Why So Much Trinity Bashing?

[Trailblazer]

But Christianity is the fastest when it comes to conversion.

That is because Christians go around trying to convert people.

 

[Trailblazer]

It matters to me because I love the Muslim people, and the more the word gets out, the more will leave and convert to Christianity. Since Christianity is a religion of peace and love, we will be closer to paradise.

The Baha'i Faith is also a religion of peace and love.

“The Great Being saith: O ye children of men! The fundamental purpose animating the Faith of God and His Religion is to safeguard the interests and promote the unity of the human race, and to foster the spirit of love and fellowship amongst men. Suffer it not to become a source of dissension and discord, of hate and enmity. This is the straight Path, the fixed and immovable foundation. Whatsoever is raised on this foundation, the changes and chances of the world can never impair its strength, nor will the revolution of countless centuries undermine its structure.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 215

The Baha'i Faith also has a peace plan.

The Baha’i Peace Plan

The Baha'i Faith offers humanity a plan to bring about not only an end to war, but a lasting global peace. Isn’t that what a religion is supposed to do?

bahaiteachings.org

 

[SLPCCC]

I already know what Christianity is and I might get back to that article later if I have time.

No, it does not say that Christianity is the belief that Jesus didn't rise from the dead, but it also does not say that Christians need to believe that Jesus rose from the dead in order to call themselves Christians.

You can read it under Arianism. Any neo-Arian would be considered a cult by "all mainstream branches of Christianity."Arianism - Wikipedia

 

[walt]

Professor Sean Finnegan talks about his studies in the early church history of Pre-Nicea church fathers, see VIDEO:

The Trinity before Nicea - 7 Early Theologians - by Sean Finnegan

 

[Spiderman]

I've noticed on RF there are a lot of heretical (that's the technical term) Christians who disbelieve in the Trinity.

Why?

We've had the creeds since Late Antiquity (Apostolic, Nicaean, Athanasian) and they all include the Trinity, especially the latter, which is all about it. These creeds are regularly read in churches and have been for hundreds of years. If the Trinity were so easily disproven, why would it have held out and been accepted by the orthodox Christians? Why spend so much time fighting the Arians? And why, I'm sorry to ask, is it almost always Protestants? Do you think you know something that everybody in the early orthodox Church failed to grasp?

Why is there so much of this around lately? How do you explain how Jesus is God without the Trinity?

How do you explain the worship of Christ?

And why is it treated in such a light manner?

Rival, As much as you hear me blaspheme, it is only because I insist that everyone be as happy as possible some day, and scripture paints a God that doesn't give me enough confidence of that, and that he creates far too many people that he knows will just be tortured throughout life and die heretics, unchristian, forever in regret ...

So, it is compassionate blasphemy, because I believe God should demonstrate the kindness and humility he demands of us, and I don't see that from the Bible God too often (it is almost the general rule if I were to guess.)

But I love the virtues that Christ often preaches , regardless.

But despite my blasphemies, I praise God to see you accepted Jesus+ the trinity?

I remember I said that would be a miracle, that "when I heard this song I thought of @Rival finally accepting Christ

In honor of you, I will praise the father, son, and holy spirit, this time!

Remember though, in Isaiah 45, Hashem calls Cyrus the Messiah, and he didn't know Jesus or the father. He praised and drew his entire inspiration before his conquest of Babylon, to the building of the temple, and the laws to make it as safe to be a Jew in Israel as the Arab nations, Iran, and Babylon, from Queen Esther though. Intercessor! Hail to the Queen, baby!

But yes, Elizabeth said "who am I that the mother of my Lord should visit me", when John Kennedy leapt in her womb, as Mary approached.

Jesus was considered God. When Jesus said "why do you call me good. Only God is good", it was because the man did not believe he was God.

He did not object to people worshipping him. When he was accused as a false teacher "you being a man make yourself God," instead of attacking the idea of himself being God, he defended it , and quoted the scripture "know you not that you are Gods".

 

[Spiderman]

The trinity is not a word in the new testament, but "in the beginning there was the word, the word was God, the word was with God, the word became flesh and dwelt among us", makes it not a word that has a dogma definition that would make the council of Nicaea contradict teachings of the NT, or be a concept, a teaching not found in the new testament or the teachings of the first christians and hierarchy with Apostolic succession.

Meaning, the concept and the profession of faith in the trinity, is new testament biblically sound.

 

[Ebionite]

We do not have the original book of Jasher as far as we know.

There is a reliable translation and a spurious version.

 

[Brian2]

Q2: What would it 'matter' if Jesus rose from the dead or not?

What I was asking is what is the 'significance' of Jesus rising from the dead, if He did rise? Why would it matter of a dead body came back to life?
That body is only going to die again since no physical body lives forever.

You do know that the Bible teaches that the resurrection body is immortal, it does not die again.
Jesus rising from the dead means that He rose in His resurrection body which does not die again.
He is not in the grave, He is not in Hades, He is alive in heaven in His immortal body.

 

[Brian2]

There is a reliable translation and a spurious version.

From what I read, we probably don't have the book of Jasher, iow it has been lost.

What is the Book of Jasher and should it be in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

What is the Book of Jasher/Jashar and should it be in the Bible? If the Bible quotes from the Book of Jasher, why isn’t the Book of Jasher in the Bible?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[SLPCCC]

Actually to understand that he was speaking of the temple of his body and not his body itself, is very important.

His body is the temple. He was speaking of both body and temple. It's right there.

"Destroy this temple"- what temple? His body

"and in three days " What was destroyed within those three days? His body/temple.

I will raise it up. Raise what up? His body/temple.

Where in the scriptures can you show me that the temple is outside his body???

 

[SLPCCC]

@SLPCCC - you asked,
Why is it that Jesus says that he will raise himself up when he dies instead of saying that his father will raise him up?

First of all, in order to understand this, I'd have to look at what did Jesus mean by the temple of his body. So please notice he says, temple OF my body. He did not say his body was a temple, but he spoke of the temple of his body.

Please use the scriptures to answer; otherwise, it's teachings of men and not of God.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Not everyone will reach the same conclusion, but the majority will. Why do you think the most prominent scientists and intellectuals are not atheists? If it were that obvious, this wouldn't be the case.

Yes, there have been many top scientists among believers. I don't know what is their reason to believe. Pascal had a religious experience...

I just know that indoctrination can cause strong confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance.

 

[Trailblazer]

You do know that the Bible teaches that the resurrection body is immortal, it does not die again.
Jesus rising from the dead means that He rose in His resurrection body which does not die again.
He is not in the grave, He is not in Hades, He is alive in heaven in His immortal body.

You do know that means that Jesus did not rise in the same physical body that died on the cross.
Physical bodies are not immortal, so they cannot live forever in heaven (1 Cor15:50)

The disciples who saw Jesus after He rose saw him in his immortal spiritual body
Likewise, the disciples who saw him ascend to heaven (Acts 1:10-11) saw his spiritual body go up.

Jesus is alive in heaven in His immortal spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

 

[Trailblazer]

@Soapy
Post moved from the other thread.

Soapy: I notice you didn’t disagree to being deceived by your false prophet. Well, that’s a start from which you can progress towards the true and last prophet of God, Jesus Christ.

TB: I did disagree that I was not deceived by a false prophet when I said:
"I believe that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God, the return of Christ, and the messiah of the Old Testament, Without a doubt."
Therefore, Baha'u'llah was not a false prophet.

Soapy: What does a prophet do, what is his purpose?
Jesus represented the ‘End of the Law’ (not an end to the law!):

• ‘[Father]… Eternal life depends on YOU, the only true God… and in Jesus Christ whom you sent’
• ‘I will send to you the promise of the Father, the advocate who will remain with you eternally… the Spirit of God’

TB: What a prophet does is bring a message from God to humanity. That message varies from age to age.
Baha'u'llah brought back the Law, just as Muhammad did before Him.

Jesus was the Spirit of God who will remain with us eternally…
Baha'u'llah was the advocate who will remain with us eternally…

The promise of the Father, the advocate who will remain with you eternally, is the promise of Baha'u'llah.

Jesus was a Comforter.
Baha'u'llah was another Comforter and the Spirit of truth.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Soapy: Baha'u'llah is not a ‘Promise from God, the Father’. And he certainly is not, even by your own words, alive and with GOD’s believers eternally. In fact, I never ever heard of him in any way shape of form which means he is not a universal spiritual agency.

TB: Baha'u'llah is a ‘Promise from God, the Father’. And he certainly is, by my own words, alive and with GOD’s believers eternally.
The fact that you never ever heard of him in any way shape of form which means absolutely nothing.
How many people in the world do you think had heard of Jesus in the first two centuries after He walked the earth?

Soapy: And my being blind is true in respect of seeing any truth because there is none in Baha’i belief.

TB: How could you know that there is no truth in the Baha'i belief if you never ever heard of him in any way shape of form?

 

[Soapy]

@Soapy
Post moved from the other thread.

Soapy: I notice you didn’t disagree to being deceived by your false prophet. Well, that’s a start from which you can progress towards the true and last prophet of God, Jesus Christ.

TB: I did disagree that I was not deceived by a false prophet when I said:
"I believe that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God, the return of Christ, and the messiah of the Old Testament, Without a doubt."
Therefore, Baha'u'llah was not a false prophet.

Soapy: What does a prophet do, what is his purpose?
Jesus represented the ‘End of the Law’ (not an end to the law!):

• ‘[Father]… Eternal life depends on YOU, the only true God… and in Jesus Christ whom you sent’
• ‘I will send to you the promise of the Father, the advocate who will remain with you eternally… the Spirit of God’

TB: What a prophet does is bring a message from God to humanity. That message varies from age to age.
Baha'u'llah brought back the Law, just as Muhammad did before Him.

Jesus was the Spirit of God who will remain with us eternally…
Baha'u'llah was the advocate who will remain with us eternally…

The promise of the Father, the advocate who will remain with you eternally, is the promise of Baha'u'llah.

Jesus was a Comforter.
Baha'u'llah was another Comforter and the Spirit of truth.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Soapy: Baha'u'llah is not a ‘Promise from God, the Father’. And he certainly is not, even by your own words, alive and with GOD’s believers eternally. In fact, I never ever heard of him in any way shape of form which means he is not a universal spiritual agency.

TB: Baha'u'llah is a ‘Promise from God, the Father’. And he certainly is, by my own words, alive and with GOD’s believers eternally.
The fact that you never ever heard of him in any way shape of form which means absolutely nothing.
How many people in the world do you think had heard of Jesus in the first two centuries after He walked the earth?

Soapy: And my being blind is true in respect of seeing any truth because there is none in Baha’i belief.

TB: How could you know that there is no truth in the Baha'i belief if you never ever heard of him in any way shape of form?

It’s a sad indictment on the whole of Baha’i if after more than 2000 years that belief is not even yet a finger width on the scale of a human being religious belief.

So tell me, is Baha'u'llah a so-called prophet or is he the message?

What is his message?

Why has no one heard from him nor of him?

What is his spiritual relationship to Jesus?

 

[Trailblazer]

It’s a sad indictment on the whole of Baha’i if after more than 2000 years that belief is not even yet a finger width on the scale of a human being religious belief.

Baha'u'llah (1817-1892 AD) declared His mission from God in 1863 AD.

So tell me, is Baha'u'llah a so-called prophet or is he the message?

Baha'u'llah was a Prophet/Messenger of God/Manifestation of God, just as Jesus was a Prophet/Messenger of God/Manifestation of God.
Baha'u'llah was a Mediator between God and man, just as Jesus was a Mediator between God and man.

What is his message?

What is the message of the Baháʼí?

The principal Bahāʾī tenets are the essential unity of all religions and the unity of humanity. Bahāʾīs believe that all the founders of the world's great religions have been manifestations of God and agents of a progressive divine plan for the education of the human race.

Baha'i Faith | History, Practices, & Facts - Britannica​

Why has no one heard from him nor of him?

Do you ever go on the internet? Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith are everywhere on the internet. Baha'i communities exist in over 250 countries and the Baha'i Faith is the second most widespread religion in the world, closely trailing Christianity.

What is his spiritual relationship to Jesus?

Baha'u'llah was the return of the Spirit of Jesus.

“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, “I go away, and come again unto you”? Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: “When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 246

“We, in truth, have sent Him Whom We aided with the Holy Spirit (Jesus Christ) that He may announce unto you this Light that hath shone forth from the horizon of the will of your Lord, the Most Exalted, the All-Glorious, and Whose signs have been revealed in the West. Set your faces towards Him (Bahá’u’lláh) on this Day which God hath exalted above all other days, and whereon the All-Merciful hath shed the splendour of His effulgent glory upon all who are in heaven and all who are on earth.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 18

“This is, truly, that which the Spirit of God (Jesus Christ) hath announced, when He came with truth unto you, He with Whom the Jewish doctors disputed, till at last they perpetrated what hath made the Holy Spirit to lament, and the tears of them that have near access to God to flow….”
Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 19

“The Word which the Son concealed is made manifest. It hath been sent down in the form of the human temple in this day. Blessed be the Lord Who is the Father! He, verily, is come unto the nations in His most great majesty.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 84-85

“Ye make mention of Me, and know Me not. Ye call upon Me, and are heedless of My Revelation…. O people of the Gospel! They who were not in the Kingdom have now entered it, whilst We behold you, in this day, tarrying at the gate. Rend the veils asunder by the power of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Bounteous, and enter, then, in My name My Kingdom. Thus biddeth you He Who desireth for you everlasting life…” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 91

“WE, verily, have come for your sakes, and have borne the misfortunes of the world for your salvation. Flee ye the One Who hath sacrificed His life that ye may be quickened? Fear God, O followers of the Spirit (Jesus), and walk not in the footsteps of every divine that hath gone far astray… Open the doors of your hearts. He Who is the Spirit (Jesus) verily, standeth before them.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 92

Baha'u'llah says WE because He is referring to Himself and Jesus Christ. Both of them have borne the misfortunes of the world for our salvation.

 

[metis]

There's insufficient evidence that atheism is true, yet there are still atheist believers. You need a lot of faith to be an atheist. It was too much for me. For me, I found that the evidence of the resurrection outweighs the belief in atheism.

Seems that you're implying I'm an atheist. I'm not, but neither am I a conservative Christian.

 

[Soapy]

Baha'u'llah (1817-1892 AD) declared His mission from God in 1863 AD.

Baha'u'llah was a Prophet/Messenger of God/Manifestation of God, just as Jesus was a Prophet/Messenger of God/Manifestation of God.
Baha'u'llah was a Mediator between God and man, just as Jesus was a Mediator between God and man.

What is the message of the Baháʼí?

The principal Bahāʾī tenets are the essential unity of all religions and the unity of humanity. Bahāʾīs believe that all the founders of the world's great religions have been manifestations of God and agents of a progressive divine plan for the education of the human race.

Baha'i Faith | History, Practices, & Facts - Britannica​

Do you ever go on the internet? Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith are everywhere on the internet. Baha'i communities exist in over 250 countries and the Baha'i Faith is the second most widespread religion in the world, closely trailing Christianity.

Baha'u'llah was the return of the Spirit of Jesus.

“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, “I go away, and come again unto you”? Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: “When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 246

“We, in truth, have sent Him Whom We aided with the Holy Spirit (Jesus Christ) that He may announce unto you this Light that hath shone forth from the horizon of the will of your Lord, the Most Exalted, the All-Glorious, and Whose signs have been revealed in the West. Set your faces towards Him (Bahá’u’lláh) on this Day which God hath exalted above all other days, and whereon the All-Merciful hath shed the splendour of His effulgent glory upon all who are in heaven and all who are on earth.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 18

“This is, truly, that which the Spirit of God (Jesus Christ) hath announced, when He came with truth unto you, He with Whom the Jewish doctors disputed, till at last they perpetrated what hath made the Holy Spirit to lament, and the tears of them that have near access to God to flow….”
Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 19

“The Word which the Son concealed is made manifest. It hath been sent down in the form of the human temple in this day. Blessed be the Lord Who is the Father! He, verily, is come unto the nations in His most great majesty.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 84-85

“Ye make mention of Me, and know Me not. Ye call upon Me, and are heedless of My Revelation…. O people of the Gospel! They who were not in the Kingdom have now entered it, whilst We behold you, in this day, tarrying at the gate. Rend the veils asunder by the power of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Bounteous, and enter, then, in My name My Kingdom. Thus biddeth you He Who desireth for you everlasting life…” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 91

“WE, verily, have come for your sakes, and have borne the misfortunes of the world for your salvation. Flee ye the One Who hath sacrificed His life that ye may be quickened? Fear God, O followers of the Spirit (Jesus), and walk not in the footsteps of every divine that hath gone far astray… Open the doors of your hearts. He Who is the Spirit (Jesus) verily, standeth before them.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 92

Baha'u'llah says WE because He is referring to Himself and Jesus Christ. Both of them have borne the misfortunes of the world for our salvation.

Why didn’t Jesus tell the apostles that God would send another prophet?

Why didn’t God tell the believers that Hd would send another prophet after Jesus Christ?

What is the point of another prophet after Jesus’ glorious performance and sacrifice, raised u to the heavenly place, and made to be ruler over creation seated on the throne of the God named King of the Israelites, David?

There is nothing at all except that Jesus warned the believers not to believe anyone who came in his name (nor in fact, anyone attempting to confess another belief amounting to anything like his teaching and an apostle wrote:

• “For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, … “

 

[Trailblazer]

Why didn’t Jesus tell the apostles that God would send another prophet?

Why didn’t God tell the believers that He would send another prophet after Jesus Christ?

Jesus did tell them that and God did tell them that.
The prophecies for the return of Christ are all in the OT and the NT for people to parse out if they really want to know.

The Bible foretold the Coming of a Promised One who would be the return of Christ, who is also and the Messiah that the Jews have been waiting for. All the prophecies for the return of Christ have been fulfilled and the messianic age prophecies are in the process of being fulfilled and will be fulfilled during the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah, which will last no less than 1000 years. If people really want to know the truth about Baha'u'llah they would look at those prophecies and how they were fulfilled. The Bible is amazingly accurate.

All that is explained in the book Thief in the Night by William Sears.

Some of the prophecies and how they were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah are depicted in the following 10 minute video.

What is the point of another prophet after Jesus’ glorious performance and sacrifice, raised u to the heavenly place, and made to be ruler over creation seated on the throne of the God named King of the Israelites, David?

The point of another Prophet was to help us build the kingdom of God on earth.

Matthew 6:10 New International Version (NIV)
your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

There is nothing at all except that Jesus warned the believers not to believe anyone who came in his name (nor in fact, anyone attempting to confess another belief amounting to anything like his teaching.

Baha'u'llah did not come in the name of Jesus, He came with a new name.

As the Bible says Christ would return with a new name, so we know he would not be called Jesus.

Isaiah 62:2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12-13 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

The new name means that the return of Christ would be another man.

 

[Ebionite]

anFrom what I read, we probably don't have the book of Jasher, iow it has been lost.

What is the Book of Jasher and should it be in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

What is the Book of Jasher/Jashar and should it be in the Bible? If the Bible quotes from the Book of Jasher, why isn’t the Book of Jasher in the Bible?

www.gotquestions.org

Those with an interest in the status quo have reason to want it to be marginalised. It has information about how the sealed book relates to Rome and the state of Israel via the Edomites. This information dovetails with the other references to the sealed book that are found in the Bible.