Why vegetarianism?

[1213]

Here's one source and there's many more: Climate Change: Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide | NOAA Climate.gov

Causes and Effects of Climate Change | United Nations

CO2 emissions - Our World in Data

Global Warming vs. Climate Change | Facts – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet (nasa.gov)

Thank you. Very nicely produced pages. I don't believe many things they claim. But, the biggest problem in all that is this claim:

"Carbon dioxide is Earth’s most important greenhouse gas: a gas that absorbs and radiates heat. Unlike oxygen or nitrogen"

Can you explain why it is so? I didn't notice it explained in those pages and I think that is the crucial issue. What is the mechanism, how is it possible that the carbon is the problem, but not for example oxygen, which is heavier element than carbon?

 

[Secret Chief]

I don't believe many things they claim.

And therein lies the issue. You don't believe the factual information produced by the likes of NASA and the UN, but you do believe a lot of unfounded nonsense.

 

[metis]

I don't believe many things they claim.

And why is it that you don't believe? Have you studied climate change scientifically? What is your opinion based on?

But, the biggest problem in all that is this claim:

"Carbon dioxide is Earth’s most important greenhouse gas: a gas that absorbs and radiates heat. Unlike oxygen or nitrogen"

That's not a problem since not all gases have the same effect. Higher CO2 levels creates like a blanket effect, namely allowing the sun's rays in but slowing the escape of heat at night.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You honestly believe that's all we give all the cows in the USA to eat?

Kinda missed the point. You can get grass fed beef. Look into it.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Only in a few areas of the country can cattle be raised to prime market condition on pasture grasses alone.

So? Nowhere can you get vegan food that doesn't cause harm.

 

[Secret Chief]

Nowhere can you get vegan food that doesn't cause harm.

Hmmmm that sounds well-informed.
Fruit. Vegetables. Pulses. Please state what harm these cause.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Hmmmm that sounds well-informed.
Fruit. Vegetables. Pulses. Please state what harm these cause.

Seriously? Have you ever farmed or had a garden? Do you understand that most all vegetables are grown using dead animals or animal matter, or else harmful synthetics?
That includes organic.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Hmmmm that sounds well-informed.
Fruit. Vegetables. Pulses. Please state what harm these cause.

Do you understand that to grow vegetables, you have to kill the little animals that live in the field?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Kinda missed the point. You can get grass fed beef. Look into it.

Grass-fed cattle do not eat 100% grass, and even then the grass they eat is still specifically grown and cultivated for them. It's still land, and still uses resources to grow and cultivate.

So no, I did not miss the point. You missed mine, repeatedly.

 

[Secret Chief]

Do you understand that to grow vegetables, you have to kill the little animals that live in the field?

Good one.

 

[Secret Chief]

Seriously? Have you ever farmed or had a garden? Do you understand that most all vegetables are grown using dead animals or animal matter, or else harmful synthetics?
That includes organic.

And this is your defence of the meat industry?

 

[1213]

...
That's not a problem since not all gases have the same effect. Higher CO2 levels creates like a blanket effect, namely allowing the sun's rays in but slowing the escape of heat at night.

But, the question is, what in C is that makes it do that?

Also, it would be nice to know, why sulfur dioxide allegedly causes cooling and somehow carbon dioxide warming? I don't think there is any logical reason to believe so. But, I appreciate, if you can give some good scientific explanation what is the difference between those two.

But volcanic gases like sulfur dioxide can cause global cooling, while volcanic carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas, has the potential to promote global warming.
Volcanoes Can Affect Climate | U.S. Geological Survey (usgs.gov)

 

[1213]

You don't believe the factual information produced by the likes of NASA and the UN, but you do believe a lot of unfounded nonsense.

Why do you believe they are factual, because of fancy name, or because they support your world view?

 

[Secret Chief]

Why do you believe they are factual, because of fancy name, or because they support your world view?

Nothing to do with my worldview. It is the scientific consensus.

 

[metis]

But, the question is, what in C is that makes it do that?

I'm not a climate scientist but I do know from those that are that this is indeed the #1 cause of the recent global warming, especially since this effect has been known since the late 1800's.

Also, it would be nice to know, why sulfur dioxide allegedly causes cooling and somehow carbon dioxide warming?

My understanding is that it's not the chemical makeup of sulfur dioxide but is the volcanic clouds that throw the sun's radiation back into space before reaching ground. "Nuclear winter" hypothetically could have a similar effect according to a research team headed by Carl Sagan, much to their surprise: Nuclear winter - Wikipedia

 

[Wildswanderer]

And this is your defence of the meat industry?

This is an explanation of what works and works well, that is, the old way of combining farming animals and plants. The Amish still do it and so do some others. The animal matter supports the soil for the plants, and the vegetables and such are able to be grown without synthetic fertilizers. It's almost as if someone designed it to work that way. Alas, there is more labor involved, but more rewards when the soil is maintained by animal and crop rotation.
You seem to be under the impression that I should feel some kind of guilt for eating animals? Not the ones I raised and butcher.
If you have trouble with the meat industry, seek out independent farmers to buy from or raise your own meat.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Grass-fed cattle do not eat 100% grass, and even then the grass they eat is still specifically grown and cultivated for them. It's still land, and still uses resources to grow and cultivate.

So no, I did not miss the point. You missed mine, repeatedly.

So does plants for humans and no, you don't always have to cultivate grassland.
And it's so much better than the wasteland left by a bean field.

 

[Secret Chief]

You seem to be under the impression that I should feel some kind of guilt for eating animals? Not the ones I raised and butcher.
If you have trouble with the meat industry, seek out independent farmers to buy from or raise your own meat.

I don't expect you to feel anything. I stopped eating meat 40 years ago as it is not necessary and I could not be a part of something that I consider is cruel, abusive, disgusting, abhorrent and horrific. You can therefore perhaps imagine I will not be taking up your suggestion.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I don't expect you to feel anything. I stopped eating meat 40 years ago as it is not necessary and I could not be a part of something that I consider is cruel, abusive, disgusting, abhorrent and horrific. You can therefore perhaps imagine I will not be taking up your suggestion.

Really, one could make the argument that merely living on the planet requires one to be cruel, because no matter what, you are killing other beings. But of course that's the way nature works.

 

[Secret Chief]

Really, one could make the argument that merely living on the planet requires one to be cruel, because no matter what, you are killing other beings. But of course that's the way nature works.

One could but I don't. I consider cruelty to be a human construct. A carnivore killing a being is not being cruel. Yes, by living all beings kill, even if only unintentionally. But that in itself is not "cruelty." If I walk across a field and in so doing kill insects under my feet, that is not cruelty. Cruelty is endemic in the meat industry.