Why socialism fails sometimes

[Estro Felino]

Scandinavian countries with the Nordic model are the perfect example of successful socialism.
Nordic model - Wikipedia
Does this mean socialism always functions perfectly? Of course not. The very word socialism tells us that social cohesion and cooperation are the first requirement...and this is attained very easily in monoethnic societies..as Sweden has always been for two millennia.
It's an anthropological issue: socialism will fail more often in conflictive societies like Venezuela

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The Scandinavian countries are not socialist. Lol. They have some features of social democracy but they're still capitalist. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it. You seem to be saying that people get along more if they are of the same ethnicity. There's no evidence of that. Are you saying segregation is better?

 

[Mock Turtle]

I don't think this is essentially about Socialism, but more about a country that has existed on its own (like many) without too much immigration in the past. Sweden has generally been a wealthy country and perhaps because of this tended to get less immigration - the cost of living there. But the same problems as outlined exist in the UK too - large amounts of immigration by those insisting on bringing their cultural/religious baggage along with them. And we have the same problem with increased crime - especially of a sexual nature towards females. I'm sure these problems are occurring in many other countries too - and often being a consequence of wars.

Toleration of the cultural and religious views of others is something to be admired, but perhaps not when the whole nature of a previously existing society is threatened and/or changed because of large influxes of immigrants. As mentioned, many countries just do seem to have miscalculated in the effects and numbers involved. One can hardly blame the immigrants for wanting to hold onto their particular beliefs, but on the other hand, it does seem disrespectful to a country to expect to enter and change the ways of life of those living there - particularly when much is quite alien to them. It seems that controlled immigration would be the safest option here, although not that practicable given the large numbers involved.

 

[sun rise]

That Wikipedia article defines the Nordic model as follows. As noted earlier, this includes quite a bit of free market capitalism. Command economies don't work as has been proven repeatedly. The Nordic countries avoid that trap for the most part:

This includes a combination of free market capitalism with a comprehensive welfare state and collective bargaining at the national level with a high percentage of workers belonging to a labour union;[4] and state provision of free education and free healthcare as well as generous, guaranteed pension payments for retirees funded by taxation.

 

[LuisDantas]

It's an anthropological issue: socialism doesn't work in Brazil because it's not a monoethnic country.

Hardly. That is just destructive nonsense.

Brazil does not work as a community because it never learned better. We are still emulating infantile values inherited from monarchy.

 

[Sunstone]

These little games of "in my theory socialism should work" and "in my theory socialism should not work". Priceless.

 

[Estro Felino]

Hardly. That is just destructive nonsense.

Brazil does not work as a community because it never learned better. We are still emulating infantile values inherited from monarchy.

O Portugal era uma monarquia também...porém agora é um povo muito unido que funciona como comunidade....

I wonder why....

Portugal largely taught us that, but it has a smaller territory, a couple of world wars, and an overall much less complex situation to help it find its way.

I think Portugal's monoethnicity is its strength..
Even if its economy is weakened by EU policies...it will improve a lot, I think.

Btw I started this thread because so many people wondered why socialism failed in Venezuela

 

[YmirGF]

These little games of "in my theory socialism should work" and "in my theory socialism should not work". Priceless.

Agreed. *sigh* It's almost like a race to the bottom of intellectual capacity.

 

[Mock Turtle]

One might wonder why democracy will possibly never work in Russia, and in the various Islamic countries while we are at it.

 

[Sunstone]

Agreed. *sigh* It's almost like a race to the bottom of intellectual capacity.

Is there a bottom to intellectual capacity? It seems we live in an age of "Deep Stupid". Like, "Deep Time" -- time expressed in billions and billions of years -- there seems to be no way to actually adequately grasp or fathom just how deep "Deep Stupid" is.

 

[Woberts]

Did you just insult ze Communism, comrade? My fellow Bolsheviks shall rain ze fury upon you ze likes of which have never been seen!
(I have no idea what ze Russian accent sounds like.)

 

[LuisDantas]

O Portugal era uma monarquia também...porém agora é um povo muito unido que funciona como comunidade....

I wonder why....(I don't know how to say it in Portuguese)

Does it?

List of Prime Ministers of Portugal - Wikipedia

Portugal has its own share of stormy situations, from all appearances. And it has just about ten million people to Brazil's two hundred million. It also has a considerably longer history in most relevant respects.

Spain is a monarchy to this day, and it can barely contain a separatist movement in Catalunha (Catalonha) - which, itself, has about seven and a half million people, not too far a jump from the whole of Portugal.

Ethnicity is bollocks - and a Brazilian will know that for a fact, as I must assume that Hawaiians do - , but actually having people understand and support each other means the world. In that respect imigration is certainly a bringer of challenges, and Brazil is nearly disfunctional in that respect, having been created from a mindset of exploitation and parasitism that it never overcame.

Portugal largely taught us that, but it has a smaller territory, a couple of world wars, and an overall much less complex situation to help it find its way.

 

[Stevicus]

Scandinavian countries with the Nordic model are the perfect example of successful socialism.
Nordic model - Wikipedia
Does this mean socialism always functions perfectly? Of course not. The very word socialism tells us that social cohesion and cooperation are the first requirement...and this is attained very easily in monoethnic societies..as Sweden has always been for two millennia.
It's an anthropological issue: socialism doesn't work in Brazil because it's not a monoethnic country.

I think it really depends on how one defines "socialism."

It also depends on how one defines "work" in the context you're using it here. "Socialism doesn't work" is often heard in debates on the subject, but what does that really mean?

A bit of historical context is also necessary in order to understand why socialism arose and gained traction in the first place. It didn't just pop up in a vacuum. It was a reaction to severe abuses, exploitation, thievery, political manipulation, genocide, and murder.

 

[Revoltingest]

Agreed. *sigh* It's almost like a race to the bottom of intellectual capacity.

It's no dumberer than other discussions on RF.
(And better than most gun control donnybrooks.)
Sure, sure, some of us have discussed socialism v capitalism ad nauseum.
But others have more to say & hear.
They shouldn't be smugly dismissed by those of us who are jaded.

 

[Stevicus]

They shouldn't be smugly dismissed by those of us who are jaded.

Someday I'll remind you that you said this.

 

[Revoltingest]

Someday I'll remind you that you said this.

Please do.
After all, I too am one of the jaded.
If ever I behave so badly here, my knuckles must be rapped.
How else will I ever learn?

 

[metis]

I think that before anyone does an OP on "socialism" they should first define it in terms of which form(s)?

All countries today are "socialistic" to varying degrees because all include various programs that taxpayers within the society pay for that are run by or regulated by the government through various governmental agencies.

So, is the People's Republic of China "socialistic", yes or no? Does "it" work there? At an average of 10% yearly growth over the last 2 & 1/2 decades, I guess it must.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think that before anyone does an OP on "socialism" they should first define it in terms of which form(s)?

All countries today are "socialistic" to varying degrees because all include various programs that taxpayers within the society pay for that are run by or regulated by the government through various governmental agencies.

So, is the People's Republic of China "socialistic", yes or no? Does "it" work there? At an average of 10% yearly growth over the last 2 & 1/2 decades, I guess it must.

My answer in this thread explains it better
Venezuela ??

 

[metis]

My answer in this thread explains it better

https://www.religiousforums.com/threads/venezuela.207792/#post-5600951d

Thanks for the clarification, and let me just say that I was not picking on you but just saying that we have these threads on "socialism" on a pretty regular basis, and inevitably there's problems because there are so many different forms and gradations of it.

 

[metis]

Can I speak with u in Italian? so your wife can translate

Ma figurati...guarda, puoi fare tutte le domande che vuoi...solo che vedo che altre persone non hanno capito il mio thread che mi sembra chiarissimo...e penso che le loro battute siano così...inutili .
Cioè offendere mi sembra.....inutile
Forse per la parola monoetnico..ma non mi sembra che sia na parolaccia....
cmq è l'ultima volta che faccio threads sulla politica.
Io ho le mie idee...se agli altri non piacciono...sinceramente...non me ne pò fregà de meno...

There's a couple of words above that she doesn't know, such as "monoetnico" and "id". But since she's from Sicily, so maybe her dialect is getting in the way.

Other than that, I "hear" ya, so take care and ciao.