Wolves Return to Northeast!

[jbg]

This is news I have been hoping for; NYSDEC Now Admits Cooperstown Wolf Was A Wild Wolf and similar title (link). This article appeard in yesterday morning's New York Times, see How Mistaken Identity and One Bullet Revealed a Star Predator Far From Home (non-paywalled link). I wanted to find links that were not "paywalled." Admittedly, I am a major supporter of reintroduction of wolves, where possible, see How Wolves Are Driving Down Mountain Lion Populations - Yellowstone Wolf Restoration. In my view, deer and other ungulates, while fetchingly cute, are destroying the forests. Apex predators are needed. In the Northeast, the St. Lawrence River is a natural barrier. However, whether with bridges, surreptitious human help or occasional freezes, wolves seemed to have found their way back.

 

[Revoltingest]

Great!

 

[Heyo]

This is news I have been hoping for; NYSDEC Now Admits Cooperstown Wolf Was A Wild Wolf and similar title (link). This article appeard in yesterday morning's New York Times, see How Mistaken Identity and One Bullet Revealed a Star Predator Far From Home (non-paywalled link). I wanted to find links that were not "paywalled." Admittedly, I am a major supporter of reintroduction of wolves, where possible, see How Wolves Are Driving Down Mountain Lion Populations - Yellowstone Wolf Restoration. In my view, deer and other ungulates, while fetchingly cute, are destroying the forests. Apex predators are needed. In the Northeast, the St. Lawrence River is a natural barrier. However, whether with bridges, surreptitious human help or occasional freezes, wolves seemed to have found their way back.

Good for you. Somehow wolves seem to avoid our very rural neighbourhood. Maybe it's too open here. Since about 10 years wolves are slowly coming back to northern Germany from the East and they have already reached the border to the Netherlands. In counties around us wolves have been sighted but not here (afaIk). I don't mind but many people still fear them.

 

[jbg]

Good for you. Somehow wolves seem to avoid our very rural neighbourhood. Maybe it's too open here. Since about 10 years wolves are slowly coming back to northern Germany from the East and they have already reached the border to the Netherlands. In counties around us wolves have been sighted but not here (afaIk). I don't mind but many people still fear them.

I don't fear them. I got up the courage to pet an animal that was 98% wolf yesterday. It was straining at the leash to taste my finger.

 

[Heyo]

I don't fear them. I got up the courage to pet an animal that was 98% wolf yesterday. It was straining at the leash to taste my finger.

We have wolf centres where they keep them in huge enclosures. If they feel like it they show up where you can see them. I also had the opportunity to interact with one pack directly (supervised). They are like cuddly big dogs. There's a reason they were among the first animals being domesticated. Humans and wolves can co-exist when both overcome their irrational fear.

 

[ChristineM]

This is news I have been hoping for; NYSDEC Now Admits Cooperstown Wolf Was A Wild Wolf and similar title (link). This article appeard in yesterday morning's New York Times, see How Mistaken Identity and One Bullet Revealed a Star Predator Far From Home (non-paywalled link). I wanted to find links that were not "paywalled." Admittedly, I am a major supporter of reintroduction of wolves, where possible, see How Wolves Are Driving Down Mountain Lion Populations - Yellowstone Wolf Restoration. In my view, deer and other ungulates, while fetchingly cute, are destroying the forests. Apex predators are needed. In the Northeast, the St. Lawrence River is a natural barrier. However, whether with bridges, surreptitious human help or occasional freezes, wolves seemed to have found their way back.

They are returning in France too. After being hunted to extinction in the 1930s a few found their way from Eastern Europe in the 1990s. There are now over 600 individuals and are a protected species.

Same goes for bears to but they were deliberately reintroduced

 

[Brickjectivity]

I think we should have high concentrations of wolves in cities where the people who love them are, but for some reason they want to put the wolves out here where the farms are. I don't understand. If they love wolves so much then they should host them.

But I do understand that the wolves might have a slight positive impact on ecology. By the same token we should let beavers make dams in the cities to improve the ecology there. Let in the air a little bit and shake up the real estate market.

 

[syo]

Ah wolves! My lovelies! I love them!

 

[jbg]

I think we should have high concentrations of wolves in cities where the people who love them are, but for some reason they want to put the wolves out here where the farms are. I don't understand. If they love wolves so much then they should host them.

But I do understand that the wolves might have a slight positive impact on ecology. By the same token we should let beavers make dams in the cities to improve the ecology there. Let in the air a little bit and shake up the real estate market.

I get the attack on hypocrisy. OTOH rural areas are on a continuum where they are just closer to a natural state whereas, except for parks (and even Central Park is totally man-made) there is nothing natural about cities. If you put wolves into NYC about 95% or more of their sources of food would involve confrontations with people. In almost totally wild Adirondacks and Yellowstone, perhaps 5% of their diet, if that, involves confrontations with people or their property. Suburban and rural areas, somewhere in between. Culling the deer population in rural areas benefits those areas; wolf pack attacks on human crowds in cities confer no such benefit.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I get the attack on hypocrisy. OTOH rural areas are on a continuum where they are just closer to a natural state whereas, except for parks (and even Central Park is totally man-made) there is nothing natural about cities. If you put wolves into NYC about 95% or more of their sources of food would involve confrontations with people. In almost totally wild Adirondacks and Yellowstone, perhaps 5% of their diet, if that, involves confrontations with people or their property. Suburban and rural areas, somewhere in between. Culling the deer population in rural areas benefits those areas; wolf pack attacks on human crowds in cities confer no such benefit.

Yes, you are right, and I have plenty of hypocrisy of my own. I aim to bring attention to the human cost that doesn't always get mentioned when we talk about these things. How many times have our lives been greatly improved by some poor and unknown human of the kind most of us dismiss? Many times. They are poor, downtrodden, nearly die and then help us all or even save us all; and we look back and think how lucky we are they lived long enough. Yet we put at risk lives like theirs as acceptable for the reintroduction of some carnivore species than can never learn to live off of anything but death. We might be killing everyone by this risk.

I realize it is only part of the negotiations, part of the discussion. If we reinstate wolves let us at least worry about the possibly extinction level threat of the death of one unknown and disrespected human life. It could be the one we need to save us all.

 

[Wu Wei]

Question, how many posting here are from or live close to the area the wolves are being reintroduced?

We already have coyote and a few coy wolves, not so many mountain lions. And the last time DEC reintroduced something it was a lynx...and all were dead within a year

 

[jbg]

Question, how many posting here are from or live close to the area the wolves are being reintroduced?

We already have coyote and a few coy wolves, not so many mountain lions. And the last time DEC reintroduced something it was a lynx...and all were dead within a year

Coyotes have invaded our area, naturally. They are larger than Western coyotes and their genetics are mixed. They do form packs. This is a nice way of calling them "wolves." I heard them howling a week ago Sunday.

Ecological niches find ways to be filled. I actually believe that wolves are recreating themselves as much as migrating. Western coyotes are basically scavengers and rodent-hunters. In the East the available "chow" are an over-abundance of deer.

 

[Valjean]

I have no problem with wolves in the wild. It's the ones in the large financial centers I find most worrisome.

 

[Heyo]

Question, how many posting here are from or live close to the area the wolves are being reintroduced?

We already have coyote and a few coy wolves, not so many mountain lions. And the last time DEC reintroduced something it was a lynx...and all were dead within a year

Wolves are not reintroduced. At least not in Europe and not in the north-east of the US. They've reintroduced themselves, all we have to do is not stand in their way.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Question, how many posting here are from or live close to the area the wolves are being reintroduced?

We already have coyote and a few coy wolves, not so many mountain lions. And the last time DEC reintroduced something it was a lynx...and all were dead within a year

Not I, although I did previously live next to the Great Dismal Swamp which had black bears. I encountered one on a road, once. She walked out and sat down in front of me in broad daylight, apparently confused about whether to continue crossing the road or to go back. Like a squirrel but slower. She was not aggressive, but she took a moment to get out of the way of my Buick. She went back the way she came, so I presume she must have hid until I was long gone and then crossed later.

We have some sort of night parade of demons though. I hear them at night once in a while. There is a great screeching and howling, and it sounds like hundreds of demons passing through the wood. Its very loud and blood curdling, and it moves swiftly. I'd say the sound moves 20-40mph. I imagine it is more than one species of animal, but I don't know what species. It could be that a few carnivores are traveling and causing a ruckus.

We probably have a few bears, definitely a few large cats that occasionally hunt deer here, and we have lots of wild dogs and pet dogs that run together in absurdly happy romps.

 

[Heyo]

We have some sort of night parade of demons though. I hear them at night once in a while. There is a great screeching and howling, and it sounds like hundreds of demons passing through the wood. Its very loud and blood curdling, and it moves swiftly. I'd say the sound moves 20-40mph.

Screeching and howling? Probably a family of owls. There are quite a few species which produce the weirdest sounds.

 

[Subduction Zone]

. Culling the deer population in rural areas benefits those areas; wolf pack attacks on human crowds in cities confer no such benefit.

Well it might "cure" the homeless problem(ducks).

Seriously the deer populations are a problem in many eastern states, or so I have heard. The population is too dense to allow hunting and without any predation at all there is an unhealthy impact on deer as well.

 

[Wu Wei]

Wolves are not reintroduced. At least not in Europe and not in the north-east of the US. They've reintroduced themselves, all we have to do is not stand in their way.

There is the problem, we are already there in the NE and many who are there I am assuming have no intention of getting out of their way. About the time they attack something that those living there get upset about, then there will be issues.

I'm not against it, but the reality is, there will be problems. Like I mentioned with the Lynx that were reintroduced, all were dead in 1 year, and most were hit by cars. And there is a major deer tick infestation in the North East too.

 

[Heyo]

There is the problem, we are already there in the NE and many who are there I am assuming have no intention of getting out of their way. About the time they attack something that those living there get upset about, then there will be issues.

I'm not against it, but the reality is, there will be problems. Like I mentioned with the Lynx that were reintroduced, all were dead in 1 year, and most were hit by cars. And there is a major deer tick infestation in the North East too.

As I said, we have them here and Europe is at least as densely populated as the northeastern US. There are problems but the biggest problem is ignorance.

 

[Wu Wei]

As I said, we have them here and Europe is at least as densely populated as the northeastern US. There are problems but the biggest problem is ignorance.

Cars and people with livestock, pets, kids and guns are the biggest issue for wolves here