Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the only similarity is that the number three is involved.
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Why So Much Trinity Bashing?
- Thread starter Rival
- Start date
And the principle. A trinity being.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
A late arrival.
Yes, he's the3rd son but that doesn't explain or mention who was Cain's wife.
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I never brought up the issue of "incest", plus exactly how in the world could you possibly know God has an "unchanging nature"? In Exodus, with pharaoh, did he not change his mind?
Most theologians I've read on this believe it's the same myth but from different authors. Again, "myth" does not mean nor imply falsehood.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
All things were created by God, the Father.
The following two verses in John 1 go together. Verse 2 refers to God, and verse 3 refers to him (God.)
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Jesus did not create the universe (all things), God did. That is how we know that these verses are about God, not Jesus.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Jesus did not create anything because Jesus is not God.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Colossians 1
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
- Jesus was the one in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
- Jesus was the image of God, which means that Jesus was not God, since an image is not what it reflects; Jesus was like a mirror reflecting God.
- By him (the invisible God) all things were created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Incest is not the right word to use regarding Adam and Eve and their immediate children.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Anyway, all men are now destined to die. Jesus came for a different purpose.
Dimi95
Прaвославие!
I only asked because you stated fourA late arrival.
Dimi95
Прaвославие!
Here is another failed attempt to attack the Trinity
www.youtube.com
Maybe someone who has the time will watch it
DEBATE Jay Dyer Vs Jake Muslim Metaphysician | Trinity Vs Tawhid
Find us on your favorite PODCAST app as all our YouTube debates end up on the podcast within 24 hours of being live.LINKS TO GUESTS:@JayDyer @JakeBrancatella...
www.youtube.com
Maybe someone who has the time will watch it
SLPCCC
Active Member
Who is this talking about?
- Col 1: 16-17 states, "for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; 17 and he is before all things, and in him, all things consist."
Do you know that God calls Jesus God?
- Psalm 45: 6 "Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. Your royal scepter is a scepter of equity;
- Hebrews 1:8: . . . "But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
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SLPCCC
Active Member
Why is it that Jesus says that he will raise himself up when he dies instead of saying that his father will raise him up?
John 2: 19-22 - Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews then said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?" But he was speaking about the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
John 2: 19-22 - Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews then said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?" But he was speaking about the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Me too I was wondering but didn't want to ask. So you did.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I'll have to research this, but looking at it a little closer, he was speaking of the temple of his body, right?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Brian2
Veteran Member
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He (the Word) was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him (the Word), and without him (the Word) was not any thing made that was made.
Everyone else in the universe can read it and see that all things were made through the Word, why can't you?
BTW when it says "and the Word was God" it does not mean that the Word was the God that the Word was with. It seems to mean that the Word was exactly like the God he was with.
That does not tell us about who or what God is, it just says that God created everything. IOW we should not read our definition of "God" into it, and assume it is true.
Again, everyone else in the universe can see that "By him all things were created" refers to Jesus, why can't you?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Not everyone else in the universe, just Christians.
I can't because it is completely illogical to believe that the man Jesus created all things in the universe. That would be logically impossible.
I cannot believe illogical things.
True.
God is God. God is known by His attributes.
Jesus shares some but not all of God's attributes. That is how we know that Jesus is not God.
Not everyone else in the universe, just Christians.
I can't because it is completely illogical to believe that the man Jesus created all things in the universe. That would be logically impossible.
I cannot believe illogical things.
SLPCCC
Active Member
Do you believe that Jesus died on the cross and, after 3 days, was raised from the dead? Or is that illogical?
SLPCCC
Active Member
Of course not. Even nontrinitarians know it's talking about Jesus. But you don't put your faith in the scriptures. Your faith is in the Koran or another book, correct?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I believe that Jesus died on the cross but I do not believe that the physical body of Jesus came back to life after three days.
That is not only illogical, it is impossible.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I have my own interpretation of the Bible, one that makes logical sense.
All things were created through God, and God is before all things, and in God all things consist.
Paul really messed up when He tried to elevate Jesus and make Jesus superhuman, on par with God.
Below is an excerpt from the section of a book entitled The Light Shineth in Darkness, Studies in revelation after Christ by Udo Schaefer which explains how Paul changed the course of Christianity. You can read the entire section of the book which includes the references on the link to my thread below.
How Paul changed the course of Christianity
“That the figure of the Nazarene, as delivered to us in Mark’s Gospel, is decisively different from the pre-existent risen Christ proclaimed by Paul, is something long recognized by thinkers like Kant, Fichte, Schelling, Herder and Goethe, to mention only a few. The distinction between ‘the religion of Christ’ and ‘the Christian religion’ goes back to Lessing. Critical theological research has now disputed the idea of an uninterrupted chain of historical succession: Luther’s belief that at all times a small handful of true Christians preserved the true apostolic faith. Walter Bauer (226) and Martin Werner (227) have brought evidence that there was conflict from the outset about the central questions of dogma. It has become clear that the beliefs of those who had seen and heard Jesus in the flesh --- the disciples and the original community--- were at odds to an extraordinary degree with the teaching of Paul, who claimed to have been not only called by a vision but instructed by the heavenly Christ. The conflict at Antioch between the apostles Peter and Paul, far more embittered as research has shown (228) than the Bible allows us to see, was the most fateful split in Christianity, which in the Acts of the Apostles was ‘theologically camouflaged’. (229)
Paul, who had never seen Jesus, showed great reserve towards the Palestinian traditions regarding Jesus’ life. (230) The historical Jesus and his earthly life are without significance for Paul. In all his epistles the name ‘Jesus’ occurs only 15 times, the title ‘Christ’ 378 times. In Jesus’s actual teaching he shows extraordinarily little interest. It is disputed whether in all his epistles he makes two, three or four references to sayings by Jesus. (231) It is not Jesus’ teaching, which he cannot himself have heard at all (short of hearing it in a vision), that is central to his own mission, but the person of the Redeemer and His death on the Cross.
Jesus, who never claimed religious worship for himself was not worshipped in the original community, is for Paul the pre-existent risen Christ….
This was the ‘Fall’ of Christianity: that Paul with his ‘Gospel’, which became the core of Christian dogma formation, conquered the world, (237) while the historic basis of Christianity was declared a heresy….
Pauline heresy served as the basis for Christian orthodoxy, and the legitimate Church was outlawed as heretical’. (240) The ‘small handful of true Christians’ was Nazarene Christianity, which was already extinct in the fourth century……
The centerpiece then, of Christian creedal doctrine, that of Redemption, is something of which—in the judgment of the theologian E. Grimm (244) --- Jesus himself knew nothing; and it goes back to Paul. “
(Udo Schaefer, Light Shineth in Darkness, Studies in revelation after Christ )
How Paul changed the course of Christianity