• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Why would someone acknowledge the existence of God but refuse to worship Him?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'm big on the Golden Rule--"don't do onto others what you wouldn't want others to do onto you," or "don't practice what you hate." Subjecting any being to worship would violate that golden rule for me.
That's true, and that is why God never forces anyone to worship Him. Rather, He waits for us to knock on His door first, before He will consider showing His love towards us. That is the message in this quote:

5: O SON OF BEING! Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4

So in other words, we have to love God first, before His love can reach us. The whole idea is that His Love is there all the time just waiting to get through, but it cannot get through to us unless we love God first. I consider that rather unfair to the people who cannot love God first but who am I to complain to God, He is the boss.
I like hot weather. :D
You and about half of the other Washingtonians. :rolleyes:
They either love it or they hate it.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
That's true, and that is why God never forces anyone to worship Him. Rather, He waits for us to knock on His door first, before He will consider showing His love towards us. That is the message in this quote:

5: O SON OF BEING! Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4

So in other words, we have to love God first, before His love can reach us. The whole idea is that His Love is there all the time just waiting to get through, but it cannot get through to us unless we love God first. I consider that rather unfair to the people who cannot love God first but who am I to complain to God, He is the boss.
So, god gave us free will but you won't use it because god is the boss? o_O
 

Jedster

Flying through space
He has sent many messengers and created a world filled with signs for people to reflect. Why would someone acknowledge His existence, but refuse to worship Him and to obey the commands He has told people to obey (or, the commands people think he has made known)?

Maybe these people just don't like said God.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
In submission there is wisdom. Knowledge becomes a byproduct of submission.

Regards Tony
There is a difference between knowledge and wisdom. Which did you mean?

Either way, I'm going to stick to doing my best not to do to others that I wouldn't want others to do to me. I'm not going to go the easy way and just submit to abandoning the golden rule.
 
Last edited:

Piculet

Active Member
What about a god simply existing makes a god automatically worthy of worship? Even if I were to be presented with sufficient evidence to acknowledge the existence of a god, there's no reason why I would automatically deem that god worthy of my worship.
What makes you think the messengers He sent to inform you regarding this matter aren't to be listened to?
different strokes for different folks
Why?
the principle of worshiping to be immoral.
What makes worship immoral? Do you consider the worship of money as immoral as well? And the worship of oneself and the worship of beauty?
Maybe the leaders of the religions they are in, have told them lies, like God burns people, forcing people to serve Him?
If this was a lie and you knew it, why and how would it prevent you from worshiping God? If you knew better than the learned, wouldn't you be worshipping God better and spreading the superior knowledge you have?
Because everything that exists is a tiny part of God...
Where did you get such an idea? Is God then, according to you, limited to the things He has created?
 

Samael_Khan

Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
He has sent many messengers and created a world filled with signs for people to reflect. Why would someone acknowledge His existence, but refuse to worship Him and to obey the commands He has told people to obey (or, the commands people think he has made known)?

In the same way people acknowledge that someone is a King but refuses to honour him because they don't like his policies and actions.

Read Paradise Lost.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Where did you get such an idea?
The knowledge that every thing, force and the nothingness..... all together..... are a part of God? It's obvious to me.

Is God then, according to you, limited to the things He has created?
Firstly God has no gender, so this strange idea of God being male is ............ odd.
Secondly, God is self subsisting and matter/energy has been around for too long for you or I to guess how it all came about. You certainly have no more knowledge about the initiation of universes and all else than me.

One thing I can tell you. Whenever the questions to you get slightly difficult for you..... you go away and don't come back to answer them.
So wherever you got the idea of a God with prophets and messengers to Earth (!), you don't seem to have the consistency to accept them all, just the cherry picked ones..... true?
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
He has sent many messengers and created a world filled with signs for people to reflect. Why would someone acknowledge His existence, but refuse to worship Him and to obey the commands He has told people to obey (or, the commands people think he has made known)?

What I understand less is refusing to acknowledge the presence of God. It's not just an argument from complexity, the males and females of all species are suited to go together. And even snails which reproduce sexually, despite being hermaphrodites, have a mechanism to cope with their natural tendency to both want to compete as the "male" in the relationship. A love dart so to speak. Okay, let's think about this, it just happened that their natural tendency to compete was compensated for? No, SOMEBODY knew this would be a problem, in fact designed both the problem and the solution.


This may be too risque for younger viewers.

Or how about this? You know why a meteor doesn't destroy the Earth like in all the big films (Deep Impact, Armageddon, probably a few others)? Well, we have Mars in the way. We have an asteroid belt in the way. A planet with rings in the way (these rings are made from mini asteroids themselves), and some of the other planets have mini-rings themselves. Oh yea, and several gas giants in the way. Gas giants act like a pillow, trapping solid objects in their gravity, slowing them down, and crushing then to dust. These things are all arranged.

It's not an argument from complexity, it's an argument from planning. We cannot take you seriously, and in fact will mock you if you dispute this. Either in denial, wilfully ignorant, or crazy. It's so extreme that someone would say that, so out of touch that Timothy actually called people who denied the existence of God "under a delusion." Yeah, you've heard the God Delusion book, well there's more of a case for the opposite. This things just don't work without a central planner.

But on the other hand, the idea that you have to WORSHIP such a deity is not a given. I don't expect anyone to do so. In fact, you know that "choose this day who you will serve" quote from the Bible? (even non-Christians know the song "You gotta serve someone" if they listen to blues and jazz) Well the entire passage goes that the Jews say that they will worship God, and the guy is like "No you cannot worship God" and gives loads of reasons like God not being cool if you say that today and suddenly bail later on.

Totally understand why people might understand there is a God but refuse to worship God. That's fine. But being in denial or worse, trying to talk others out of their beliefs, nah that's messed up. Especially since they tend to try to bully people new to their faith.
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
What makes worship immoral? Do you consider the worship of money as immoral as well? And the worship of oneself and the worship of beauty?

I consider worship as an excessive, unrestrained and/or unreasonnable level of respect respect for something or someone. This being completely blind and out of control behavior is risky at best and can have terrible consequences. Considering it can easily prevent human flourishment due to it's unrestrained, excessive and/or unreasonnable nature, it's thus immoral. Thus, yes, the worship of money, oneself or beauty are just as immoral to me as the worship of deities. Note that doesn't mean any of those things deserve no respect, but they deserve no worship.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
As you might recall from way back, I have a difficult time loving God, but that is not a Baha'i problem, it is a personal problem. :( How do you force yourself to live God when you don't even like Him? o_O
I've never really quite understood this. First, why do you say you don't like God, let alone love God? Is it that your idea of God is that of a person who has the power to fix stuff, but let's people suffer instead, and therefore you blame God for the suffering of this world?

Secondly, if you hold that image of God in your mind and heart, why would you choose to be part of any religion that centers upon loving God? What good or ideal are you pursuing? Is it humanist ideals, of love and supporting others? Would you be happier if your religion just dumped the God idea, and stuck with love and community instead?

As you can see it's going to be a long road home for me, but I will never stop traveling.
It seems a rather perplexing, and perhaps ill-defined road, seeing that the religion is supposed to be about loving God. :) It would seem more a path that inflicts guilt for not following what it teaches you to do, namely to love God.

Sure, Baha'is have Laws, but we Baha'u'llah wrote that the Spirit if the Law is more important than the Letter of the Law. It is what is in your heart, basically.
I think that's what all great spiritual teachers realize. It certainly is what Jesus taught, despite all those Christians who can't quite understand what that is and make it about "obeying Christ", in the sense of observing the rules to a T. Hearing those words, and understanding them internally, are two very different things.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
What makes you think the messengers He sent to inform you regarding this matter aren't to be listened to?

Why?

What makes worship immoral? Do you consider the worship of money as immoral as well? And the worship of oneself and the worship of beauty?

If this was a lie and you knew it, why and how would it prevent you from worshiping God? If you knew better than the learned, wouldn't you be worshipping God better and spreading the superior knowledge you have?

Where did you get such an idea? Is God then, according to you, limited to the things He has created?

What makes you think the messengers He sent to inform you regarding this matter aren't to be listened to?

Because I have yet to hear anything from anyone that people have labeled as 'god's messengers' that was either so vague that it could mean virtually anything or was no different than an accurate prediction... neither of which is reliable evidence in my opinion.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
So, god gave us free will but you won't use it because god is the boss? o_O
No, that is not what I meant to say. I meant that God who is the boss set it up so I would have to love Him before His love could get through to me, but I cannot choose to love God just because I have free will.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The whole idea is that His Love is there all the time just waiting to get through, but it cannot get through to us unless we love God first.
I think the way you phrase this gives the impression that the love, that you are supposed to feel for God first, is an emotional love, like what you'd feel with your partner. Correct? If I may make a suggestion, get rid of the word "love" and substitute the word surrender, or implicitly trust, and don't base it upon emotional feelings. The "love" emotionally may come as a response to what happens when you surrender.

It's about unburdening yourself, and then once that happens, feelings begin to flow. Feelings, like love, happiness, and creativity, get blocked and we don't "feel" as we wish. Don't try to muster up feelings. Let go of all of them. Unburden yourself. Unblock yourself through release. See what happens. :)
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
There is a difference between knowledge and wisdom. Which did you mean?

Either way, I'm going to stick to doing my best not to do to others that I wouldn't want others to do to me. I'm not going to go the easy way and just submit to abandoning the golden rule.

I wish you well in what you are trying to do.

When I say there is wisdom in submission, it takes knowledge of what is true submission before wisdom can be found.

Wisdom tells me, that we can never have all the Knowledge of God. How can a created being know of its creator?

It is like saying a painting can know the artist. Thus wisdom tells me, that I can pursue knowledge, but to think of myself as a source of knowledge, would be very unwise. Thus my knowledge of God, imparts the Wisdom of Submitting to God's given knowledge.

Regards Tony
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If I may make a suggestion, get rid of the word "love" and substitute the word surrender, or implicitly trust, and don't base it upon emotional feelings. The "love" emotionally may come as a response to what happens when you surrender.
Thanks for the suggestions. :)

I think I have already surrendered and trusted but maybe I was waiting for some feelings of love.
I am not really much of an emotional person, I am more mental and analytical, so I have no mushy gushy feelings towards God, except sometimes when I believe He just saved my bacon. ;) Then I blurt out "thank you God, thank you Jesus!" and I really feel something. So, analytically, I think it is about an awareness that God has some presence, some effect upon my life, rather than God just being a Being that exists in some far-off place.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I wish you well in what you are trying to do.

When I say there is wisdom in submission, it takes knowledge of what is true submission before wisdom can be found.

Wisdom tells me, that we can never have all the Knowledge of God. How can a created being know of its creator?

It is like saying a painting can know the artist. Thus wisdom tells me, that I can pursue knowledge, but to think of myself as a source of knowledge, would be very unwise. Thus my knowledge of God, imparts the Wisdom of Submitting to God's given knowledge.

Regards Tony
This kind of circular reasoning is unavailable people who haven't already jumped to the conclusion that God exists.
 
Top