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With the Russian/Trump Connections in the Media (again)...
- Thread starter Quetzal
- Start date
I don't understand why Russians are still seen as enemies... they already have enough economic problems , to care what the US government does or doesn't. I mean, the Berlin wall fell in 1989....we are in the 21st century...
In other words: even if Trump is connected to Russians and Putin....what's the problem?
In other words: even if Trump is connected to Russians and Putin....what's the problem?
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Sure, I'll take a swing.
Putin is a dictatorial thug whose enemies keep dropping dead of "unfortunate accidents." He is pushing towards fully re-establishing the totalitarianism of the old Soviet Union. Under the guidance of his shirtless, macho leadership, Russia is turning homosexuality into a crime, and has recently made domestic abuse LESS of a crime, prompting a huge upswing in spousal beatings. And that's really just the start, he is NOT a nice man.
So now Flynn has quit--probably to forestall charges related to espionage or national security violations--but Trump continues to flout even the most basic national security protocols. Trump dumped the White House chief information security officer earlier this month, the guy responsible for making sure presidential communications are secure, and has not replaced him. Although he has been issued the special encrypted presidential smartphone, he continues to use his old, unsecured Android phone. There are people in the Pentagon now who have already said that the White House situation room is no longer a secured space, and Russia or other governments might be listening in.
It's not that it's bad to have ties with another country. It's the rumors that Trump in particular may have received large financial compensation for favors to be-rendered in the future.
For example, 19.5% of Rosnef stock was transfered to an unknown party recently. This is worth a very large sum of money. The Russians however need Exxon expertise to exploit certain oil deposits. We have placed sanctions against Russia preventing this.
The point is a President is not supposed to view the position as a way to personally enrich himself, but to serve the greater interests of the nation as a whole.
As for other reasons some people may be concerned with Russia - Trump has called NATO useless. NATO basically exists to contain Russian expansion. Various European countries are nervous (Poland and smaller Baltic States for example). Russia claims to be helping 'oppressed Russian minority', goes in with troops. See Georgia and Ukraine recently.
The leader of a country (and its government's advisers) must have one loyalty and that is to their country.
Anything that puts that into doubt is of deep concern for the citizens of that country.
A theory.....
For Democrats, the Russians are a useful boogeyman.
If they can be both demonized & connected to Trump, then it's worth increasing the risk of violent conflict.
Politics is often not about what's best for the country, but rather what's best for the party.
So they're currently saying that something nefarious is there, because something nefarious might be there.
But have they thought this thru?
Let's say their dream comes true, ie, Trump is impeached, convicted, & driven from office.
Pence would become Prez.
Would he be weakened by such events?
No....his more conventional Republican status could mean even greater cooperation with his party's control of Congress.
Is that better for progressives & everyone else than Trump?
More people should play go.
One learns that an attack requires great care & planning, lest a battle won cause an overall loss.
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This isn't really the point. The point is the President might have illegal (or at the very least, unethical) connections to a foreign nation that puts other interests above that of the American people. The line of succession is in place and is something that is going to be accepted should that line of action be used. Pence doesn't have these allegations tied to him so he isn't part of the current discussion.
Rapha
Active Member
Who cares because Judgement Day will send everyone who has caused pain to innocent civilians to hell.
So if Trump is Mr Peace - fine. Time to rebuild USA.
If Donald Trump is going to act out Donald Sutherland in the film 'Hunger Games', after Hellary Klingon causes a civil war followed by JADE Helm allowing UN (Russian) troops to take control of USA, fine.
So What Difference Does It Make when everyone gets Judged sooner or later by their victims. Its called Payback for Crimes Against Humanity.
So if Trump is Mr Peace - fine. Time to rebuild USA.
If Donald Trump is going to act out Donald Sutherland in the film 'Hunger Games', after Hellary Klingon causes a civil war followed by JADE Helm allowing UN (Russian) troops to take control of USA, fine.
So What Difference Does It Make when everyone gets Judged sooner or later by their victims. Its called Payback for Crimes Against Humanity.
Oh, but it is the point (as I see it).
Many are making much of the Russian connections because they hope for ammunition to use against
Trump. (This is what happened during the election, with the unevidenced claims of mere likelihood that
Russians helped him.) The hope for something illegal isn't really about wanting to enforce the law.
(We saw that with Hillary's server issue.) The law is about politics more than justice.
I am happy you brought this up because it highlights a very irritating hypocrisy that is beginning to transpire in many political discussions. (Not this one, thankfully.) Many Trump supporters are claiming that very thing while also being very supportive of persecuting Hillary under the exact same pretense. In regards to this being about politics more than justice, I can't argue with that. The Dems on capital hill want this to happen for their party to gain strength. With that in mind, you are correct when you said...
For me, on the other hand, I want this to happen because I see it as potentially dangerous and unethical for an elected official. My argument is more idealistic than realistic because my primary voting platform is international stability and human rights issues, both of which Russia strikes out on. Of course, I don't have a real horse in the race but it is my opinion nonetheless.
Human rights suffer most in war.
For Democrats to poke the bear (Putin, not @Wu Wei ) is to raise that risk without improving things in Russia.
As for Pence, is his theocratic bent really good for human rights?
Not all humans.
I agree, which is what makes me antsy if Russia gets frisky with their Balkan neighbors.
To be fair, this is a piece of the Repub puzzle that is tough to avoid.
To the shock of the Alt-Left, Americans are not interested in going to war with Russia which is being used as the Democrat's excuse for losing power at every level of government both federal and state and the executive, the American people more concerned with their own US "spy agencies" spying on Americans themselves and their own chosen elected majority representatives as the real threat and not Russia, and see moles in these "spy agencies" so bent on leaking their "intelligence" against Americans to the press that these "agents" are actually enabling Russians by revealing to the Russia and the entire world exactly what spying the US has in place which clearly has been exposed as in violation of protocol by tapping the phones and spying on Ambassadors, interferring in the governments of Russia and other countries and which is exposing the entire US intelligence operations and methods to any and all to now more effectively counter.
Now it looks like Pakistani nationals employed by the Obama administration and the Democratic Party are behind hacks of the government, spy agencies and likely inside these agencies, and hacking the Democratic Party itself. I predict that someday we will find out these Pakistanis hired by the Democrats were the one's working with Hillary's own underlings who hate her for being an abusive drunk on meds who hacked the DNC.
Meanwhile I wake up this morning after yesterday the DOW going over 20,500 and, incredible, now the DOW is up again and I have to laugh at the efforts of the Alt-Left, the Democratic Party and the Republican establishment such as the loon John McCain and 2016 Presidential candidate and big time loser in the Primaries Lindsey Graham try and get Americans to turn on Trump when American's wallets are now getting fat with money in investments, their 401k's booming, real jobs - Americans will turn on Trump? No way, Jose, money and jobs ain't bad news. Good luck with that, maybe more anti-cop rhetoric will get the Dems back in power (nope, mose massive losses). Let's get a real poll instead of phony CNN polls asking America, "Do you agree with the Democratic Party and John McCain that we should go to war with Russia to help the National Socialists in the Ukraine because Russia is our worst enemy and not Islamic terrorism, China, North Korea and other threats like nuclear Iran?" ...
Menwhile, I actually encountered personally a Democratic Party operative yesterday going around handing out a flyer saying some quote from John McCain blaming Trump and Republicans for the recent North Korean missile launch, so I asked only one question - actually as a joke - after listening to her incoherent spew, "So, your point is we should go to war with North Korea?". She looks blank then says yes. This fool has no concept of her own message or content, no idea that North Korea has been doing this stuff for decades, that Bill Clinton is at fault for the North Koreans getting the bomb in the first place, then I find out this dumb woman is a supporter of Chelsea Clinton for President.
Meanwhile, Chelsea Clinton's new book is a complete flop, released last week "Governing Global Health: Who Runs the World and Why?", almost no one is buying it and currently stands at number 74,374 on the Amazon Bestsellers Chart.
There is now what is being called the "American Spring" as well as the "European Spring" against the Alt-Left and against Islamic terrorism and displacement of jobs by unfriendly foreigners. The EU is increasingly seen as anti-European and globalist foreign surrogates of international cabals such as the now collapsing Clinton Foundation and Global Initiative, George Soros, cheap labor interests and international bankers.
Anti-EU Wilders who is actually pro-European but against the EU which is increasingly seen as an attack on European peoples and as globalist elites and not European, is the frontrunner as Dutch election campaign begins, in 2005 the Netherlands rejected the European constitution and the anti-establishment sentiment grew even stronger when last year it voted down a treaty for closer EU ties with Ukraine, now Wilders is leading in the election after tyrannical courts in the Netherlands convicted him of "inciting discrimination" for stating in public that the Dutch people want "Fewer, fewer Moroccans not more immigrating (into the Netherlands)", the ruling by the court seen by many Dutch as the typical knee jerk and outrageous attack on free speech by the Alt-Left. Many Dutch feel that European peoples are being suppressed by a globalist effort to flood Europe with Muslims who are now establishing enclaves that demand totalitarian and fascist Sharia Law in place of Europe's democratic governance that threatens the freedoms and natural rights of Euro peoples and "Holland" joins a sweeping "European Spring" seen in other countries such as France, Germany, many Eastern European countries, Greece, and now in the UK that "the boat is full, no more trouble-makers that harass free people".
The Democrats will become more shrill as they teeter literally on the edge of the cliff and even their fake news in the MSM won't save them from even more massive losses in the nevt upcoming elections.
Now it looks like Pakistani nationals employed by the Obama administration and the Democratic Party are behind hacks of the government, spy agencies and likely inside these agencies, and hacking the Democratic Party itself. I predict that someday we will find out these Pakistanis hired by the Democrats were the one's working with Hillary's own underlings who hate her for being an abusive drunk on meds who hacked the DNC.
Meanwhile I wake up this morning after yesterday the DOW going over 20,500 and, incredible, now the DOW is up again and I have to laugh at the efforts of the Alt-Left, the Democratic Party and the Republican establishment such as the loon John McCain and 2016 Presidential candidate and big time loser in the Primaries Lindsey Graham try and get Americans to turn on Trump when American's wallets are now getting fat with money in investments, their 401k's booming, real jobs - Americans will turn on Trump? No way, Jose, money and jobs ain't bad news. Good luck with that, maybe more anti-cop rhetoric will get the Dems back in power (nope, mose massive losses). Let's get a real poll instead of phony CNN polls asking America, "Do you agree with the Democratic Party and John McCain that we should go to war with Russia to help the National Socialists in the Ukraine because Russia is our worst enemy and not Islamic terrorism, China, North Korea and other threats like nuclear Iran?" ...
Menwhile, I actually encountered personally a Democratic Party operative yesterday going around handing out a flyer saying some quote from John McCain blaming Trump and Republicans for the recent North Korean missile launch, so I asked only one question - actually as a joke - after listening to her incoherent spew, "So, your point is we should go to war with North Korea?". She looks blank then says yes. This fool has no concept of her own message or content, no idea that North Korea has been doing this stuff for decades, that Bill Clinton is at fault for the North Koreans getting the bomb in the first place, then I find out this dumb woman is a supporter of Chelsea Clinton for President.
Meanwhile, Chelsea Clinton's new book is a complete flop, released last week "Governing Global Health: Who Runs the World and Why?", almost no one is buying it and currently stands at number 74,374 on the Amazon Bestsellers Chart.
There is now what is being called the "American Spring" as well as the "European Spring" against the Alt-Left and against Islamic terrorism and displacement of jobs by unfriendly foreigners. The EU is increasingly seen as anti-European and globalist foreign surrogates of international cabals such as the now collapsing Clinton Foundation and Global Initiative, George Soros, cheap labor interests and international bankers.
Anti-EU Wilders who is actually pro-European but against the EU which is increasingly seen as an attack on European peoples and as globalist elites and not European, is the frontrunner as Dutch election campaign begins, in 2005 the Netherlands rejected the European constitution and the anti-establishment sentiment grew even stronger when last year it voted down a treaty for closer EU ties with Ukraine, now Wilders is leading in the election after tyrannical courts in the Netherlands convicted him of "inciting discrimination" for stating in public that the Dutch people want "Fewer, fewer Moroccans not more immigrating (into the Netherlands)", the ruling by the court seen by many Dutch as the typical knee jerk and outrageous attack on free speech by the Alt-Left. Many Dutch feel that European peoples are being suppressed by a globalist effort to flood Europe with Muslims who are now establishing enclaves that demand totalitarian and fascist Sharia Law in place of Europe's democratic governance that threatens the freedoms and natural rights of Euro peoples and "Holland" joins a sweeping "European Spring" seen in other countries such as France, Germany, many Eastern European countries, Greece, and now in the UK that "the boat is full, no more trouble-makers that harass free people".
The Democrats will become more shrill as they teeter literally on the edge of the cliff and even their fake news in the MSM won't save them from even more massive losses in the nevt upcoming elections.
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Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Obviously, ideologues and the media love political scandal, or even the hint of it. However, the American population, at large, hasn't given any indication that they've actually cared about such things for a long, long time.
This raises an interesting point. Most of us are pretty up-to-date and "informed" (in quotes because, well, MSM), but are others outside of our experience just as up to date?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Trump wasn't kidding when he said that he could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and not lose any supporters.
Other foreign countries have influenced affairs in the U.S. in the past, so it's not as if this is anything new, if even there's anything substantial to this alleged "Russian Connection."
The thing is, the smartest thing we can do at this point is work for a closer and friendlier relationship with Russia. There is absolutely no reason for us to be at odds with each other, not at this point anyway.
I remember one of my professors back in college in the mid-1980s was a former KGB defector, and he said that the Russians knew that the Cold War was done and had run its course. Any prudent observer of geopolitical trends could see that the real threat of instability and conflict by that time was in the Middle East and Africa, not the Soviet Union.
If the US and other Western powers had worked with Russia in good faith decades ago, a lot of current dilemmas in the Middle East and elsewhere in the world might have been resolved by now. The one thing that gave a lot of these rogue nations and terrorist factions a lot of encouragement is that the major powers (mainly US and Russia) have always been at odds with each other. But if we can resolve our differences with Russia, come to terms, and show a unified front, then that could help bring about a more stable and peaceful world. If we can get China on board, then even North Korea might fall in line.
We've used a lot of these countries as pawns in our geopolitical aspirations, and it's time for that to stop. Even if we don't like Putin, he's the one we have to deal with for now, and the friendly inclusion of Russia is vital if there's ever going to be any stability in this world.
The thing is, the smartest thing we can do at this point is work for a closer and friendlier relationship with Russia. There is absolutely no reason for us to be at odds with each other, not at this point anyway.
I remember one of my professors back in college in the mid-1980s was a former KGB defector, and he said that the Russians knew that the Cold War was done and had run its course. Any prudent observer of geopolitical trends could see that the real threat of instability and conflict by that time was in the Middle East and Africa, not the Soviet Union.
If the US and other Western powers had worked with Russia in good faith decades ago, a lot of current dilemmas in the Middle East and elsewhere in the world might have been resolved by now. The one thing that gave a lot of these rogue nations and terrorist factions a lot of encouragement is that the major powers (mainly US and Russia) have always been at odds with each other. But if we can resolve our differences with Russia, come to terms, and show a unified front, then that could help bring about a more stable and peaceful world. If we can get China on board, then even North Korea might fall in line.
We've used a lot of these countries as pawns in our geopolitical aspirations, and it's time for that to stop. Even if we don't like Putin, he's the one we have to deal with for now, and the friendly inclusion of Russia is vital if there's ever going to be any stability in this world.
Russia, in itself, is responsible for a great deal of instability in the Balkans. Can't claim they are the key to stability while they cause the opposite.
Trump prolly confuses many because they're not used to a presidential
candidate using trash talk would fit better a pro wrestling heal.
If one expects his rants to always reflect reality, one just doesn't
understand this new phenomenon.
Let me show Trump being "mentored"....
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Father Heathen
Veteran Member
That wasn't my point. He implied that he could do no wrong in the eyes of his followers, and he seems to have been right for the most part.
I'd heard many change their voting intentions over things like crotch grabbing.
So I think you're over-generalizing.
But I also understand that many, after picking a side, will never waver.