Will someone please talk to me?

[savagewind]

By the way. Please. Where are the birds?

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Is it true that they changed the vow of baptism?

 

[savagewind]

The questions at the time of baptism, from Freeminds:

In line with these sentiments, in 1985 the Society changed the baptismal vows such that new Jehovah's Witnesses committed themselves not only to God, but to the Watchtower Society. This is evident from the baptismal vows published over the years. The baptismal questions from the Aug. 1, 1966 Watchtower (p. 465) were:

(1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?

(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

The May 15, 1970 (p. 309) and May 1, 1973 (p. 280) issues printed slightly revised vows. The newest baptismal questions were set forth in the June 1, 1985 (p. 30) Watchtower:

(1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

(2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum for Jehovahs Witnesses

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/...-the-baptismal-vows-then-and-now#.UlLfI1CURhd


Yes. It is changed. Whenever I would go to convention I would try my hardest to be spiritually awake. That vow bothered me. When I was baptized (1991) it did not bother me too much. I thought it meant the others were now your family and I must promise always to treat them all as family. I do. But to some people it means to obey the governing body like a father. I don't.

 

[savagewind]

I have been accused of defaming the governing body. Not so! I disagree with them about a lot of things. They are part of the promise I made too. They are part of my family I promised to care for. I don't care for them less than anyone else. They care for me less. They have made a stern warning to the others to care for me less (if the news can be believed).

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/shu...hocking-district-convention-talk-hits-youtube

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Jehovah's Witness Discussion Forum for Jehovahs Witnesses

What are the baptismal vows, then and now? (1)


Yes. It is changed. Whenever I would go to convention I would try my hardest to be spiritually awake. That vow bothered me. When I was baptized (1991) it did not bother me too much. I thought it meant the others were now your family and I must promise always to treat them all as family. I do. But to some people it means to obey the governing body like a father. I don't.

It seems to me that they changed it from giving yourself to god and Christ to being dedicated to the organisation

 

[savagewind]

It seems to me that they changed it from giving yourself to god and Christ to being dedicated to the organisation

Yes. Forum posts of JWs prove it. But to be fair, it seems like they really believe Jesus Christ is happy when they are.

 

[savagewind]

I thought of an interesting twist to share. I think why not?

It is obvious to me Mathhew 24:45 describes the gladness the master knows because of the obedience of the servant he put in charge. That has morphed into the gladness the master feels because the others in the household are being fed.... like maybe there was a chance they wouldn't be.... ?? .....

That's what the lady keeps saying. Seems God's children will starve without a man in charge. (sarcasm but that's what I hear so it's not sarcasm - now I'm confused - thanks a lot for that headache)

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I thought of an interesting twist to share. I think why not?

It is obvious to me Mathhew 24:45 describes the gladness the master knows because of the obedience of the servant he put in charge. That has morphed into the gladness the master feels because the others in the household are being fed.... like maybe there was a chance they wouldn't be.... ?? .....

That's what the lady keeps saying. Seems God's children will starve without a man in charge. (sarcasm but that's what I hear so it's not sarcasm - now I'm confused - thanks a lot for that headache)

I read it as a warning, that if the head servant disobeys the master and neglects the rest of the servants the master is going to come down on him and kick his butt

 

[savagewind]

I read it as a warning, that if the head servant disobeys the master and neglects the rest of the servants the master is going to come down on him and kick his butt

Yes he will.

James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

1 Timothy 1:7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Hi, Savage

I just saw this thread on "Today's Posts". I'm in a hurry to take the Mrs. walking, so I could only briefly scan the posts. Can't make heads or tails of it all -- it seems you have plenty of people to talk to you.

You say you believe Yehoushua. That's wonderful, but it doesn't tell me much about you (In fact, I just now checked your bio and found out you're F). I have been classed as a "Non-Trinitarian Messianic" on another forum -- a label I'm content with, though I am not Jewish. One thing I definitely am NOT is Trinitarian. If you are, then I guess we don't have much to talk about. Otherwise, send me a PM and I'll discuss whatever you want. There is no place on RF, at the moment, for non-Trinitarian Messianics to discuss anything.

 

[JayJayDee]

I read it as a warning, that if the head servant disobeys the master and neglects the rest of the servants the master is going to come down on him and kick his butt

If you read the whole chapter of Matt 24, you will see that it is speaking about the return of Christ as the "master" (Lord) of the household.

After saying that no one would know 'the day or hour' of his return, he said.....

“43 “But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 On this account YOU too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming.”

Then he asks the question, also connected to His return....

“45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so! 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings."

The ones who are fed are in one household. They are feeding only their fellow slaves, not anyone outside that household. Nor are the slaves told to feed themselves or to feed outside this arrangement.

Those who were once part of the arrangement, but who get disillusioned because the master appears to be delaying, he says....

48 “But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.”

The household is Christ's family who all feed at the same table. They are not divided in beliefs and all are obeying Christ's directive to "preach the good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth" and to 'make disciples, baptising them'. Jesus said that "weeds" would be in the same field as the "wheat" so identifying Christ's true household is paramount.

I know of no other united Christian body who fulfills all that Christ commanded like JW's do.

To be baptized 'in the name of the Father, son and holy spirit' is not just a mindless ritual with meaningless words. It is the recognition of the roles played by each in the life of one dedicating themselves to Jehovah to do his will first in their lives. This is in accord with scripture that says we must be part of the only household that teaches the truth and whom God blesses with insight and understanding in this "time of the end". (Dan 12:9, 10)

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I still read it as a warning to those who think they can get away with taking advantage of the servants because they think Christ won't come in their life time.

 

[savagewind]

Those who were once part of the arrangement, but who get disillusioned because the master appears to be delaying, he says....

48 “But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.”

I do not know about these who believe Jesus is delaying. I know Jesus is not delaying. He is ruling and I am being taught by him, the great teacher. According to the teaching of the Jehovah's Witnesses it is Jesus Kingdom that is delayed. I consider myself a subject of God's Kingdom.

They are feeding only their fellow slaves, not anyone outside that household. Nor are the slaves told to feed themselves or to feed outside this arrangement.

I am a grown woman. I choose to feed myself. JayJay, you say everything I need to know is in the bible. Then you say I can't know it, I must be fed it. No thank you. Grow up!

 

[savagewind]

Hi, Savage

I just saw this thread on "Today's Posts". I'm in a hurry to take the Mrs. walking, so I could only briefly scan the posts.

Does the Mrs. post on Religious Forums?

Can't make heads or tails of it all

There is no subject. Anything will do.

it seems you have plenty of people to talk to you.

Well, there's me. Most of the time I am plenty. There are the Jehovah's Witnesses on line but I already know what they know. I don't believe it is all true, they do. There is Horrorble! Hi! There might have been others, but not for awhile.

You say you believe Yehoushua. That's wonderful, but it doesn't tell me much about you (In fact, I just now checked your bio and found out you're F). I have been classed as a "Non-Trinitarian Messianic" on another forum -- a label I'm content with, though I am not Jewish. One thing I definitely am NOT is Trinitarian. If you are, then I guess we don't have much to talk about. Otherwise, send me a PM and I'll discuss whatever you want. There is no place on RF, at the moment, for non-Trinitarian Messianics to discuss anything

I am non-trinitarian. Messianic? I do not know what it means. If it means Yehoshua called Jesus is the Messiah, I believe it. If it means sometime in the future Jesus will take on the role of Messiah and rule for a literal 1000 years, I do not believe it.

I have no religion, in other words I can be persuaded otherwise. That means I do not insist I am right about anything. Do you?

Oh! There is one thing I insist on so far. I cannot be persuaded the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses should be trusted. I believe the Psalm that says Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save. (Psalm 146:3)

Yehoshua was a human and I trust him enough. I trust YHVH like Jesus does.

 

[savagewind]

I am not Jewish. But I don't know that for sure. I know my mother and her mother were not Jewish. Before that, I do not know. So far I have decided not to convert to any religion.

 

[Curious George]

Does the Mrs. post on Religious Forums?

There is no subject. Anything will do.

Well, there's me. Most of the time I am plenty. There are the Jehovah's Witnesses on line but I already know what they know. I don't believe it is all true, they do. There is Horrorble! Hi! There might have been others, but not for awhile.

We're still here....Bidding our time.... Waiting to stun you with our cunning wit.

Well I am at least reading every time this thread appears bold in "my replies"

 

[savagewind]

We're still here....Bidding our time.... Waiting to stun you with our cunning wit.

Well I am at least reading every time this thread appears bold in "my replies"

I am sorry I forgot you George. I am forgetful. That is one thing I am sure of!

 

[savagewind]

When I was a Jehovah's Witness and some of the friends would talk about the terrible time ahead for us. We might be arrested and tortured for names and I'd be like I don't remember. Really, I don't. When the memory of a person pops in my head it is their face I remember. I keep forgetting to attach their name to their face so I forget it. And then under duress I would never remember. Sort of a protection I think. But I don't think that's going to happen.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

When I was a Jehovah's Witness and some of the friends would talk about the terrible time ahead for us. We might be arrested and tortured for names and I'd be like I don't remember. Really, I don't. When the memory of a person pops in my head it is their face I remember. I keep forgetting to attach their name to their face so I forget it. And then under duress I would never remember. Sort of a protection I think. But I don't think that's going to happen.

Oh dear paranoia much?

 

[Curious George]

I am sorry I forgot you George. I am forgetful. That is one thing I am sure of!

Not forgetful, just have more important things on your mind. :yes: