Will someone please talk to me?

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Yes. The two greatest commands. Love and thinking alike are not the same thing. They seem to put thinking alike first, love second.

If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

I think this my favourite verse, having faith and being really active in church are less in importance to God than having love. I see that the NT doesn't have to be as petty as some people make it out to be.

 

[savagewind]

It has occured to me that the same mind tenet is mentioned only in the first letter to the Corinthians and Corinth is not mentioned in Revelation as being one of the Seven. But they have adopted the one mind precept, and have applied it to the whole of humankind.

 

[savagewind]

If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

I think this my favourite verse, having faith and being really active in church are less in importance to God than having love. I see that the NT doesn't have to be as petty as some people make it out to be.

Yes. I agree.

It is not a difficult thing to convince the self that what the self feels for others is love, even if it isn't. They are taught the greatest show of love in our day is to spread the Kingdom message.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Yes. I agree.

It is not a difficult thing to convince the self that what the self feels for others is love, even if it isn't. They are taught the greatest show of love in our day is to spread the Kingdom message.

ah but that doesn't matter unless you have genuine love for people, sticking to an organisation and only giving charity to the organisation and only working for the organisation is not genuine love for other living beings in my opinion. And saying "well there is not point in helping with other charitable projects because Armageddon is going to come and this world is only temporary." Is not having genuine love, that is only having faith, faith is less in importance than love, suffering should move you to help others beyond just given them a watchtower and telling them about the last days.

 

[savagewind]

ah but that doesn't matter unless you have genuine love for people, sticking to an organisation and only giving charity to the organisation and only working for the organisation is not genuine love for other living beings in my opinion. And saying "well there is not point in helping with other charitable projects because Armageddon is going to come and this world is only temporary." Is not having genuine love, that is only having faith, faith is less in importance than love, suffering should move you to help others beyond just given them a watchtower and telling them about the last days.

Of course you are right. They do other acts of charity though. They are there to help in disaster areas and they help others, not only their own. But most of their energy, time and resources goes to propagating the Watchtower view.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Of course you are right. They do other acts of charity though. They are there to help in disaster areas and they help others, not only their own. But most of their energy, time and resources goes to propagating the Watchtower view.

I know that, If they were asked to help other charitable projects a lot would not because they only believe in giving to the organisation and "because it's the last days so there is no point" I know because they have said it to me, that is not love in my opinion, using the last days as an excuse to not do anything is not love.

 

[savagewind]

I know that, If they were asked to help other charitable projects a lot would not because they only believe in giving to the organisation and "because it's the last days so there is no point" I know because they have said it to me, that is not love in my opinion, using the last days as an excuse to not do anything is not love.

They use the last days as an excuse for EVERYTHING, good and so called bad too.

Their excuse for ignoring the command at Psalm 146:3 Do not put your trust in nobles, in human beings, who cannot save is the last days.

 

[JayJayDee]

Ok, I was looking about the net for information on the fall of Jerusalem and apparently it never happened in 607 BC, which would make 1914 the wrong date all together.

As Jesus showed in his prophecy pointing to the conclusion of the system of things, Jerusalem would be “trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations” were fulfilled. (Luke 21:24) “Jerusalem” represented the Kingdom of God because its kings were said to sit on “the throne of the kingship of Jehovah.” (1 Chron. 28:4, 5; Matt. 5:34, 35) So, the Gentile governments, represented by wild beasts, would ‘trample’ on the right of God’s Kingdom to direct human affairs and would themselves hold sway under Satan’s control.—Compare Luke 4:5, 6.

For how long would such governments be permitted to exercise this control before Jehovah gave the Kingdom to Jesus Christ? Daniel 4:16 says “seven times” (“seven years,” AT and Mo, also JB footnote on verse 13). The Bible shows that in calculating prophetic time, a day is counted as a year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34) How many “days,” then, are involved? Revelation 11:2, 3 clearly states that 42 months (3 1/2 years) in that prophecy are counted as 1,260 days. Seven years would be twice that, or 2,520 days. Applying the “day for a year” rule would result in 2,520 years.

When did the counting of the “seven times” begin? After Zedekiah, the last king in the typical Kingdom of God, was removed from the throne in Jerusalem by the Babylonians. (Ezek. 21:25-27) Finally, by early October of 607 B.C.E. the last vestige of Jewish sovereignty was gone. By that time the Jewish governor, Gedaliah, who had been left in charge by the Babylonians, had been assassinated, and the remaining Jews had fled to Egypt. (Jeremiah, chapters 40-43) Reliable Bible chronology indicates that this took place 70 years before 537 B.C.E., the year in which the Jews returned from captivity; that is, it took place by early October of 607 B.C.E. (Jer. 29:10; Dan. 9:2) (Excerpts Reasoning from the Scriptures WTS)

This is how 1914 is calculated...

 

[JayJayDee]

ah but that doesn't matter unless you have genuine love for people, sticking to an organisation and only giving charity to the organisation and only working for the organisation is not genuine love for other living beings in my opinion.

We do not give to charity via organizations that skim off the cream to feed the fat cats at the top. We are at ground level. We call at people's homes and if they have a need that we can fill, we will do our best to care for it. We do not blow a trumpet about these things, so they mostly go unnoticed and unreported.

Love for God and man is about offering them the good news. Jesus commanded it...he didn't command soup kitchens to feed those who are poor, but said we should help where we encounter those who are in genuine need. When preaching to the crowds on one occasion, Jesus waited 3 days before he offered them food. The spiritual nourishment was first in importance to material needs. The people demonstrated their desire for the spiritual food and were blessed accordingly.

If people are just standing there with their hand out and there is no real desire to help themselves, we do not waste time propping up their lifestyle by putting food in their mouths whilst they waste money injecting drugs into their veins or pouring copious quantities of alcohol down their throats and then crying poor. That is not charity...that is aiding and abetting hopelessness. We would rather give people a solid hope for the future and give then something to live for. Many have ended their cycle of hopelessness and are now helping others on the road to life.

You seem to have so many things skewed. Where do you get your information?

And saying "well there is not point in helping with other charitable projects because Armageddon is going to come and this world is only temporary." Is not having genuine love, that is only having faith, faith is less in importance than love, suffering should move you to help others beyond just given them a watchtower and telling them about the last days.

Love is manifested in many ways, especially when disasters strike.

Do you believe Paul's words are hollow then?

"Really, then, as long as we have time favorable for it, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to [us] in the faith." (Gal 6:10)

This is what we do. You will not find a more loving brotherhood on earth who all believe the same things and who will sacrifice much for their brothers. Whenever disasters strike, JW's are usually first on the scene, with aid for their brothers. We are proud to say "we take care of our own". If all other churches did that, only the unbelievers would be in need of help.
When we have helped our brothers to rebuild or recover after a disaster, then we will look for others who need assistance. They are most appreciative and many have changed their minds about JW's because of experiencing first hand what we are really like, not how we are painted by opposers who have their noses out of joint, usually because they have been disciplined over something.

 

[savagewind]

1914 is calculated from the prefall of it, not the real fall of it. Is that right?

 

[savagewind]

If people are just standing there with their hand out and there is no real desire to help themselves, we do not waste time propping up their lifestyle by putting food in their mouths whilst they waste money injecting drugs into their veins or pouring copious quantities of alcohol down their throats and then crying poor. That is not charity...that is aiding and abetting hopelessness.

It is not possible to know what the begger will do with your dollar. You are judging and it is bigotry.

I agree with your premise though about not aiding hopelessless. But if Jesus can communicated complicated theocratic devises to your heads then Jesus can also distinguish between a real needy person and someone who is scamming. Yes or no?

Your reason for refusing to give to beggers has a lot of holes. You are judging the lot of poor people by the few bad ones. Hm. Where did you learn that, I wonder?

Hm might be sarcasm. The rest is true. And I don't wonder where she learned it. I wonder that Jesus chose the hardest hearts I'v ever seen to lead The Earth into it's era of peace and understanding.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

As Jesus showed in his prophecy pointing to the conclusion of the system of things, Jerusalem would be “trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations” were fulfilled. (Luke 21:24) “Jerusalem” represented the Kingdom of God because its kings were said to sit on “the throne of the kingship of Jehovah.” (1 Chron. 28:4, 5; Matt. 5:34, 35) So, the Gentile governments, represented by wild beasts, would ‘trample’ on the right of God’s Kingdom to direct human affairs and would themselves hold sway under Satan’s control.—Compare Luke 4:5, 6.

For how long would such governments be permitted to exercise this control before Jehovah gave the Kingdom to Jesus Christ? Daniel 4:16 says “seven times” (“seven years,” AT and Mo, also JB footnote on verse 13). The Bible shows that in calculating prophetic time, a day is counted as a year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34) How many “days,” then, are involved? Revelation 11:2, 3 clearly states that 42 months (3 1/2 years) in that prophecy are counted as 1,260 days. Seven years would be twice that, or 2,520 days. Applying the “day for a year” rule would result in 2,520 years.

When did the counting of the “seven times” begin? After Zedekiah, the last king in the typical Kingdom of God, was removed from the throne in Jerusalem by the Babylonians. (Ezek. 21:25-27) Finally, by early October of 607 B.C.E. the last vestige of Jewish sovereignty was gone. By that time the Jewish governor, Gedaliah, who had been left in charge by the Babylonians, had been assassinated, and the remaining Jews had fled to Egypt. (Jeremiah, chapters 40-43) Reliable Bible chronology indicates that this took place 70 years before 537 B.C.E., the year in which the Jews returned from captivity; that is, it took place by early October of 607 B.C.E. (Jer. 29:10; Dan. 9:2) (Excerpts Reasoning from the Scriptures WTS)

This is how 1914 is calculated...

I know how it is calculated, I'm asking why can't I find 607 Bce anywhere else,
is biblical chronology really that accurate?

 

[savagewind]

They are calculating the fall by the governenors, not by the Temple service. They are trying to have it both ways. Abraham is for God's Heavenly Rule represented by the Levites, not by Israel's governors. Are they calculating the fall from when the last human governor was removed? Should it be rightly calculated from the time of God's rule's end?

 

[savagewind]

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."Matthew 19:21

Love for God and man is about offering them the good news.

we do not waste time propping up their lifestyle by putting food in their mouths whilst they waste money injecting drugs into their veins or pouring copious quantities of alcohol down their throats and then crying poor.

Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.John 7:24

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.2 John 1:10,11

It doesn't surprise people on the outside that like minded people gather with the Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[savagewind]

As an aside about what the meaning of Matthew 19:21 is. Jesus is not saying the only way to follow him is by getting rid of all a person's possessions. Taken to the heart it will prevent the kind of teachings that the JWs teach which is to do good to fellow citizens of Earth means to preach the good news to them. It is not what Jesus said at Matthew 10:21. I thought stop safe was a word (it isn't) but that is what it is. Matthew 19:21 is a stop safe.

A stop safe is an ideal that will prevent a person from venturing down a wrong road of understanding.

 

[savagewind]

Truth be told the preaching of the good news according to JWs' understanding is not showing love at all. To reject their message according to them is to reject God's Sovereignty, and most people do reject their message.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

We do not give to charity via organizations that skim off the cream to feed the fat cats at the top. We are at ground level. We call at people's homes and if they have a need that we can fill, we will do our best to care for it. We do not blow a trumpet about these things, so they mostly go unnoticed and unreported.

Love for God and man is about offering them the good news. Jesus commanded it...he didn't command soup kitchens to feed those who are poor, but said we should help where we encounter those who are in genuine need. When preaching to the crowds on one occasion, Jesus waited 3 days before he offered them food. The spiritual nourishment was first in importance to material needs. The people demonstrated their desire for the spiritual food and were blessed accordingly.

If people are just standing there with their hand out and there is no real desire to help themselves, we do not waste time propping up their lifestyle by putting food in their mouths whilst they waste money injecting drugs into their veins or pouring copious quantities of alcohol down their throats and then crying poor. That is not charity...that is aiding and abetting hopelessness. We would rather give people a solid hope for the future and give then something to live for. Many have ended their cycle of hopelessness and are now helping others on the road to life.

Registered charities financial in goings and outgoings are monitored by third parties, most charities spend 70% to 90% of their donations directly on their projects.

I know JW do a lot of good things for each other and people who study with them. They do that as part of their loyalty to the organisation. I'm aware they also help doing natural disasters. My point is that not helping people because its the last days so there's no point unless they are studying with you is not having love in my opinion. Suffering should be enough to move someone if they have love, believing in the last days is having faith not love.

Also I'm not trying to say you should just give money to random strangers either, charities don't feed people drugs problems.

You seem to have so many things skewed. Where do you get your information?

Love is manifested in many ways, especially when disasters strike.

Do you believe Paul's words are hollow then?

"Really, then, as long as we have time favorable for it, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to [us] in the faith." (Gal 6:10)

This is what we do. You will not find a more loving brotherhood on earth who all believe the same things and who will sacrifice much for their brothers. Whenever disasters strike, JW's are usually first on the scene, with aid for their brothers. We are proud to say "we take care of our own". If all other churches did that, only the unbelievers would be in need of help.
When we have helped our brothers to rebuild or recover after a disaster, then we will look for others who need assistance. They are most appreciative and many have changed their minds about JW's because of experiencing first hand what we are really like, not how we are painted by opposers who have their noses out of joint, usually because they have been disciplined over something.

I'm sure there are plenty of other churches who are like this

 

[savagewind]

I hear you Horrorble. Is what you are saying the love the Jehovah's Witnesses show is more about obedience than it is about true love?

It is a no wonder the JWs are first on the scene in a disaster (I don't know how true this is, there is no reason for not believing it). All the help is volunteer. The volunteers take the time they have allotted for the preaching work and use it instead for the recovery work. Most organizations are not set up like they are. They are taught to be constantly on the ready and some really are.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I hear you Horrorble. Is what you are saying the love the Jehovah's Witnesses show is more about obedience than it is about true love?

It is a no wonder the JWs are first on the scene in a disaster (I don't know how true this is, there is no reason for not believing it). All the help is volunteer. The volunteers take the time they have allotted for the preaching work and use it instead for the recovery work. Most organizations are not set up like they are. They are taught to be constantly on the ready and some really are.

What I mean is the love is very conditional, and comes with the expectation of moving up the org, if it's a study or a JW than they will recieve a lot of love.

 

[savagewind]

What I mean is the love is very conditional, and comes with the expectation of moving up the org, if it's a study or a JW than they will recieve a lot of love.

Yes. Love bombing. Haha Other evangelizing religions do it too. The love stops when the lover sees she is not getting anywhere with the love object.