Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Suit yourself.
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Woke Marxist-Intersectional Politics Make You Miserable
- Thread starter Mindmaster
- Start date
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
I think he was looking for a reason not to support them without it appearing to be about race. He found some wacky participants from the far left fringe and that was his out.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Wow, a whole batch of stereotypes of a group in all one package! Congrats, as I think you just may have set a new world's record!
Amazing, I tell ya!
It looks like the sort of immature pearl clutching you saw during the satanic panic. With people who don't know any more about the subject than a propaganda pamphlet trying to turn beliefs into monolith when most aren't even fringe by any reasonable stretch. Nor does one writer for Dungeons and Dragons being an occultist suddenly make D&D satanist propaganda. *crack of thunder, group gasping, waifish men and women fainting.*
Anyway it's a call to emotion fallacy trying to use shallow red scare mentality to damage a straw position.
What is it with Americans and Marxism anyway?
Like it’s just a political/academic theory, not the prophesied apocalypse.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It seems like people who live under Marxist inspired systems would much rather go through the Apocalypse.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Yeah. A wacky participant like a co-founder who admits she's a Marxist.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Yep we'll see where that straw position leads to.
Mostly a lot of eye rolling.
So you know people who lived under marxist inspired systems? That’s interesting.
Well I know plenty who live under hyper capitalist “inspired” systems literally waiting for the apocalypse. So I mean, eh, so what?
Tambourine
Well-Known Member
Have you supported BLM prior to this, or not?
There are plenty on the left who agree with much of this. Maybe even all of it. I'd caution being reactionary to certain left voices or tropes.
Whilst many on the right complain bitterly at being 'forgottten people', to the point that Donald found a demographic to support him, it strikes me as ironic how quick some on the right are to treat all 'lefties' as a homogenous group, pretending that the most extreme and radical of them are representative of the whole.
I'm not a 'leftie' by most standards, yet whatever my thoughts are on matters seem drowned out by some in the rush to play victim, and decry anyone who disagrees as 'hypocritical cry babies'.
Well...I'm right here. Do you think I'm a hypocritical cry baby? Do you think I'm unable to make up my own mind? Am I a mere victim of identity politics and cancel culture?
You are officially cancelled. Didn’t you know?
My problem is I can never tell the tropes from actual issues anymore, honestly. I'm trying to understand this in a way that doesn't feel like I'm building a giant strawman, but it seems to happen anyway. Maybe, that is what vexes me about it. I can't tell where the tropes, group-think, and individuals merge.
I understand concepts like seeking fairness, but I don't understand vindictiveness. If you have the fairness now, for example, what does it matter what happened X years before it? Civilization certainly has a learning curve, and it's not going to get everything right all of the time. If it's getting it "mostly right" that's about what we can ask for, but with an eye to improving things as we're able. However, many of the things they're proposing don't seem like improvements OR seem to be results that lead to a net gain from my perspective.
Well, at least looking back on my own experience and observation, there's been a lot of propaganda and fear-mongering which came out of various red scares, the McCarthy era (along with the antics of Hoover and Nixon, among others), Cold War paranoia, etc.
A lot of what is considered "bad" or "questionable" about the US government was rooted in excessive paranoia and obsession over anything related to communism, socialism, Marxism, or anything on that end of the political spectrum. The creation of super-secret agencies like the CIA and NSA came about due to fears of communism. McCarthy's hearings on "un-American activities" also echoed Americans' fears of communism. J. Edgar Hoover's crusade against MLK and civil rights was mainly rooted in the fear that MLK had been compromised by communists. Likewise with his Counter Intelligence Program (COINTELPRO). The CIA's MK Ultra program was also rooted in fears of communism.
The Korean War, the Vietnam War, along with various other coups and wars by proxy - from Iran to Chile to the Congo to Guatemala and many other places - were all due to a collective irrational fear of communism.
So, yes, anything to do with Marxism, socialism, communism, etc., many Americans tend to go ballistic over that sort of thing. Even beyond the official positions taken by the government, there have been private organizations (such as the John Birch Society) which have been even more zealous in the crusade against communism, Marxism, socialism, or whatever other "-isms" strike fear into their hearts.
It's a mixture of latent isolationism, insularity, American exceptionalism and outright paranoia on the one hand, but it also seems that the ruling class doesn't seem to like the idea of "peasants" being treated as equals. I believe that's the root cause of America's paranoia about Marxism.
It's not that American businesses were so utterly broke or impoverished that they simply couldn't afford to pay their workers better or give them better treatment. They've always had plenty of money - more than enough to provide a living wage.
The American fear of communism never had anything to do with practicality, but it was more a matter of philosophy. Simply put, aristocrats are highly offended at the idea of "common people" being treated decently and fairly. They think of proles as cattle, and cattle should not eat at the same table as people. It has nothing to do with reality or whether there's simply not enough to provide a decent living wage.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
In the defense of the right, does anyone remember the collusion delusion scam and hoax, where all the top level Democrats lied nonstop for three years, running a scam. They were quite effective in the beginning. Unless one had critical thinking skills it was easy to get sucked into the intrigue.
This ability of their leaders to lie constantly makes it hard to know what to believe, in terms of what the left really stands for, and what is just another scam or distraction. The left leaning media plays along either way. Maybe someone can clarify this.
Trump likes to brag and exaggerate but this type of lying is more obvious and can be debunked immediately. It is not malicious. The lying of the left is more refined and can linger much longer, since it is malicious and coordinated.
Black lives Matter does not care about blacks killed by other blacks. Their name is a hoax, which hides darker intent. The Democrat solution to racism is reverse racism. Only a racist thinks his way while pretending to be the peace maker.
The Left leadership also lied to their own base during the collusion delusion. Not everyone was in on the scam. Yet their base was not upset about being lied to and taking part in the persecution of an innocent man. This makes it harder to know what the left stands for and what the left accepts, just to stay in the club. The bull crap permeates the entire club consciously and unconsciously.
I am not american, american politics is a stupidity all on its own. Even the left wing dems in that fair country are pretty far right.
Most of what is happening nowadays, at least as far as what I can tell from my own perspective and observation, is that most of "the left" is being duped. What used to be considered the left wing has been pretty well gutted and only a shell of what it once was. On an international scale, the Soviet Bloc collapsed, and China pretty much jumped into bed with Western capitalists. Various Marxist-oriented and/or non-aligned national liberation groups may be considered allies of convenience for "the left," but their nationalistic inclinations have led to ideological inconsistencies, when compared with the overall internationalist perspective that communists once held.
Domestically, the progressives and liberals which dominated the rhetoric in the 60s and 70s started to fall out (if they didn't sell out), and their various messages became either watered-down or co-opted. I remember when one of the former members of the SLA who disappeared was eventually found out and caught living under an assumed name and living the life of a "soccer mom."
I think this is emblematic of what happened to the left, and it's also why I believe that any current rhetoric about "leftists," "Marxists," "socialists," etc. is terribly overblown and probably even more rooted in paranoia than even McCarthy or J. Edgar Hoover had. At least during their time, the Soviet Union and Red China were viable, formidable powers to be reckoned with, so at least there was some solid basis for concern. But now, the Soviet Union is long gone (with Russia now being capitalist and Christian), and China is "communist" in name only. The only truly "communist" nations remaining are North Korea and Cuba, and they're not really any major powers to worry about. A lot of people mention Venezuela, though I don't even think Venezuela counts; but either way, Venezuela is no major worry either.
In short, "the left" is all washed up, and at least in America, they had some moderate success during the FDR years up until the Nixon Administration, at which point it went seriously downhill for the left. What we're seeing today is not really "the left," but more of a capitalist parody and imitation of the left. Just as with the "soccer mom," Bill and Hillary protested and marched with the hippies against war, but look what they became by the 1990s. Whatever they were, they weren't left wing anymore (if they ever were at all). They might have still believed in some of the same ideals which encapsulated the causes of civil rights, anti-war, anti-poverty, and general opposition to the "establishment," but it was all watered-down and meaningless by the 1990s.
A lot of people (particularly those on the right) seem to think that certain phenomena such as "political correctness" and identity politics are left-wing inventions, but it seems to serve the cause of right-wing capitalism more than anything else. Many people seem confused by this, because they associate the right-wing generally with religious fundamentalism, racism, fascism, nationalism, etc., but they've forgotten that capitalists, aristocrats, monarchists, and nobles are also on that end of the spectrum as well. That doesn't mean that they're all the same or all lumped in together, but just as with various left-wing factions, the right-wing is also a big tent where many factions overlap with each other.
So, admittedly, there is a great deal of confusion out there. Whatever voices of dissent and protest are out there, their message gets muddled and cacophonous, leading to even more confusion. I don't get a strong sense that anyone really wants to build bridges or educate anyone or try to come to some sort of amicable solution to our present dilemma. Those who consider themselves "woke" have developed a "those-who-are-not-with-us-are-against-us" attitude, and anyone who is not as "woke" as they are must instantly be considered "deplorable."
Of course, the right-wing has its own version of being "woke," whether they call it "the red pill" or reference some kind of "awakening" or "enlightenment" that those poor liberals, progressives, and socialists simply can't understand.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I'll keep the capitalism for 200 Alex.