. If it were an actual trial, most rationale for the resurrection would undoubtedly fall under "hearsay".

 

[PearlSeeker]

There are many avenues you can start on. I used to be an atheist, so I started watching debates between historian agnostics like Bart Ehrman and atheists like Richard Dawkins VS Christians Philosophers and theologians like William L. Craig and others. I also listened to debates between Islamic scholars and Christian theologians. I read books from both sides. My journey in this area was long-years, but it was well worth it. There's enough evidence for the resurrection of Jesus, which explains why there are billions of believers.

Interesting. This kind of research had right the opposite effect on me.

 

[SLPCCC]

Interesting. This kind of research had right the opposite effect on me.

Not everyone will reach the same conclusion, but the majority will. Why do you think the most prominent scientists and intellectuals are not atheists? If it were that obvious, this wouldn't be the case.

 

[SLPCCC]

IMO, there's insufficient evidence to conclude that his/her opinion is correct. If it were an actual trial, most rationale for the resurrection would undoubtedly fall under "hearsay".

There's insufficient evidence that atheism is true, yet there are still atheist believers. You need a lot of faith to be an atheist. It was too much for me. For me, I found that the evidence of the resurrection outweighs the belief in atheism.

 

[Trailblazer]

A2: If Jesus rose from the dead, atheism, Islam, and all other non-Christians are false. It's better to know the truth than to be in ignorance.

If it could ever be proven that Jesus rose from the dead you could say that atheism, Islam, and all other non-Christians don't know the truth, but that is all you could say. That would not necessarily mean those religions or atheism are false.

Nobody can ever prove that Jesus rose from the dead, or that He did not rise, not any more than anyone can ever prove that God exists!
Since nobody can ever prove that Jesus rose from the dead, you cannot say Jesus rose from the dead and that atheism, Islam, and all other non-Christians are false.

If Jesus did not rise from the dead, then one of the primary beliefs upholding Christianity is false. It's better to know the truth than to be in ignorance.

Q2: What would it 'matter' if Jesus rose from the dead or not?

What I was asking is what is the 'significance' of Jesus rising from the dead, if He did rise? Why would it matter of a dead body came back to life?
That body is only going to die again since no physical body lives forever.

 

[Trailblazer]

I read books from both sides. My journey in this area was long-years, but it was well worth it. There's enough evidence for the resurrection of Jesus, which explains why there are billions of believers.

Evidence is not proof unless it is verifiable. Nobody can ever verify that Jesus rose from the dead.

Do you know that all Christians do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead?

Resurrection did not happen, say quarter of Christians

8% of non-religious people think Jesus did rise from the dead, suggests a survey.

www.bbc.com

In this new age less and less Christians believe in the bodily resurrection, but they are still Christians because being a Christian is about believing in Jesus, and it is not necessary to believe that Jesus rose from the dead.

Why the 25% of Christians who deny the resurrection aren't true believers

Andrew Hamilton-Thomas responds to a recent survey which revealed a quarter of professing Christians think the resurrection of Jesus is a myth

www.premierchristianity.com

How dare anyone tell a person they are not a true Christian just because they don't believe in the resurrection.
That is so arrogant and disgusting!

 

[SLPCCC]

If it could ever be proven that Jesus rose from the dead you could say that atheism, Islam, and all other non-Christians don't know the truth, but that is all you could say. That would not necessarily mean those religions or atheism are false.

Nobody can ever prove that Jesus rose from the dead, or that He did not rise, not any more than anyone can ever prove that God exists!
Since nobody can ever prove that Jesus rose from the dead, you cannot say Jesus rose from the dead and that atheism, Islam, and all other non-Christians are false.

Nobody said anything about proof. Go back and reread.

If Jesus did not rise from the dead, then one of the primary beliefs upholding Christianity is false. It's better to know the truth than to be in ignorance.

That's right. Do you believe Islam is true?

 

[SLPCCC]

Evidence is not proof unless it is verifiable. Nobody can ever verify that Jesus rose from the dead.

Do you know that all Christians do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead?

Resurrection did not happen, say quarter of Christians

8% of non-religious people think Jesus did rise from the dead, suggests a survey.

www.bbc.com

In this new age less and less Christians believe in the bodily resurrection, but they are still Christians because being a Christian is about believing in Jesus, and it is not necessary to believe that Jesus rose from the dead.

Why the 25% of Christians who deny the resurrection aren't true believers

Andrew Hamilton-Thomas responds to a recent survey which revealed a quarter of professing Christians think the resurrection of Jesus is a myth

www.premierchristianity.com

How dare anyone tell a person they are not a true Christian just because they don't believe in the resurrection.
That is so arrogant and disgusting!

Obviously, you don't know what Christianity is. You are not a Christian, and you have two faces. Isn't that hypocrisy? It sounds like you're in a cult. That's typical of cult members. Stop trying to sound like a Christian when you are nowhere near the beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

Nobody said anything about proof. Go back and reread.

So I guess you mean there is evidence, but there is also evidence to the contrary.
If it can ever be proven that Jesus rose from the dead that is not a fact, it is only a belief.

That's right. Do you believe Islam is true?

I believe that the Qur'an is true, but I don't believe that everything that Muslims believe is true.

 

[Trailblazer]

Obviously, you don't know what Christianity is.

I know what it should be. It should be about believing in Jesus and what He did for is, revealing teachings and dying on the cross for our sins.
Jesus never said that he rose from the dead. Men wrote stories about Jesus rising from the dead. Anyone can write a story but that is no proof that the story is true.

You are not a Christian and you have two faces. Isn't that hypocrisy? It sounds like you're in a cult. That's typical of cult members.

So, are all those Christians who do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead in a cult?

You still have not answered the question I have asked you two times.
Why does it matter if Jesus rose from the dead?

 

[SLPCCC]

Evidence is not proof unless it is verifiable. Nobody can ever verify that Jesus rose from the dead.

Do you know that all Christians do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead?

In this new age less and less Christians believe in the bodily resurrection, but they are still Christians because being a Christian is about believing in Jesus, and it is not necessary to believe that Jesus rose from the dead.

Do you know that thousands of Muslims (God bless them) are leaving Islam and converting to Christianity?

 

[SLPCCC]

Why does it matter if Jesus rose from the dead?

I told you because that would mean that Islam is false. Why? According to Islam, the Koran is from God, and God's word in the Koran cannot be changed by anyone. It says that Jesus never died on the cross; hence, he never was resurrected. So, if he was, that would make the Koran in error.

 

[SLPCCC]

So, are all those Christians who do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead in a cult?

Google Christianity and see what Christianity is. Christianity - Wikipedia

Does it say that Christianity is the belief that Jesus didn't rise from the dead?

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you know that thousands of Muslims (God bless them) are leaving Islam and converting to Christianity?

No, I did not know that many people are going backwards.

Did you know that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, with Christianity lagging behind?

Statistics show that from 1910-2010, the Baha’i Faith grew at a rate of 3.54%, whereas during that time Islam grew at a rate of 1.97% and Christianity grew at a rate of 1.32%.

From 2000-2010 Islam became the fastest growing religion (1.86 %) and the Baha’i Faith was the second fastest growing religion (1.72%).

Statistics from: Growth of religion

The growth rates of the Baha’i Faith were higher than Islam from 1910 to 2010 because it includes the “formative age” of the Baha’i Faith (1921-1944) FOURTH PERIOD: THE INCEPTION OF THE FORMATIVE AGE OF THE BAHÁ’Í FAITH 1921–1944

Did you know that Islam is projected to overtake Christianity by the Year 2075?

Islam set to become world's largest religion by 2075, study suggests

 

[SLPCCC]

There are many things we believe but cannot prove. Can you prove we have free will? Can you prove that your brain is really not in some jar making you perceive this reality as it's happening? Similar to the brain-in-a-jar concept, how can you prove that our reality is not a sophisticated simulation created by gods or advanced beings? Can you prove consciousness? Can you prove the past? Maybe there is only the Now. Can you prove that your wife or husband really loves you? They can only express it to you, but you cannot prove that they really love you. There are a lot of things we cannot prove but we can use reason and come to conclusions. For some things, we need faith based on what we know.

 

[Trailblazer]

I told you because that would mean that Islam is false. Why? According to Islam, the Koran is from God, and God's word in the Koran cannot be changed by anyone. It says that Jesus never died on the cross; hence, he never was resurrected. So, if he was, that would make the Koran in error.

But why does it matter if Islam is false? Does it matter because, as I just said, Islam is running neck neck in neck with Christianity, and Islam is projected to be the largest religion in the world by 2075?

Can you cite the verse(s) from the Koran that say that Jesus did not die on the cross? That position is pretty near impossible to uphold.

Do scholars believe Jesus was crucified?

Scholars differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the biblical accounts, with only two events being supported by nearly universal scholarly consensus: Jesus was baptized and Jesus was crucified.

Historical Jesus - Wikipedia​

But what matters most to YOU, that Jesus died on the cross or that Jesus was resurrected?

It matters that Jesus died on the cross since that served a purpose, since He died for our sins, but why would it matter if Jesus was resurrected?

 

[SLPCCC]

No, I did not know that many people are going backwards.

Did you know that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, with Christianity lagging behind?

Statistics show that from 1910-2010, the Baha’i Faith grew at a rate of 3.54%, whereas during that time Islam grew at a rate of 1.97% and Christianity grew at a rate of 1.32%.

From 2000-2010 Islam became the fastest growing religion (1.86 %) and the Baha’i Faith was the second fastest growing religion (1.72%).

Statistics from: Growth of religion

The growth rates of the Baha’i Faith were higher than Islam from 1910 to 2010 because it includes the “formative age” of the Baha’i Faith (1921-1944) FOURTH PERIOD: THE INCEPTION OF THE FORMATIVE AGE OF THE BAHÁ’Í FAITH 1921–1944

Did you know that Islam is projected to overtake Christianity by the Year 2075?

Islam set to become world's largest religion by 2075, study suggests

The only reason Islam is faster is because of the high birth rate. Muslims have a lot of babies, and in some places, the girls start early having babies because they are married young. Also, there's no freedom to choose. They are born in Islam and are prevented from leaving. But Christianity is the fastest when it comes to conversion. There are more Muslims who convert to Christianity than those who leave Christianity and convert to Islam.

 

[Trailblazer]

Google Christianity and see what Christianity is. Christianity - Wikipedia

I already know what Christianity is and I might get back to that article later if I have time.

Does it say that Christianity is the belief that Jesus didn't rise from the dead?

No, it does not say that Christianity is the belief that Jesus didn't rise from the dead, but it also does not say that Christians need to believe that Jesus rose from the dead in order to call themselves Christians.

Why can't you answer my question?
So, are all those Christians who do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead in a cult?

 

[SLPCCC]

But why does it matter if Islam is false?

It matters to me because I love the Muslim people, and the more the word gets out, the more will leave and convert to Christianity. Since Christianity is a religion of peace and love, we will be closer to paradise.

 

[Trailblazer]

There are many things we believe but cannot prove. Can you prove we have free will? Can you prove that your brain is really not in some jar making you perceive this reality as it's happening? Similar to the brain-in-a-jar concept, how can you prove that our reality is not a sophisticated simulation created by gods or advanced beings? Can you prove consciousness? Can you prove the past? Maybe there is only the Now. Can you prove that your wife or husband really loves you? They can only express it to you, but you cannot prove that they really love you. There are a lot of things we cannot prove but we can use reason and come to conclusions. For some things, we need faith based on what we know.

I never said that the resurrection is false because it has not been proven true. That would be a logical fallacy.

Argument from ignorance asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true. This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there may have been an insufficient investigation, and therefore there is insufficient information to prove the proposition be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,

1. true
2. false
3. unknown between true or false
4. being unknowable (among the first three).[1]

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia

All I ever said is that it does not matter if it is true that Jesus rose from the dead. So what? It is no big deal, since ultimately, Jesus was going to die and go to heaven. Even if Jesus did rise in a physical body, that does not man anyone else was ever going to rise in a physical body.

1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation

The Resurrection Body​

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?” 36 What a foolish question! When you put a seed into the ground, it doesn’t grow into a plant unless it dies first. 37 And what you put in the ground is not the plant that will grow, but only a bare seed of wheat or whatever you are planting. 38 Then God gives it the new body he wants it to have. A different plant grows from each kind of seed. 39 Similarly there are different kinds of flesh—one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.