Will someone please talk to me?

[JayJayDee]

How does one come to know who their "own poor" are?

Isn't that what being part of a family is all about? We know who needs help because we care enough to ask. If the word is out that one of our brothers needs help...it is there without hesitation, regardless of what the need is.

We offer assistance without making our brother or sister feel demeaned.
They will probably return the favor one day if they are able, but it is not an expectation.
We don't give to get anything in return. We love our brothers as they love us.
I would not be anywhere else but in this family.

 

[JayJayDee]

Yes, your right. The message of Yehoshua was.

Love God.
Love your neighbor as yourself
Do good to those who persecute you.
Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment
But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.
Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them.

JWs just like most "christians" ignore these teachings.

If you can make a statement like that, it is patently obvious that you know nothing about Jehovah's Witnesses.

Let's take a closer look at those scriptures.....

"Love God.
Love your neighbor as yourself"

These are the only two commands that a Christian is under obligation to keep. You have to love God more than you love yourself to obey all of his commands, which are summed up in the law of love. Love of God means that you do not put your own will before God's in anything. You will uphold God's laws on marriage and divorce, even though you may not wish to. You will abide by his rules even to your own detriment.
That is what the love of God means. Loving our neighbor means treating them as you would like to be treated.

Jesus told us to preach the good news "in all the inhabited earth". What are Jehovah's Witnesses known for throughout the world? Everyone knows who we are and that we preach, just like the apostles did. (Acts 5:42, 20:20) It wasn't an option for Christians...it was a command. (Matt 28:19, 20)

"Do good to those who persecute you."

Do you know how many JW's lost their lives in the Nazi concentration camps? Do you know how many are imprisoned right now because they will not participate in their nation's military forces? None of them are anything but model prisoners.

Persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses and their respectful stand in the face of torture and execution are attested to in the Holocaust Museum in NYC.

"Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment
But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also....."

JW's are known for their conscientious objection to war and bloodshed in every nation.
They are not easily provoked and rely on God to take vengeance on their persecutors. They will not retaliate or return evil for evil. (Rom 12:17-21)

"Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.
Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them."

No one lives up to that admonition like JW's do.

Christendom will send their people to war and justify hating an enemy enough to kill him, but not JW's. We will not resist arrest, nor will we use violence to defend ourselves if authorities take us into custody. The first Christians are our models.

Your sweeping statement might apply to Christendom, but it doesn't hold water with regard to Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[savagewind]

Giving to the poor meant giving to your own poor. Jesus never advocated giving to the poor among the nations

This is blantantly against everything that Jesus taught. Instead of admititng that fact you hide behind many words.

Did you never hear "you think you will get a hearing by your many words"?

You have taken it upon yourself to find people for Jesus. Is this not correct? At first they won't look like they are for Jesus, will they? Are they only "your kind" after they look like you?

Nobody said Jehovah's Wintnesses are wrong for not building soup kitchens. You said that.

You said Jehovah's Wintesses won't give handouts for people to get drunk with.

You said Jesus said to give to your own.

Of course one should do good to his or her own family first. That is not the same thing as doing good only to one's family.

Thank you for talking to me but I am blasted away by what you say.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

It's the governments job to look after JW too, they too benefit from worldly people's taxes and worldly people who have fought for religious freedom.

I don't know how we got from being charitable, to helping anyone who is not willing to work. Most people are willing to work. Do you think poverty, natural disasters and war exist because people are not willing to work? You must not know how charitable organisations work to help people out of poverty.
If you went on holiday and was caught up in a natural disaster and the Red Cross offered to help you, you would not accept the help of a worldly person?

I think what the Good Samaritan story illustrates is how far that person went to help their neighbour, they bandaged him, put him on their donkey so they had to walk a long way, and paid for their keep until they got well again.

Jews helping the poor find work, is a good thing, being able to look after yourself and your family gives you dignity and pride and self respect, what do think charitable organisations do?

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Peace is also a way to resist, you don't have to be violent to resist, I respect the JW who resisted the nazis, it takes great courage not to comply.
I didn't respect what a JW once said to me though that in the concentration camps JW shared food with each other but the Jews didn't share food with each other.

 

[savagewind]

It is not the people's job to relieve suffering. It is the governments job (even though they are likened to BEASTS in the Bible). It is the people's job to tell everyone that God will relieve all suffering when God is ready to do it.

That is the good news that Jehovah's Witnesses give their life for.

They believe the WAY God will do it is by getting rid of all other government.

(Not sarcasm)

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

You said unbelievers won't benefit from Christ' sacrifice, what do think God will do with unbelievers? Also what is a believer? One who believes in Christ or one who is a JW?

 

[savagewind]

You said unbelievers won't benefit from Christ' sacrifice, what do think God will do with unbelievers? Also what is a believer? One who believes in Christ or one who is a JW?

You are talking to Jay.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not "think" what God will to with unbelievers. They "know" God will destroy them when the Earth gets reaped.

They will never admit a believer who is saved is only a Jehovah's Witness but that is what they are taught and they teach it.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

You are talking to Jay.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not "think" what God will to with unbelievers. They "know" God will destroy them when the Earth gets reaped.

They will never admit a believer who is saved is only a Jehovah's Witness but that is what they are taught and they teach it.

Oh yes I remember the pictures. So everyone who is not baptised will die at Armageddon?

 

[savagewind]

Oh yes I remember the pictures. So everyone who is not baptised will die at Armageddon?

No! They do not believe that. But it is not something you can argue with them. Your argument is with God.

Genesis 18:20-33

It is like they want to believe that only Jehovah's Witnesses are saved but they know God is The Judge.

So yes, they believe two opposing things. They believe God will save only Jehovah's Witnesses but they admit they don't know.

 

[savagewind]

Everything the leaders of the Jehovah's Witnesses teach them to think do and say is to prove they will be the only ones saved but they do not believe they will be the only ones saved. I do not know what their leaders believe.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Everything the leaders of the Jehovah's Witnesses teach them to think do and say is to prove they will be the only ones saved but they do not believe they will be the only ones saved. I do not know what their leaders believe.

So you do not need to believe in Christ to be saved?

 

[savagewind]

So you do not need to believe in Christ to be saved?

They do not believe that Christ isn't their savior. They believe Christ appointed their leaders to teach them about Christ's salvation. The faithful and discreet slave was appointed as their intermediary by Jesus Christ. That is their tenet. It isn't mine.

See my signature? I think they do not believe the spirit of Christ dwells in a person. I do.

 

[JayJayDee]

They do not believe that Christ isn't their savior. They believe Christ appointed their leaders to teach them about Christ's salvation. The faithful and discreet slave was appointed as their intermediary by Jesus Christ. That is their tenet. It isn't mine.

See my signature? I think they do not believe the spirit of Christ dwells in a person.

We are guided by scripture....and only scripture. The twisted garbage that is being spouted here just makes me shake my head.

If Christ said that he would appoint "a faithful and discreet slave" to "feed" his fellow slaves their "food at the proper time" then we are to look for that slave and allow him to provide our spiritual sustenance. That is from Jesus, not men. (Matt 24:45)
When he asked, "who really is the faithful and discreet slave?" Jesus was indicating that the situation we have today, with so many claiming to represent Christ, would make the slave's identity difficult to discern. It was he who foretold the appearance of the weeds. (Matt 13:36-43)

In the first century, it was not difficult to see God's backing on the Christian arrangement. Christ manifested the power of God's spirit and later his apostles also manifested the 'gifts' and passed on them on to others. This was not enough for the majority of the Jewish people however, because as a nation they did not believe, and rejected him on the say so of their religious leaders.

Daniel foretold a cleansing and refining of Gods people in "the time of the end" (Dan 12:9, 10) We believe that this cleansing is the foretold separating of the wheat from the weeds. The weeds are the "wicked" who would not be granted understanding of anything.
The 'weeds' are bundled and made ready for the fire of destruction. Again, Jesus' words, not man's. (Matt 25:41, 46) This is taking place right now.

'No one can come to the son without an invitation from the Father'. (John 6:44)
That means that only 'sheep' get an invitation. Only sheep will stay faithful to Christ's teachings....the weeds make up their own ideas and follow what 'they' think, not what the Bible says.

Those who do not wish to know the truth but who are happy to swallow the lies of opposers will be permitted to follow their own delusion, right to the end...why? Because Paul said they prefer it that way. (2 Thess 2:8-12)

We don't have to convince anyone of anything. Jesus knew that God does that by means of his spirit. Sheep hear the voice of the shepherd, but the goats follow a different voice. It's that simple.

If what we say does not ring true for anyone, they are free to ignore the message. That has nothing to do with us. We just take the message to the people and God decides who is a sheep and who is not.

We don't have to prop up a dying system by engaging in politics or warfare, all we were commanded to do was 'preach the good news of the kingdom' and show Christian kindness to one another and to whomever we met who was in need, and we could reasonably provide assistance.

We do all of that and nothing you say will change that. Twisting the truth does not negate it.

"Jehovah knows those who belong to him."

 

[savagewind]

If Christ said that he would appoint "a faithful and discreet slave" to "feed" his fellow slaves their "food at the proper time" then we are to look for that slave

There is one applicable scripture. Just one. It is not about "Jesus appoints a slave", it is a question "who really is?". You do not even know if it refers to Jesus or to someone else. Why is the Master not Jehovah?

 

[JayJayDee]

There is one applicable scripture. Just one. It is not about "Jesus appoints a slave", it is a question "who really is?". You do not even know if it refers to Jesus or to someone else. Why is the Master not Jehovah?

There are just two tables from which humans take in 'spiritual' food. (1 Cor 10:20, 21)

We have chosen out table. You are free to choose yours.

It is clear that we do not feed from the same table.

 

[savagewind]

There are just two tables from which humans take in 'spiritual' food. (1 Cor 10:20, 21)

We have chosen out table. You are free to choose yours.

It is clear that we do not feed from the same table.

Yes, it is clear.

 

[savagewind]

It occured to me while looking up the word listen in the research Bible that nowhere are we commanded to listen to anyone but God's Spirit. But you keep insisting that to listen to your slave is how we are suppose to listen to what God is telling. Why is the command to listen to the slave missing from the scriptures?

You have two scriptures that you say prove it. I already proved the word you say is OBEY is not obey but is be persuaded. But you won't "listen". To listen is repeated maybe a hundred times. To obey is hard to find a few examples.

Only two scriptures point to your belief God has appointed believers governors to obey. One is called the faithful discreet slave. The other is the old testament example of Moses. Can you honesty call the men discreet who compare themselves to Moses? Have you ever looked up the meaning of the word discreet?

 

[savagewind]

You say God has apointed the faithful and discreet slave to feed the household of God. Why would God assign a feeder leader? Don't you remember when Jesus disciplined the crowds for following him for the food he had provided? Why would God make dependence on food our salvation?

 

[savagewind]

How do Jehovah's Witnesses reconcile all the commands to listen to the spirit with their belief that they must listen only to the faithful discreet slave? Listening only to the faithful discreet slave they call eating at the lord's table. 1 Corinthians 10:21 ...You cannot eat at the Lord's Table and at the table of demons, too.

If eating at the Lord's Table means listening to the faithful and discreet slave, the governing body, what table are they eating at?