Witches and witchcraft

[UpperLimits]

I have, actually. Now do you have an actual reply or just ad hominems?

Did you actually have an argument to put forth?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Did you actually have an argument to put forth?

I already have, and you haven't addressed it.

 

[Muffled]

no,witchcraft is not through demonic powers for real witches that use it for good,however there are some individuals who proclaim to be witches who do use witchcraft for evil,or wrong doings,we have no part in that circle do not associate ourselves with those individuals.A true witches way is to help for the greatest good and harm none,if we do it will come back 3 fold!!
anyone who uses demonic powers is called a satanist and they consider "Satan" as there head.Most witches don't even believe in "Satan",that is a creation entity that Christians acknowledge,not witches,we believe that evil and negative spirits do exist,and we try to protect ourselves from such.
Lots of people prejudge us by hear-say they don't research for themselves!! or find out what is true.we love all life forms and we are earth people who cherishes nature and it's beauty. Spells are nothing more then prayers maybe using different tactics to accomplish the spells,we may operate in a different manner and believe certain things that the average Christian doesn't. Witch is just a name for a human being who believes that they have abilities and powers to make what Christians call "miracles", we call them manifestations,we believe we can more energy for what is desired to be.Some worship Gods and Goddesses and some worship a Creator Christians call "God"not all witches are the same,there's a lot of different kinds,such as Garden witches,Celtic witches,Wicca witches,Wicca shamanism green witches,Hereditary witches,Greece-roman witches,Cabot witches,Christian witches,Dianic witches, Alexandrian witches,Eclectic witches,Solitary witches and a few more. We don't have a Manuel such a "the bible" but there are books we read and learn that are written by other Wicca,witches & etc. we don't have to deal with dogma of religions or denominations. Many witches such as myself follow "new age" practices and philosophies and spirituality.We are the same as any other human being;believe it or not.We aren't ugly old witches with warts that puts curses on people.I myself give my credit to the Creator of heaven and earth, for he is the one who equipped me with my abilities and psychic powers and guides me each day!!what we see is the human flesh our soul lives in,so we can identify each other while we are on earth,I personally believe everyone is psychic,most just don't believe so therefore they don't use it. Back in time they hid these abilities because of the belief that we were of the devil, so we hid our meetings and etc. not because we were a cult doing evil. Now, we are starting to come out and not be scared or ashamed of our beliefs, but some still keep it hush hush because of family,friends and co workers who still believe it is evil doing? maybe one day all people will accept us without judgement and hate or fear,maybe one day.anyway,I've said enough just wanted to shed some light on what witchcraft and witches truly is.We operate out of Love and Divine.

I believe whether one does good or evil the source depends on what is called upon. If one calls upon God then the source is God if one calls on anything else the source is the devil.

 

[Muffled]

Christians looking for an excuse to condemn witchcraft will quote the Bible Suffer not a witch to live, from Exodus 22:17. This passage has been translated many times. In the older versions of Exodus, the meaning was "Thou shall not suffer a sorceress to live."In this particular setting, a sorceress referred to a poisoner,a murderer.The original meaning was "suffer not a murderer to live"which eventually got confused with the word witch, causing misunderstandings to this day.

I believe that sounds like a revisionist view of the verse in order to justify a belief. In any case the law is no longer valid. God will deal with each case individually instead of communally.

 

[Muffled]

Someone brought this up a little while ago, it's clear from both other non-KJV translations and the original Hebrew, that it doesn't say "witch". And that witches themselves are a modern mythology (like Satanists), later being appropriated in the Neopagan revival starting late 19th century and transformed into various Neopagan movements/traditions last century.

One translation I read actually said "someone that has intercourse with animals should not have the right to live" (paraphrasing).

I believe that translation doesn't fit in with the understanding King Saul had of it.

 

[Zita]

I believe that sounds like a revisionist view of the verse in order to justify a belief. In any case the law is no longer valid. God will deal with each case individually instead of communally.

well you are wrong, go to the Hebrew old testiment and you will find out what it was before someone revised it. and what law are you referring to that is no longer valid. and I already know that God will deal with each individually (duh)

 

[Zita]

I believe whether one does good or evil the source depends on what is called upon. If one calls upon God then the source is God if one calls on anything else the source is the devil.

and this is true, yes there are some witches who call on something other then God and use their gifts for evil doing.which in reality is not a real witch cause like I said true witches do no harm to anyone and we believe in the "come back 3 fold law"

 

[Zita]

Jesus could well have been titled as a Sorcerer

In the gospels he has been called a carpenter(english) and a tecton (Greek) but since tecton could mean 'highly skilled' or 'wise' (the word technology comes from it) Jesus could have been a handworker in stone, bone, wood or even metal. But Jesus's special reputation was as a healer and worker of miracles!

The Eastern Aramaic word is 'Nagar' or 'Nagatta' and this is associated with 'crafting' in the Sorcerer sense.

A word related to Nagar is Nachash = Serpent as in 'hissing' an incantantion. Snake (serpent) in Indian is 'Naga', and 'Nagash' in Syrian (Babylon) and also 'Nachash in the Bible. All of these words are associated with Sorcery and Magic. I have read (from @Ingledsva) that one word in the bible shows Nachash as whispering or hissing an incantation.

Another word related to Nagar is 'Kharash'.

Obviously a person like Jesus who could do what Jesus did would be called a Sorcerer, as the words above were/are used.

OK?? ... crafting............ sorcerer ...... Kharash and tekton ... nagar ... nacash ... nagash ... magic.

And Healers were often associated with magic.

yes for awhile "magic" in Christianity was okay

 

[oldbadger]

yes for awhile "magic" in Christianity was okay

Fair enough.

And it can still be OK about Jesus the amazing healer.
I separated Jesus from Christianity a long time ago.

 

[Diamond]

Technically, they were not witches. The vast majority of the killed were only baselessly accused as such.

very correct, they were plain women ,then The church begin to create things to say was a witch and witchcraft. wise old women,women who healed people,women who used herbs for illnesses,women who were mid-wives,women who attracted men because of being beautiful,if a woman got a man excited,women who had moles and warts and birthmarks, among others.

 

[Diamond]

I can struggle if you are in front of humans. You will be futile in front of angels (or the fallen ones). The nature of witchcraft, whether you realize it or not, will have to rely on a connection to the spiritual realm to work. Sometimes this could mean that you are dealing with those much higher in power and intelligence but evil.

The rule is those in the spiritual realm (basically a place named Hades) are not allowed to contact humans actively. However humans can choose to contact them because humans are allowed to sin in many ways in this world. To the Jews (thus later Christians) trying to contact this realm is strictly prohibited by their dogmas.

ok, can you tell me were you got all this?

 

[UpperLimits]

I already have, and you haven't addressed it.

Where? All you did was wave you magic wand and expected everything to go away.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Where? All you did was wave you magic wand and expected everything to go away.

Witches and witchcraft

 

[Diamond]

I have just read through this thread, reading each of your comments and most of the responses.

I have been a Christian for about twenty-eight years, having been saved out of various religions, spiritual perspectives, and the new age. One of my dearest friends was a witch from a very young age before she knew Jesus as her Savior.

I think probably the main reason the Bible condemns witchcraft is because it is a practice or methodology which attempts to control or manipulate one's life and reality apart from God, the Creator, rather than under His loving guidance and will. The Bible informs us that there are only two sources of spiritual power: God and Satan (with Satan's being limited, yet still very powerful over humanity). I think the warning in the scriptures against witchcraft or any spirituality apart from God is for our best interest and well-being because God is the only Source of life and goodness. To seek spirituality, knowledge, or power apart from God is idolatry....For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry ( 1 Samuel 15:23). This is the mentality of Lucifer and his attitude toward God, so when one participates in this attitude they are putting themselves in a vulnerable place of being deceived, manipulated, and being dangerously led astray from God and His wisdom and words of eternal life.

Just my thoughts and response to your question. Have a good afternoon.

I was just reading over different threads and I came upon yours.I expect your views because you are a bible reader, I take no offence to your view, it's kinda typical of bible readers and Christians . I don't believe in the bible at all, because it is full of stories that was created by a writer, who had a lot of free time on his hands. Why would God have a problem with me or anyone else, who seeks spirituality because that would mean I was learning of his realm and becomes a better person because of my studies.Is he that controlling? that's not a good look for a just loving God !! I can assure you my gifts and powers are used for good,


Lucifer would never give me these things to do good with!! and help others. so obviously my gifts and powers came from The Creator, the real God.Cause I don't believe in the bible's version of God, I don't at all. Your God is Jealous, controlling,violent, selfish,angry, narrow minded,judgmental,and vengeful!!! according to your bible God sent a famine over the whole earth,oh yea can't forget he drowned a lot of people including children because of a few people who was sinning. that's very self centered and to say that your God is the only source of life and goodness is so funny!!!. yea, I do believe that The Creator that I believe in created me,but he is not the only source of Goodness. I have always said why is everything that allows you to get spiritual knowledge and access the spiritual realm to enhance my life and spiritual path considered a sin and of evil.

But, I see why now, I guess The Bible's God is scared I will be just as enlightened and knowledgeable and spiritual and powerful just like him.and our witchcraft does not manipulate any thing, and we surely don't control anyone, we harm none and can not cast spells to do so, It is against the witches creed, our witchcraft helps,heals and assist people who need guidance and inspiration. and enlightens there walk.

So just like so many Christians you don't know what we are all about and what witchcraft really does.and your view of being stubborn is a iniquity and idolatry!! well somebody needs to inform your God cause The God you serve according to that Storybook,is the most stubbornest entity I ever heard of, and he is very mean spirit, Sending plagues on people, creating a hell to put people that don't' follow his rules,and killed firstborns in Egypt to me that is not a very loving Spirit at all.oh and I can't leave out he designed a mass murder to happen.Also he is boastful he bragged about sending another plague upon the people that they will know that there is none like him in all the earth.(exodus 9:14) Whew I'm so glad I don't believe in the bible, cause that is a very mean spirit. Heck, with all the stuff your God did, that was just plain evil, witchcraft and witches are cotton candy and a walk in the park. And that's the God you serve!!! Wow.,

Just my thoughts!!! You have a good afternoon.

 

[Martin]

What does the bible and it's followers have against Witches and Witchcraft,I'm looking for real and real convincing reasons?

Christianity appropriated a lot of Pagan stuff, like festivals and holy sites. I imagine witches were seen as a convenient scapegoat for persecution.

 

[Diamond]

Convincing to whom ? You ?

Under the theocracy that was Israel under the law, witches were executed as being under the control of satan.

In the Christian dispensation, a believer is enjoined to avoid them and all their trappings for the same reason.

If you find the reason unconvincing, take it up with God, not me.

He makes the rules, and I just follow them.

Well good for you!! Just to let you know, witches do not even believe in the Christian entity Satan, we have absolutely no dealings with him. and just as I told someone one yesterday, Satan would not give us the gifts and powers we have because we operate out of love, our creed states, that we will harm no one, that Our practice is for enlightenment, spiritual connection, to help others the best we can, and to assist them in guidance on their spiritual path, also we aid the sick and heal thoses that we can, we also use witchcraft to seek the spiritual realm to learn more about spiritual issues to enhance our lives and others. so that being said, there is no way we are under the control of your Satan.,and I don't have to take it up with Your God of the bible, or The real Creator, because he is the one that has blessed us with our gifts and powers, My Creator(God) is fully aware of our operation of love., I do not believe in the bible version of God at all. Because I don't think a loving God would operate the way your God does..

 

[Diamond]

Christians killed tens of thousands of witches in Europe over a period of several hundred years.

Yes they did, and so many of them weren't even witches.But it was actually Christians who created the witch that was painted out to be of evil. They actually took the fact that the women who had these gifts were using them to heal people, and help others that called upon them.But because these women were so wise and used there gifts for good, they accused them of witchcraft and of operating under the power of satan, because they refused to believe that the women were accessing the divine spiritual realm, and they were mad because they were so much better than the churches doctors!!

and they found out that some of the christians of the church were sneaking to receive the aide of these witches. so the best way to get rid of them was to make up a theory of how evil they were and etc. They did not want these women to be receiving spiritual power and they couldn't. they made up some crazy things, that Christians today still believe the lies about witches and witchcraft.They got to the point that they were blaming these women for almost anything that went wrong, they said that if a pretty woman caused men to be attracted to her in a lustful way, that the blame was put on her as being a witch, if a man got aroused by looking and being around her, she too must be a witch, they even said that mid- wives were witches because they said the a woman giving birth was a disgusting thing so anyone who helped child birth was operating under the control of Satan. they also would strip the women down and if they had a mole, or freckles or a birthmark any were on their body, they said it to be a mark of the devil proving they were witches. I could go on for about a hour naming the craziest things and reasons why the were accused of being witches and practicing witchcraft.

Oh that's not even half of what we had to endure, just because we possess a gift they couldn't be understood, They started torturing these women for hours and if they didn't die doing the torturing , they would take them to the stake and burn them alive. They killed thousands of women doing what was called the witch hunting. They would kill large villages of women!!When they finally stopped so many kids and husbands were alone and grieving.The only difference between the Christians then and now is they aren't killing us. But they still accuse us of commenting a sin, and going against God and that we operate out of the devil and we use our powers to hurt and harm people.unless they do some researching and studying up on use , they do not have a clue about what we really stand for, and that we absolutely do not harm anyone, we take it very serious that if we use our gifts and powers for dark reasons, it will come back on us three fold. Maybe one day Christians will stop judging us off of a made up theory about witches and witchcraft. But if they don't its ok, I am going to be just as I am A witch and use witchcraft for good.

 

[SugarOcean]

I believe whether one does good or evil the source depends on what is called upon. If one calls upon God then the source is God if one calls on anything else the source is the devil.

Do you think the Devil is separate and apart from God?

 

[shmogie]

Well good for you!! Just to let you know, witches do not even believe in the Christian entity Satan, we have absolutely no dealings with him. and just as I told someone one yesterday, Satan would not give us the gifts and powers we have because we operate out of love, our creed states, that we will harm no one, that Our practice is for enlightenment, spiritual connection, to help others the best we can, and to assist them in guidance on their spiritual path, also we aid the sick and heal thoses that we can, we also use witchcraft to seek the spiritual realm to learn more about spiritual issues to enhance our lives and others. so that being said, there is no way we are under the control of your Satan.,and I don't have to take it up with Your God of the bible, or The real Creator, because he is the one that has blessed us with our gifts and powers, My Creator(God) is fully aware of our operation of love., I do not believe in the bible version of God at all. Because I don't think a loving God would operate the way your God does..

You sound like a Wiccan. As far as I am concerned, you aren´t the witches referred to in the Bible. You have a different religious belief, your right.

There is another kind of witch, and I know for a fact they exist. In college I went to a black mass conducted by a most beautiful satanic witch ( thatś why I went ! ). At the time I was an atheist and looked upon this as a lark.

I won´t go into detail, but there were prayers to satan, requests that he come among us. There was a ¨sermon¨ that was revolting. There were manifestations that I can only say were supernatural. I have tried for years to figure out what happened from a natural view, I cannot.

Frankly, it scared the hell out of me.

Anyway, those are the kind of witches that we must avoid at all costs

 

[shmogie]

Yes they did, and so many of them weren't even witches.But it was actually Christians who created the witch that was painted out to be of evil. They actually took the fact that the women who had these gifts were using them to heal people, and help others that called upon them.But because these women were so wise and used there gifts for good, they accused them of witchcraft and of operating under the power of satan, because they refused to believe that the women were accessing the divine spiritual realm, and they were mad because they were so much better than the churches doctors!!

and they found out that some of the christians of the church were sneaking to receive the aide of these witches. so the best way to get rid of them was to make up a theory of how evil they were and etc. They did not want these women to be receiving spiritual power and they couldn't. they made up some crazy things, that Christians today still believe the lies about witches and witchcraft.They got to the point that they were blaming these women for almost anything that went wrong, they said that if a pretty woman caused men to be attracted to her in a lustful way, that the blame was put on her as being a witch, if a man got aroused by looking and being around her, she too must be a witch, they even said that mid- wives were witches because they said the a woman giving birth was a disgusting thing so anyone who helped child birth was operating under the control of Satan. they also would strip the women down and if they had a mole, or freckles or a birthmark any were on their body, they said it to be a mark of the devil proving they were witches. I could go on for about a hour naming the craziest things and reasons why the were accused of being witches and practicing witchcraft.

Oh that's not even half of what we had to endure, just because we possess a gift they couldn't be understood, They started torturing these women for hours and if they didn't die doing the torturing , they would take them to the stake and burn them alive. They killed thousands of women doing what was called the witch hunting. They would kill large villages of women!!When they finally stopped so many kids and husbands were alone and grieving.The only difference between the Christians then and now is they aren't killing us. But they still accuse us of commenting a sin, and going against God and that we operate out of the devil and we use our powers to hurt and harm people.unless they do some researching and studying up on use , they do not have a clue about what we really stand for, and that we absolutely do not harm anyone, we take it very serious that if we use our gifts and powers for dark reasons, it will come back on us three fold. Maybe one day Christians will stop judging us off of a made up theory about witches and witchcraft. But if they don't its ok, I am going to be just as I am A witch and use witchcraft for good.

Christians in name only. God will judge them extremely harshly for these brutal crimes.