Why they are fake?

[McBell]

The right is clear

Yes.
Many of their schemes are rather transparent.

 

[AhmedE]

Didn't work out as you claim.

What do you say about?
By the star when it descends,
Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred,
Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.
It is not but a revelation revealed,
Taught to him by one intense in strength -
One of soundness. And he rose to [his] true form
Surat An-Najm - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم
in surat AnNajm?
does it make sense to you that Muhammed PBUH wrote those? or from god?

 

[Harmonious]

Ahmed, I recognize that too many people are having too much fun at your expense.

Let me explain something to you. You are using what is known as circular reasoning. The reason you believe in your belief is that the texts of your belief tell you to.

The thing is, that reasoning only works for people who already share your belief system. The "truth" of your text isn't any more compelling to someone outside of your belief system than a Christian trying to tell me about why I should believe in Jesus because of what it says in the Christian scriptures.

Jews don't proselytize, so the concept of "proving" that Judaism is true isn't necessary. You can ask why we believe what we do, and we might even tell you.

But pointing to a verse that someone accepts as "truth" and say "See? This says my religious text is the truth!" isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't already accept that the religious text under description represents truth.

 

[AhmedE]

isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't already accept that the religious text

I want to say that it is not a problem for me by reflexive reasoning because God sent Quran and if you're right then you cannot believe in anything because the text only is with us ..

 

[sojourner]

They know that in their hearts god said:

Say, "What thing is greatest in testimony?" Say, " Allah is witness between me and you. And this Qur'an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby and whomever it reaches. Do you [truly] testify that with Allah there are other deities?" Say, "I will not testify [with you]." Say, "Indeed, He is but one God, and indeed, I am free of what you associate [with Him]."

Those to whom We have given the Scripture recognize it as they recognize their [own] sons. Those who will lose themselves [in the Hereafter] do not believe.

And who is more unjust than one who invents about Allah a lie or denies His verses? Indeed, the wrongdoers will not succeed.

God hasn't spoken to their hearts in such a fashion.

 

[Pegg]

I read a few moments ago about a man who was defending homosexuality! anyway you might think if you're living in a western country that it's not something wrong .. but what makes "something" wrong? .. They used in the past to open the skull if one had a headache! .. it was not something wrong (they thought so because of their ignorance) .. We all know that, of course, there are things in todays world that are identical to what was done in the past .. there is some ignorance nowadays .. I mean, for example why do some people shave their faces? you may think it's a good think, people also thought that breaking their skull would help them recover from their headache .. they thought it was a good thing .. I'll give some more examples then I'll get in the main topic .. Some people are listening to music? they think it's a "healthy" thing! you might think I'm kidding or speaking nonsense, Why do you people listen to music? the answer is pretty clear it's just for fun, they enjoy their time ..

All people are looking for their own benefit .. the man who was speaking about homosexuality who I mentioned earlier, he was just looking for their support because he is a politician .. the people who shave their faces are looking for the "fake" love of the people who appreciate that or looking for their respect or anything .. anyway .. are we created to be slaves to people? to look for their satisfaction? is that the main purpose of us in this life?

The next time you see someone who tells you that he loves you .. how would you know? if he really loves you? I need to clarify something before answering this question .. If people are looking for their own good .. then why do people love other people? may be for their beauty or their money or anything else .. but what's the true love? the true love is the love in the sake of god ..

If I analyzed what I mentioned above .. it's clear that their are two ways .. you are looking for your benefit in this life .. or you are looking for the benefit in the hereafter ..

If we looked at Islam it's clear in its teachings that one must follow the truth look for it even if the other religions were true a Muslim would follow it .. but there's no religion after Islam .. Jews and Christians in fact if they are real scholars know that Islam is the right religion .. they just want to stick to their religion even if it was false ..

In brief man is created in this life to be tested if he was good or evil if he worshiped god or not .. and it's clear in Surat Al-baqara ..

So, why are people who don't do things in the sake of god are fake?

what makes Islam the true religion in your opinion?

 

[LuisDantas]

I want to say that it is not a problem for me by reflexive reasoning because God sent Quran and if you're right then you cannot believe in anything because the text only is with us ..

Sorry, AhmedE, but it just does not work that way.

People can indeed believe whatever they want, and reading the Quran is just not all that compelling for many people.

 

[AhmedE]

God hasn't spoken to their hearts in such a fashion.

What made you judge with that? is this thing more reliable?

 

[AhmedE]

true religion in your opinion

Because god told us that it's the religion ..

 

[AhmedE]

People can indeed believe whatever they want

They can but they mustn't because it's not a game they are playing .. of course it's their own responsibility but they also have the responsibility of learning

 

[Pegg]

Because god told us that it's the religion ..

It may be the religion for your people, but its not the religion founded by Christ Jesus. And his approach to worship is far more 'godlike' then what I see in Islam.

For me, a true religion must be based on 'love' because God is Love. Even in Islam it is said that God is all 'Merciful'...yet Islam is not a merciful religion when we consider its punishments for wrongdoing. Putting someone to death is not mercy. Stoning someone is not mercy. Beating them with rods is not mercy.

If Islam preaches 'mercy' but does not 'practice' mercy, then how can it be a true religion? True religion must reflect the nature of God.... and if Islam claims that the nature of God is Mercy, then it should likewise practice mercy.

 

[LuisDantas]

They can but they mustn't because it's not a game they are playing .. of course it's their own responsibility but they also have the responsibility of learning

You are not the first Muslim who seems to sincerely believe that I - or everyone really - would become Muslims ourselves if we just read the Quran with a honest heart.

I feel sorry for you. I truly do. It must be frustrating to keep hoping for that what will never come.

It is because it is not a game that I will never convert to Islam. And also because I take my responsibilities seriously.

Islam is not prepared to deal with my atheism and my insistence on questioning things. What would the point of attempting to join it be?

 

[sojourner]

What made you judge with that? is this thing more reliable?

Because if God had spoken to their hearts in such a manner, they'd be Muslim instead of Jewish or Christian. Of curse there's truth to Islam. But truth is bigger than just Islam, just as Xy and Judaism also have truth, but truth is bigger than either.

 

[AhmedE]

religion must reflect the nature of God

do you mean that god won't punish the disbelievers with hell fire in your religion?
anyway you cannot use this rules that you put to judge the religion .. and you cannot refuse a religion if it was from god .. and nobody says that Islam punishes innocent people .. that is not true and nobody can say that criminals should be respected!

 

[Nietzsche]

They can but they mustn't because it's not a game they are playing .. of course it's their own responsibility but they also have the responsibility of learning

And what do you have to say to those of us who're not monotheists? You know, Pagans, the ones who worship a pantheon of Gods.

do you mean that god won't punish the disbelievers with hell fire in your religion?

Nope! Odin doesn't care about what you believe, only how you act.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm not Pegg, but...

do you mean that god won't punish the disbelievers with hell fire in your religion?

No true God would, don't you think?

This is so self-evident to me that I make a point of not giving a lot of thought to religions that claim such a pointlessly violent God.

anyway you cannot use this rules that you put to judge the religion .. and you cannot refuse a religion if it was from god ..

If I can't refuse a religion than it is not at all true, by definition. It matters not that some people might insist that it is from god.

and nobody says that Islam punishes innocent people .. that is not true and nobody can say that criminals should be respected!

Of course criminals should be respected. They are people. Everyone needs respect.

 

[AhmedE]

I feel sorry for you. I truly do

anyway it's your decision god has made us successors upon the earth. And whoever disbelieves - upon him will be [the consequence of] his disbelief.

 

[AhmedE]

if God had spoken to their hearts in such a manner

It's not believing only that Quran from god makes a muslim because he also must pray and do the orders of god ..

 

[Pegg]

do you mean that god won't punish the disbelievers with hell fire in your religion?

Do you think a merciful and loving God would actually do that?

anyway you cannot use this rules that you put to judge the religion .. and you cannot refuse a religion if it was from god

'IF' it was formed by God... i agree. But your religion was formed by Mohammad and you follow Mohammad.

.. and nobody says that Islam punishes innocent people .. that is not true and nobody can say that criminals should be respected!

There are NO innocent people on this earth. Every person is a sinner and guilty of sin. Nobody perfectly adheres to Gods laws and standards. That is why we are all dying.

Have you ever met a Muslim who has never died?? Im sure you havnt'. The reason for that is because every man who sins, will die according to Gods decree which he imposed on Adam in the Garden of Eden. If Adam disobeyed Gods law, he would be put to death and he was put to death. And ever since, every one from among mankind who likewise do not obey Gods laws have been dying. Death is Gods punishment for sin... not hellfire and torture for all eternity. A merciful God would not spend eternity torturing people.

 

[LuisDantas]

anyway it's your decision god has made us successors upon the earth. And whoever disbelieves - upon him will be [the consequence of] his disbelief.

It is not much of a decision, frankly. What would you do when given a choice between being fraudulent and unconfortable or instead being honest to yourself?

Despite what I have no doubt many people told you for a long time, it is outright impossible for an all-powerful God worth of any respect to want me to believe in His existence.

That premise is self-contradictory, because a worthy God would know how to respect my atheism - and that is assuming that he did not insist on making me an atheist on the first place.

Do you perhaps think that God wants me to believe in his existence and I somehow resist that? Could I even conceivably be more powerful than the creator of existence itself, to the point of denying his will?

I'm not a particularly wise man, but I sure see such a thought as simply silly.