Will someone please talk to me?

[JayJayDee]

To be honest it had an embarrassing start anyway, have you seen Charles Taze Russell's grave? If he was around today he would of been disfellowshipped lol!

He believed the Jews built one of the pyramids under the guide of god and put clues in it, he got the year 1914 from it.

As Pegg has mentioned, Russell mistakenly believed that the great pyramid of Egypt was connected to a prophesy in Isaiah. His belief was very strong and hence the pyramid erected on his gravesite.
He was not into 'pyramidology' but believed that it was connected to Bible prophesy.
1914 was chronologically calculated using the 'gentile times' mentioned in the Bible, not in the pyramid.
When it was proven that the pyramid was a false assumption, the belief was dispensed with in the 'refining' process that was taking place among Jehovah's people. Many things were examined and examined again. Impurities came to the surface and were skimmed off. That is what refining is all about.

The fact that the pyramid remains on his grave is because it is illegal to desecrate a gravesite. Russell would now realize that his pyramid theory was not valid. He would not have been disfellowshipped for making a wrong assumption. Gleaning the truth from God's word was a process and time has ironed out many things as "the light on the path becomes brighter" with Jehovah's day rapidly approaching. (Prov 4:18)

We see the deterioration in human behavior, an 'increasing of lawlessness' and the 'love of the greater number cooling off', just as Jesus predicted. That combined with the rest of the sign that Jesus gave, confirms that we are living in the "last days" with "critical times, hard to deal with". (2 Tim 3:1-5)

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

thats not actually how he got the date of 1914, but there were many who did believe that the pyramids had some significance is prophecy. The bible students in those days were from many different denominations and that was just a very common idea back then.

It wasnt until many years later that the bible students realised that those ideas had no bearing on bible prophecy.

This is incorrect?

Pyramidology. Following views first taught by Christian writers such as John Taylor, Charles Piazzi Smyth and Joseph Seiss, he believed the Great Pyramid of Giza was built by the Hebrews (associated to the Hyksos) under God’s direction, but to be understood only in our day. He adopted and used Seiss's phrase referring to it as "the Bible in stone". He believed that certain biblical texts, including Isaiah 19:19–20 and others, prophesied a future understanding of the Great Pyramid and adopted the view that the various ascending and descending passages represented the fall of man, the provision of the Mosaic Law, the death of Christ, the exultation of the saints in heaven, etc. Calculations were made using the pattern of an inch per year. Dates such as 1874, 1914, and 1948 were purported to have been found through the study of this monument.[51]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taze_Russell

 

[savagewind]

Maybe you are "debating about words"?

I don't think so. I think the argument is about the meaning of the word follow.

You do not know what Paul was warning Timothy about. He might have been warning about the argument over which words should be included in the "all scripture". Do you know?

Do you know if they were debating the meaning of words or were they debating which words would be for the future canon?

Do you not want to admit follow is a different verb than obey?

Like for instance three gods in one god is different than One God. Is that worth debating?

How about the words "abstain from blood"? Are those words worth debating?

How about the words "get out of her my people"? Debatable?

How about "touch nothing unclean"? How does that have anything to do with Christmas?

It seems to me you have two standards. Two standards....two horns perhaps? Will you debate those words?

 

[Curious George]

I don't think so. I think the argument is about the meaning of the word follow.

You do not know what Paul was warning Timothy about. He might have been warning about the argument over which words should be included in the "all scripture". Do you know?

Do you know if they were debating the meaning of words or were they debating which words would be for the future canon?

Do you not want to admit follow is a different verb than obey?

Like for instance three gods in one god is different than One God. Is that worth debating?

How about the words "abstain from blood"? Are those words worth debating?

How about the words "get out of her my people"? Debatable?

How about "touch nothing unclean"? How does that have anything to do with Christmas?

It seems to me you have two standards. Two standards....two horns perhaps? Will you debate those words?

I appreciate the need to understand words, especially if you are going to base your life off a compilation of words. I think that your focus is very proper indeed. If we are not going to focus on words why would anyone construe those words to mean something specific in the first place. People often will point to revelations and insist that the words clearly indicate that we are at the doorstep of the end of days. Yet if we are base our understanding not on the words but on some abstract meaning- why would there be an end of days in the first place? People often pick and choose when to give power to words and when to ignore them. I would frubal you if I could but it is still too soon. :sorry1:

 

[savagewind]

I think you have made an excellent point Sir George. If words are not symbols FOR SOMETHING, then what would they be for? They are not good for anything if their meaning is whatever the reader wants them to be.

The writer communicates a meaning. I am sure that if the message is an important one, even what someone will base his or her life on, it has a meaning and not many meanings.

What does follow mean to You?

1. To come or go after; proceed behind
3b To go in the direction of; be guided by
4 To accept the guidance, command, or leadership of
6. To take as a model or precedent; imitate
9. To come after in order, time, or position



When you read those, while you are at it, please imagine two things and see which fits. One; the person of Jesus Christ and two; the words he spoke

You say you follow Jesus by listening and by obeying the men who are following his words and the words of the apostles and prophets.

So JWs proceed behind the interpretation of the written word.
They are guided by their own understanding of what was written.
They accept the guidance of men who claim to be appointed by God.
They imitate the vision those men have of righteousness.
They actually do not come after Christ in position but in order and time they do. It appears that they do.

It would be good to come around to the person of Jesus, if you are able, before it is too late. It is what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach, isn't it?

 

[JayJayDee]

This is incorrect?

Pyramidology. Following views first taught by Christian writers such as John Taylor, Charles Piazzi Smyth and Joseph Seiss, he believed the Great Pyramid of Giza was built by the Hebrews (associated to the Hyksos) under God’s direction, but to be understood only in our day. He adopted and used Seiss's phrase referring to it as "the Bible in stone". He believed that certain biblical texts, including Isaiah 19:19–20 and others, prophesied a future understanding of the Great Pyramid and adopted the view that the various ascending and descending passages represented the fall of man, the provision of the Mosaic Law, the death of Christ, the exultation of the saints in heaven, etc. Calculations were made using the pattern of an inch per year. Dates such as 1874, 1914, and 1948 were purported to have been found through the study of this monument.[51]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taze_Russell

In this internet age, it is easy to look things up very quickly, but back at the turn of last century, research was arduous and time consuming. It took many years of research to come to conclusions and then to examine them further in the light of other scripture. Refining is a process, just as cleansing is.

We know that the great pyramids were constructed approx 2,500 years BCE, well before Abraham was even born (in 2018 BCE) and well before the Hebrews became a nation upon their release from slavery in 1513 BCE, so the pyramids could not have been constructed by the Hebrews.

The calculation for 1914 is demonstrated here....in case you are interested.

"Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses say that God’s Kingdom was established in 1914?
Two lines of evidence point to that year: (1) Bible chronology and (2) the events since 1914 in fulfillment of prophecy. Here we will consider the chronology. For fulfillment of prophecy, see the main heading “Last Days.”

Read Daniel 4:1-17. Verses 20-37 show that this prophecy had a fulfillment upon Nebuchadnezzar. But it also has a larger fulfillment. How do we know that? Verses 3 and 17 show that the dream that God gave to King Nebuchadnezzar deals with the Kingdom of God and God’s promise to give it “to the one whom he wants to . . . even the lowliest one of mankind.” The entire Bible shows that Jehovah’s purpose is for his own Son, Jesus Christ, to rule as His representative over mankind. (Psalm. 2:1-8; Dan. 7:13, 14; 1 Cor. 15:23-25; Rev. 11:15; 12:10) The Bible’s description of Jesus shows that he was indeed “the lowliest one of mankind.” (Phil. 2:7, 8; Matt. 11:28-30) The prophetic dream, then, points to the time when Jehovah would give rulership over mankind to his own Son.

What was to happen in the meantime? Rulership over mankind, as represented by the tree and its rootstock, would have “the heart of a beast.” (Dan. 4:16) The history of mankind would be dominated by governments that displayed the characteristics of wild beasts. In modern times, the bear is commonly used to represent Russia; the eagle, the United States; the lion, Britain; the dragon, China. The Bible also uses wild beasts as symbols of world governments and of the entire global system of human rulership under the influence of Satan. (Dan. 7:2-8, 17, 23; 8:20-22; Rev. 13:1, 2) As Jesus showed in his prophecy pointing to the conclusion of the system of things, Jerusalem would be “trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations” were fulfilled. (Luke 21:24) “Jerusalem” represented the Kingdom of God because its kings were said to sit on “the throne of the kingship of Jehovah.” (1 Chron. 28:4, 5; Matt. 5:34, 35) So, the Gentile governments, represented by wild beasts, would ‘trample’ on the right of God’s Kingdom to direct human affairs and would themselves hold sway under Satan’s control.—Compare Luke 4:5, 6.

For how long would such governments be permitted to exercise this control before Jehovah gave the Kingdom to Jesus Christ? Daniel 4:16 says “seven times” (“seven years,” AT and Mo, also JB footnote on verse 13). The Bible shows that in calculating prophetic time, a day is counted as a year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34) How many “days,” then, are involved? Revelation 11:2, 3 clearly states that 42 months (3 1/2 years) in that prophecy are counted as 1,260 days. Seven years would be twice that, or 2,520 days. Applying the “day for a year” rule would result in 2,520 years.
When did the counting of the “seven times” begin? After Zedekiah, the last king in the typical Kingdom of God, was removed from the throne in Jerusalem by the Babylonians. (Ezek. 21:25-27) Finally, by early October of 607 B.C.E. the last vestige of Jewish sovereignty was gone. By that time the Jewish governor, Gedaliah, who had been left in charge by the Babylonians, had been assassinated, and the remaining Jews had fled to Egypt. (Jeremiah, chapters 40-43) Reliable Bible chronology indicates that this took place 70 years before 537 B.C.E., the year in which the Jews returned from captivity; that is, it took place by early October of 607 B.C.E. (Jer. 29:10; Dan. 9:2; for further details, see the book “Let Your Kingdom Come,” pages 186-189.)
How, then, is the time calculated down to 1914? Counting 2,520 years from early October of 607 B.C.E. brings us to early October of 1914 C.E., as shown on the chart.

CALCULATING THE “SEVEN TIMES
“Seven times” = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years
A Biblical “time,” or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2, 3; 12:6, 14)
In the fulfillment of the “seven times” each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)
Early October, 607 B.C.E., to December 31, 607 B.C.E.= 1/4 year
January 1, 606 B.C.E., to December 31, 1 B.C.E. = 606 years
January 1, 1 C.E., to December 31, 1913 = 1,913 years
January 1, 1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year
Total: 2,520 years
What happened at that time? Jehovah entrusted rulership over mankind to his own Son, Jesus Christ, glorified in the heavens.—Dan. 7:13, 14.

Then why is there still so much wickedness on earth? After Christ was enthroned, Satan and his demons were hurled out of heaven and down to the earth. (Rev. 12:12) Christ as King did not immediately proceed to destroy all who refused to acknowledge Jehovah’s sovereignty and himself as the Messiah. Instead, as he had foretold, a global preaching work was to be done. (Matt. 24:14) As King he would direct a dividing of peoples of all nations, those proving to be righteous being granted the prospect of everlasting life, and the wicked being consigned to everlasting cutting-off in death. (Matt. 25:31-46) In the meantime, the very difficult conditions foretold for “the last days” would prevail. As shown under the heading “Last Days,” those events have been clearly in evidence since 1914. Before the last members of the generation that was alive in 1914 will have passed off the scene, all the things foretold will occur, including the “great tribulation” in which the present wicked world will end.—Matt. 24:21, 22, 34." (Information from Reasoning from the Scriptures WTBTS)

 

[JayJayDee]

If words are not symbols FOR SOMETHING, then what would they be for? They are not good for anything if their meaning is whatever the reader wants them to be.

Do you include yourself in that statement?

The writer communicates a meaning. I am sure that if the message is an important one, even what someone will base his or her life on, it has a meaning and not many meanings.

What does follow mean to You?

1. To come or go after; proceed behind
3b To go in the direction of; be guided by
4 To accept the guidance, command, or leadership of
6. To take as a model or precedent; imitate
9. To come after in order, time, or position

You seem a little fixated on the word "follow" as if it cancels out all the other things Jesus commanded for his disciples. :ignore:

Since Jesus is not on earth in the flesh, whom did he appoint as those assigned to "feed" his sheep? They are in the world because he said they were....but "who are they"? We need to figure that out. (Matt 24:45)

When you read those, while you are at it, please imagine two things and see which fits. One; the person of Jesus Christ and two; the words he spoke

You say you follow Jesus by listening and by obeying the men who are following his words and the words of the apostles and prophets.

If they are appointed by Jesus Christ and the 'fruits' they produce match those that Jesus himself commanded then I am happy to obey them if they tell me what Jesus Christ commanded and they abide by his commands themselves.
What does it mean when Paul said, "Obey your spiritual leaders, and do what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this with joy and not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit." (Heb 13:17 NLT)

The spiritual leaders must exist or else why would we be commanded to obey them?
They are commissioned to keep a watch over our souls and are accountable to God for doing this properly. If you give them reason for grief, they will be no benefit for you.

So JWs proceed behind the interpretation of the written word.

JW's believe that they have the correct interpretation of the written word....God's word. They are 'no part of this world' and no part of Christendom. They know what they believe and why they believe it.

They are guided by their own understanding of what was written.

They are guided by holy spirit. Who are you to say that they are not?

They accept the guidance of men who claim to be appointed by God.

The work accomplished by these men in a short span of history proves that they are from God. No other "Christian" body preaches "the good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth", for the simple reason that the churches don't have a clue as to what the "kingdom" actually is and how it "comes". They see no need to preach individually because they have a 'preacher/pastor/priest' who is supposed to do it for them. Funny, but he has never called on me with the good news.

They imitate the vision those men have of righteousness.

They try hard in their imperfection to follow the example of their master in "doing the will of God", which in this time of the end is warning of God's impending day of destruction and the glorious hope of the kingdom for all groaning humanity. They take the kingdom message to all without prejudice, so none will be able to say to God's appointed judge, Jesus Christ..."nobody told me".

They actually do not come after Christ in position but in order and time they do. It appears that they do.

I have no idea what that was supposed to mean.
The anointed rule with Christ in the heavens and will be priests for the thousand years of kingdom rule. They are the first to be resurrected. (Rev 20:6) They will be granted immortality in an incorruptible spirit body; immortality is something the angels do not even have.

It would be good to come around to the person of Jesus, if you are able, before it is too late. It is what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach, isn't it?

Yes, soon it will be too late, just like it was for the people of Noah's day. (Matt 24:37-39)It was not Noah who closed the door of the ark. Every breathing thing outside that ark perished...because they would not listen to Noah's warning.
If you figure out why people didn't listen to Noah back then, you will figure out why people refuse to listen today as well.

 

[Pegg]

This is incorrect?

Pyramidology. Following views first taught by Christian writers such as John Taylor, Charles Piazzi Smyth and Joseph Seiss, he believed the Great Pyramid of Giza was built by the Hebrews (associated to the Hyksos) under God’s direction, but to be understood only in our day. He adopted and used Seiss's phrase referring to it as "the Bible in stone". He believed that certain biblical texts, including Isaiah 19:19–20 and others, prophesied a future understanding of the Great Pyramid and adopted the view that the various ascending and descending passages represented the fall of man, the provision of the Mosaic Law, the death of Christ, the exultation of the saints in heaven, etc. Calculations were made using the pattern of an inch per year. Dates such as 1874, 1914, and 1948 were purported to have been found through the study of this monument.[51]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taze_Russell

the problem with that wiki article is that none of the men listed as those who first taught the idea are associates of Russell or the bible students.

As I said, there were many christians from various denominations who believed those ideas....Charles Russell wasnt one of the creators of the idea, but yes, he did believe that the idea had some merit. However, the date of 1914 was arrived at by Russell based on the prophecies in the book of Daniel...and that is still the prophecy we use today for our 1914 date.

 

[savagewind]

Do you include yourself in that statement?

You have been on forum long enough to know what a straw man is. Yes or no?

 

[savagewind]

If you give them reason for grief, they will be no benefit for you.

This is utterly priceless.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

the problem with that wiki article is that none of the men listed as those who first taught the idea are associates of Russell or the bible students.

I don't think they have to be I think it's just saying that Russell is one of several Christian leaders who believed in pyramidology.

As I said, there were many christians from various denominations who believed those ideas....Charles Russell wasnt one of the creators of the idea, but yes, he did believe that the idea had some merit. However, the date of 1914 was arrived at by Russell based on the prophecies in the book of Daniel...and that is still the prophecy we use today for our 1914 date.

I think he used pyramidology to support his prophecy that Jesus took the throne in 1874 and that the end/armagedon would start in the year 1914. But took his calculations from biblical events as well as the measurements from the pyramid.

 

[savagewind]

Do you include yourself in that statement?



Since Jesus is not on earth in the flesh, whom did he appoint as those assigned to "feed" his sheep? They are in the world because he said they were....but "who are they"? We need to figure that out. (Matt 24:45)

You believe the first thing in mind about what the question is about the faithful and discreet slave. (who really is) Correct? I did not. I always recognized it is a question, so I keep thinking about it. There are two scriptures about keeping on thinking.

Jesus said keep asking, seeking, knocking, (Luke 11:9)and I obeyed it. I am actually still doing it, so the answer to YOUR question is no I think.

The other scripture is Matthew 13:12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. What do you think Jesus meant by this?????


When the faithful and discreet slave start teaching You how to interpret ALL that Jesus said from the spiritual stance of the meaning, then I will begin to believe they are somebody. Please tell me when you see signs of it. How about that?

What does it mean when Paul said, "Obey your spiritual leaders, and do what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this with joy and not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit." (Heb 13:17 NLT)

The spiritual leaders must exist or else why would we be commanded to obey them?
They are commissioned to keep a watch over our souls and are accountable to God for doing this properly. If you give them reason for grief, they will be no benefit for you.

"Spiritual leaders MUST exist" Do you hear yourself when you think? You do not consider all the VERY MANY people who came and went without your "feeder". What about them?

"What does it mean?" I posted something about that. The word is not obey. [that has two very different meanings, doesn't it?) What I mean is the word translated "obey the leaders of you" is not to obey but is to persuade. To obey vs to persuade. It is "be persuaded" or maybe "be persuading." It has to do with inciting to love and fine works AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BELIEVING THEM. I would post more but um, you are not listening.

 

[JayJayDee]

The word is not obey. [that has two very different meanings, doesn't it?) What I mean is the word translated "obey the leaders of you" is not to obey but is to persuade. To obey vs to persuade. It is "be persuaded" or maybe "be persuading." It has to do with inciting to love and fine works AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BELIEVING THEM. I would post more but um, you are not listening.

One of us isn't listening but anyhow....

Concerning the word rendered "obey" in Heb 13:17 which you keep telling us is not "obey" at all; please do a search in Bible Gateway and tell me how many translations render the word in Heb 13:17 as anything but OBEY?

I couldn't find one that rendered that verse any differently. It just says "obey" those who take the lead. Perhaps you need to think again?

 

[savagewind]

One of us isn't listening but anyhow....

Concerning the word rendered "obey" in Heb 13:17 which you keep telling us is not "obey" at all; please do a search in Bible Gateway and tell me how many translations render the word in Heb 13:17 as anything but OBEY?

I couldn't find one that rendered that verse any differently. It just says "obey" those who take the lead. Perhaps you need to think again?

Are you kidding me?

If you are "in the truth" then it would not be possible to post what you just did.

You believe all other religion is Babylon the Great, a liar and an enemy of God but you keep pointing to her to prove your translation is right.

You believe the whole world lies under the power of Satan but you believe what they say. I think it is You who are feeding at two tables.

 

[savagewind]

Who is teaching the Jehovah's Witnesses to feed at two tables?

 

[Pegg]

I don't think they have to be I think it's just saying that Russell is one of several Christian leaders who believed in pyramidology.


I think he used pyramidology to support his prophecy that Jesus took the throne in 1874 and that the end/armagedon would start in the year 1914. But took his calculations from biblical events as well as the measurements from the pyramid.

yes he did believe it.

But the Watchtower Organization is not led be any man, its led by Jesus Christ. And thats why it wasnt long before those ideas were dumped completely as having any basis in prophecy.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

yes he did believe it.

But the Watchtower Organization is not led be any man, its led by Jesus Christ. And thats why it wasnt long before those ideas were dumped completely as having any basis in prophecy.

well it would be dumped when all of the predictions for the different years had failed obviously. over time they kept the 1914 date and changed the meaning to when Jesus took the throne, it's invisible and can not actually be proven or disprovedwhich is hardly evidence of being guided by holy spirit.
1914 - Failed Watchtower prophecy - Falsified History

 

[oldbadger]

I think he used pyramidology to support his prophecy that Jesus took the throne in 1874 and that the end/armagedon would start in the year 1914.

Did he? I'm not a JW, but, well, he got that just about bang on the nose, didn't he? A total World War, leading to European chaos and a Second World War, which lead to Worldwide financial meltdown over the following decades, which carries on descending even now, plus global climatic meltdown, and more.....

And he said the end would start in 1914? Bloody amazing.

Don't hold your breath. Live every day to the full. And prepare.....

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Did he? I'm not a JW, but, well, he got that just about bang on the nose, didn't he? A total World War, leading to European chaos and a Second World War, which lead to Worldwide financial meltdown over the following decades, which carries on descending even now, plus global climatic meltdown, and more.....

And he said the end would start in 1914? Bloody amazing.

Don't hold your breath. Live every day to the full. And prepare.....

That's not what he meant by predicting the end, this is what he thought would happen:
1874 to 1914 was described as the greatest time of trouble in human history, with 1914 to be the conclusion of the Last Days. Armageddon would begin, resulting in the wholesale destruction of all government and religion. Russell and his followers were to be raised to heaven and Jesus Kingdom would then be established as paradise on earth.

"Now, in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226
The following quotes during the lead up to 1914 show there could be no doubt as to what followers of the Watchtower Society were to expect.

Armageddon ended

"… the battle of the great day of God Almighty … The date of the close of that "battle" is definitely marked in Scripture as October 1914. It is already in progress, its beginning dating from October, 1874." Zion's Watch Tower 1892 Jan 15 p.23

End of the "Time of Trouble"

"The seventh trumpet sounds from Aug. 1840, until "the time of trouble," or day of wrath is ended. Hence, it doubtless ends with the times of the Gentiles, and this forty years of conquest; and therefore, sounds until A. D. 1914; at the end of which, Babylon the great, will have fallen, and the "dragon" be bound: that is, the nations will be subdued, and "the prince of this world cast out."" Three Worlds and the Harvest of This World (Barbour & Russell, 1877) p.27

Religion Utterly Destroyed

"The seventh trumpet sounds from Aug. 1840, until "the time of trouble," or day of wrath is ended. Hence, it doubtless ends with the times of the Gentiles, and this forty years of conquest; and therefore, sounds until A. D. 1914; at the end of which, Babylon the great, will have fallen, and the "dragon" be bound: that is, the nations will be subdued, and "the prince of this world cast out."" Three Worlds and The Harvest of This World (1877) p.143
"A.D. 33, to A.D. 70 was 36 ½ years; and so from A.D. 1878 to the end of A.D. 1914 is 36 ½ years. And, with the end of A.D. 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as already shown in prophecy." Studies In the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come (1891) p.153
"October, 1914, will witness the full end of Babylon, "as a great millstone cast into the sea," utterly destroyed as a system." Watch Tower 1911 Jun 15 p.190
Harvest work complete

"HARVEST" is a term which gives a general idea as to what work should be expected to transpire between the dates 1874 and 1914." Studies In the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come p.135
"These, already examined, show that the close of 1874 marked the beginning, as the close of 1914 will mark the end, of this 40 years of harvest; while all the minutiae of the order and work of this harvest were portrayed in that of the Jewish age, its type." Studies In the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come pp.149-150

Governments overthrown

Studies In the Scriptures Series II - The Time Is at Hand (1889) pp.77, 78 claimed seven things would happen in 1914. Not one of these eventuated. The following statements are extracted from that list;

1. "the disintegration of the rule of imperfect men. at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, "Thy Kingdom come," will begin to assume control, and that it will then shortly be "set up," or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions."
2. He whose right it is thus to take the dominion will then be present as earth's new Ruler; and not only so, but it will also prove that he will be present for a considerable period before that date;
3. the last member of the divinely recognized Church of Christ, the "royal priesthood," "the body of Christ," will beglorified with the Head;
4. Jerusalem shall no longer be trodden down
5. Israel's blindness will begin to be turned away
6. the great "time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation," will reach its culmination in a world-wide reign of anarchy
7. It will prove that before that date God's Kingdom, organized in power, will be in the earth and then smite and crush the Gentile image (Dan. 2:34)-and fully consume the power of these kings."

"True, it is expecting great things to claim, as we do, that within the coming twenty-six years all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved . In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished at the end of A. D. 1914 . Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the "battle of the great day of God Almighty" (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's Word." Studies In the Scriptures Series II - The Time Is At Hand (1889) pp.99, 101
"we have seen that God has a set time for every feature of his plan, and that we are even now in this "Day of Vengeance," which is a period of forty years; that it began in October, 1874, and will end in October, 1914 [very shortly]." Studies In the Scriptures Series IV - The Day of Vengeance -pp.546, 547
Jesus to start ruling the earth

SETTING UP THE EARTHLY GOVERNMENT ---- Not until the full end of Gentile Times (October, A.D. 1914) should we expect the earthly phase of God's Kingdom; for in giving a lease of dominion to the Gentiles until that date God made no mistake and his plans alter not. The earthly phase of the Kingdom of God when set up will be Israelitish; for such is God's engagement or covenant with Abraham and his natural seed. Even the chief favor, the spiritual Kingdom, was offered first to fleshly Israel, and would have been given to them if they had been ready at heart to receive it on the conditions attached to it-to suffer with Christ and afterward to be glorified with him." Studies In the Scriptures Series IV - The Day of Vengeance pp.624,625
Earthly Resurrection to occur

"And yet "Jerusalem must be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled;" hence, trodden down until A. D. 1914, when the day of wrath will be passed, and the resurrection and return of the "whole house of Israel" due." Three Worlds and The Harvest of This World (1877) p.166
"The beginning of the earthly phase of the Kingdom in the end of A.D. 1914 will, we understand, consist wholly of the resurrected holy ones of olden time-from John the Baptizer back to Abel-"Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all the holy prophets." Studies In the Scriptures Series IV - The Day of Vengeance p.625
144,000 All Resurrected to Heaven

1908 edition Thy kingdom come page 228
The 144,000, also known as the "body of Christ" or "the saints", were to all be in heaven by 1914, prior to the completion of Armageddon.

"That the deliverance of the saints must take place some time before 1914 is manifest, since the deliverance of fleshly Israel, as we shall see, is appointed to take place at that time... Just how long before 1914 the last living members of the body of Christ will be glorified, was are not directly informed;..." Studies In the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come (1908 ed.) p.228

1914 - Failed Watchtower prophecy - Falsified History

 

[JayJayDee]

Are you kidding me?

If you are "in the truth" then it would not be possible to post what you just did.

I am...and I just did.

That was not exactly a response to the post....

Concerning the word rendered "obey" in Heb 13:17 which you keep telling us is not "obey" at all; please do a search in Bible Gateway and tell me how many translations render the word in Heb 13:17 as anything but OBEY?

I couldn't find one that rendered that verse any differently. It just says "obey" those who take the lead.

Smoke screening are we? :sarcastic

You believe all other religion is Babylon the Great, a liar and an enemy of God but you keep pointing to her to prove your translation is right.

We believe that the NWT is free of trinitarian bias...yes.

You believe the whole world lies under the power of Satan but you believe what they say. I think it is You who are feeding at two tables.

Now that's funny. Babylon the great did not produce the Bible...only translations of it. It is God's word...remember?

We do not believe that God would permit any literal Bible translation to change the message of the kingdom. It is not man's message, regardless of who produces the written 'copies' of it.

I studied the KJV with JW's over 40 years ago...I still heard the kingdom message loud and clear. I still refer to my KJV on occasion. It was a gift from my grandmother when I was 10 yeas old.

Those who wish to study the Bible with JW's can use any translation they like.
Just because bias is demonstrated in some translations, doesn't mean God will allow the truth to be lost.

The WTS occasionally uses renderings from other translations in their articles, not just from the NWT. So your assertions do not hold water I'm afraid.... :foot: