Why Was Jesus Necessary?

[sojourner]

Now I am again wondering what on earth people are taught in theological colleges?

There’s one way for you to find out. Your attendance would be a boon to all of us.

This statement is in direct opposition to the apostle John's revelation which came from Jesus himself....hardly Hellenistic

Well, since John of Patmos was Hellenistic, it would stand to reason that his writing is ... Hellenistic.

 

[sojourner]

but very inaccurate.

You’re in no position to make that judgment with any credibility. But the retort is mildly entertaining, I suppose.

 

[Miracle]

It doesn't. Answering a "what" or "how" is not answering the "why."

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To be very honest with you, I think most peoples comments have answered the why, you simply don't want to accept it as true or it doesn't fit your perspective. Since man can not answer you, then you should definitely go to God and he will answer.

But first it starts will humility and acknowledgment of ones sins.

"And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 18:13-14

God bless!

 

[sojourner]

I beg to differ my friend. Just because you haven't seen any doesn't make it true. And we aren't looking at your definition of sin we are looking at the Bible's definition.

Now you’re overreaching. I don’t have to see $100,000 to know that it exists.

Being well aware of the “biblical definition of sin,” I know what I said. We all sin.

 

[Miracle]

Now you’re overreaching. I don’t have to see $100,000 to know that it exists.

Being well aware of the “biblical definition of sin,” I know what I said. We all sin.

Ah! Well then, you are wrong. It is possible for Christians to live without sin and I have seen it first hand.

 

[Skwim]

Yeah, I looked at it again. It really does answer the “why.” Here’s how:

The biblical writers have God act through human agency (the “how”). Therefore, in order to perpetuate that paradigm, it’s necessary for salvation to also come through human agency (the “why”).

However, the premise in the OP isn't based on the fiction of writers wherein logic takes a back seat to accomplishing an objective, but based on real life where actions are expected to arise from logic order.

Back to my first answer. Because the biblical writers always have God act throughout human agency, in order for that paradigm to be consistent, God also has to effect salvation through human agency.

Just what is the paradigm that needs to be consistent? And don't get the cart before the horse.

[edit] because the biblical story is ultimately a human story, and the religion is ultimately about human beings.

So the whole sin, suffering, and salvation enterprise was created so as to make good newspaper copy? Whoa!

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[sojourner]

Ah! Well then, you are wrong. It is possible for Christians to live without sin and I have seen it first hand.

Depends on how you’re parsing out sin, I suppose. I’d be real interested to meet such a cryptid. It would be more epic than Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster.

 

[Deeje]

Nope. Revelation is a completely different book from Genesis, from a completely
different faith tradition, written in a different language, for a different intended audience, who hold different spiritual metaphors. Read Genesis. Tell me if Satan is ever mentioned in the creation myths. You’ll find that he is not.

Jesus was Jewish last time I looked. And the scripture he used was the OT. He spoke to the Jewish people in the language they understood. His audience were Jewish. Do you even know what you're talking about? You seem to be out of sinc with even other "Christians"....Did you invent your own religion?..another one that relies on just your own personal interpretation ?

Who was it that brought the trials on Job? The "adversary" in Job is the very same one who tempted Eve. What is an adversary? It is an opponent....someone who opposes is not a friend, but an enemy. If the adversary is our friend, then we also are God's enemies. Choosing sides is what this life is all about.

What the authors have Jesus say may present a certain interpretation, but it is not the myth, itself, and can not inform the myth.

You’re falling into the juvenile trap of eisegesis here.

Read my signature.

"Juvenile"? As opposed to "mature" you mean? Well I guess one of us is. God knows, and his judgment is the one that counts...right?

Bring your face over here; I take my eggs poached.

Depends on who is doing the cooking.

 

[sojourner]

However, the premise in the OP isn't based on the fiction of writers wherein logic takes a back seat to accomplishing an objective, but based on real life where actions are expected to arise from logic order.


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The whole Bible IS stories concocted by the writers. The common literary device that logically informs the theology of the religion is that “God acts through human agency.” The Bible, you remember, isn’t factual history, it’s story.

 

[sojourner]

Jesus was Jewish last time I looked. And the scripture he used was the OT. He spoke to the Jewish people in the language they understood. His audience were Jewish. Do you even know what you're talking about? You seem to be out of sinc with even other "Christians"....Did you invent your own religion?..another one that relies on just your own personal interpretation

Yes, Jesus was Judaic. BUT, the reference you gave was Revelation, which (as I pointed out) is a Hellenistic writing. As such, it cannot inform Genesis, whose roots are Sumerian of a MUCH earlier period. Please try to keep up.

Read my signature

Get a walker...

Depends on who is doing the cooking

Or who’s doing the laying...

 

[sojourner]

Who was it that brought the trials on Job

Doesn’t matter. They’re two different documents from two different time periods. Job doesn’t inform Genesis any more than Revelation does. There is no Satan mentioned in the creation myths.

You’re problem is that you’re not exegeting the text in question.

 

[sojourner]

Just what is the paradigm that needs to be consistent? And don't get the cart before the horse

As I said: God actpts through human agency. That’s the way God has consistently, historically been presented. Heck! In the creation myth, God Even brings the animals to Adam to see what Adam would call them.

So the whole sin, suffering, and salvation enterprise was created so as to make good newspaper copy? Whoa

No, the whole enterprise is a theological commentary on the human condition.

 

[Skwim]

Ah! Well then, you are wrong. It is possible for Christians to live without sin and I have seen it first hand.

I assume you're talking about Christians who are intellectually mature, and not two week-old baptized babies.

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[Skwim]

As I said: God actpts through human agency. That’s the way God has consistently, historically been presented. Heck! In the creation myth, God Even brings the animals to Adam to see what Adam would call them.


No, the whole enterprise is a theological commentary on the human condition.

Have a good day.

 

[Deeje]

Yes, Jesus was Judaic. BUT, the reference you gave was Revelation, which (as I pointed out) is a Hellenistic writing. As such, it cannot inform Genesis, whose roots are Sumerian of a MUCH earlier period. Please try to keep up.

Keep up? With complete nonsense? No thanks.

You can't be serious. Revelation is from the same God who authored the rest of scripture. John received the Revelation from Jesus who got it from God (read Revelation 1:1)....It cannot inform Genesis??? So parts of God's word don't comply with the rest of it? Boy, now I've heard everything! Who told you this? Or have you arrived at these conclusions on your own? Are you teaching others these things? Teachers have greater accountability you know.

Doesn’t matter.

How convenient! Satan is right there in the OT but it "doesn't matter"...? Really? It will be interesting to find out if it matters to God then, won't it?

They’re two different documents from two different time periods. Job doesn’t inform Genesis any more than Revelation does. There is no Satan mentioned in the creation myths.

No, of course not!.....there is no continuity in God's word at all. We can chop it up and apply it to different time periods as if nothing is connected. Wow!

And creation is a myth? OK let's see if God thinks it's a myth.

Your posts are just getting more bizarre. It doesn't occur to you that Sharmanism and Christianity are diametrically opposed? Obviously not.

You’re problem is that you’re not exegeting the text in question.

My problem? I really don't think I am the one with the problem here....but the readers will decide....and more importantly, at the end of the day, God will.

I will wait for that day......what about you?

 

[Miracle]

Depends on how you’re parsing out sin, I suppose. I’d be real interested to meet such a cryptid. It would be more epic than Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster.

I would never parse out sin. That’s the very last thing I or my family would do. Teehee!

I wish you could be here though!

 

[Miracle]

I assume you're talking about Christians who are intellectually mature, and not two week-old baptized babies.

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Of course!

2-30 years in the faith. Some who have seen God, other’s who have seen jesus and demons. Some who feel his presence and others who haven’t experienced anything but still serve him with steadfastness.

There’s very few of us and we are trying to reach out to as many as are willing to stand for God just as our forefathers have.

 

[Miracle]

Guys I feel super happy! Randomly happy....this is not good.....

 

[sojourner]

Revelation is from the same God who authored the rest of scripture. John received the Revelation from Jesus who got it from God

If you think God whispered exact words into Jesus’ ear, who whispered them into John’s ear (even though Jesus was not on earth at that time) and John transcribed it word-for-word, you’re far more naive and out of touch with the reality of the texts than I’d imagined. That ain’t how inspiration works.

How convenient! Satan is right there in the OT but it "doesn't matter

Ever been to a library? Just because all the books are in the same collection doesn’t give them continuity. The Bible is a library. It contains several different genres from many time periods, whose origins represent several cultures. Satan may be in Job, but it ain’t in the creation myths. READ. THEM. You won’t find the word “Satan” in either of them. If it ain’t there, you can’t make it magically appear. I can’t help it if you can’t understand that.

No, of course not!.....there is no continuity in God's word at all. We can chop it up and apply it to different time periods as if nothing is connected. Wow

It’s only connected by tradition. And to some extent by language.

And creation is a myth? OK let's see if God thinks it's a myth

Myth is a type of literature. It doesn’t mean “fake.”

Your posts are just getting more bizarre. It doesn't occur to you that Sharmanism and Christianity are diametrically opposed

Great! You’re frustrated, so you’ve resorted to religion-bashing. That’s very revealing. (And, no, they’re not “diametrically-opposed.”)

I really don't think

This is the only snippet in your post that I agree with.

 

[Bear Wild]

As I said: God actpts through human agency. That’s the way God has consistently, historically been presented. Heck! In the creation myth, God Even brings the animals to Adam to see what Adam would call them.


No, the whole enterprise is a theological commentary on the human condition.

It is amazing Adam came up with so many names for all of the species on the earth. Oh and do not forget the animals in the past or were they on earth before Adam. Do not remember whether the the bible stated if dinosaurs were made before or after Adam (not to mention all of the animals before dinosaurs). Did Adam or Eve name the plants? What about bacteria and fungi?