Women and tilaka/vibhuti...

[Gaura Priya]

Why is it that save Gaudiya Vaishnavis, I have not seen women wear Vaishnavite or Shaivite tilaka?

I just do not understand why women are not allowed to wear sectarian markings, since they are a profession of their beliefs... perhaps it is of the fact that back then women did not take initiation and instead had to serve their husbands, considered the guru of the household?

I have yet to see and would love to see a woman wearing Sri Vaishnava tilaka...

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Why is it that save Gaudiya Vaishnavis, I have not seen women wear Vaishnavite or Shaivite tilaka?

I just do not understand why women are not allowed to wear sectarian markings, since they are a profession of their beliefs... perhaps it is of the fact that back then women did not take initiation and instead had to serve their husbands, considered the guru of the household?

I have yet to see and would love to see a woman wearing Sri Vaishnava tilaka...

The bindi is like a Shakti tilaka. I have seen women in India get marked with the tilaka both in Shiva and Shakti temples.

 

[Gaura Priya]

But the bindi does not have the same feeling as an urdhva paundra tilaka or the tripundra marking...

I have only seen Gaudiya women wear such markings, but I have never seen this practice advertised elsewhere in any Shaiva or Vaishnava sampradaya.

I have yet to see a woman wear the three horizontal lines to denote her Shaivite status!

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

But the bindi does not have the same feeling as an urdhva paundra tilaka or the tripundra marking...

I have only seen Gaudiya women wear such markings, but I have never seen this practice advertised elsewhere in any Shaiva or Vaishnava sampradaya.

I have yet to see a woman wear the three horizontal lines to denote her Shaivite status!

In India I have only seen women wear tilaka coming out of temples. Are you talking about American women. Sometimes we in the West don't recognize marks of religion in India. In Bengal it is common to see women in white saris with a red boarder. This is a mark of a Shakti worshiper.

Most women who wear Bindis no matter what sect. It was had religious meaning, today it is fashion.

 

[Satsangi]

Just my opinion- male and female are different species- they are different hormonally, physiologically, biologically, physically etc etc. The only similarity is that both are homosapiens. Hence, women wearing bindi is the same as wearing tilaka for them.

Regards,

 

[Gaura Priya]

I am talking about urdhva paundra tilaka... such as this woman:

Gaudiya Vaishnavas seem to be the only traditional sampradaya to give some recognition to women and to have them also wear tilaka... bindi is just a beauty mark nowadays.

Besides Shaktas and Gaudiya Vaishnavas, they are the only traditions I know that allow their women to wear tilaka in the same way as men, with no distinction.

 

[Gaura Priya]

This is a beautiful conceptualisation of Srimati Vishnupriya, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's wife!

 

[Kuvalya_Dharmasindhu]

Well i wear a bindi (although it's called a bindu when men wear it) despite the fact that men don't normally wear it... And sometimes i get looked at by Indian people in this area. But normally if i smile and great them with the Anjali Mudra they are surprised but very accepting.

What i've come to understand is that most women whether Vaishnava or Shaiva wear the Bindi for cultural reasons as well as religious reasons. And orthodox men wear the Bindu if they are orthodox, celebrating a holiday or if they have been to the temple. But i've heard that most women will worship the Divine Mother instead of focusing on the her counterpart (Lord Vishnu or Shiva) despite her sectarian affiliation. For example, a woman whose been brought up Vaishnava will focus on Sri Lakshmi and likewise with a Shiva woman and Kali/Durga/Parvati...

But, if it is an issue of restricting women from wearing the Tilaka within a tradition (especially the Sri Sampradaya), i'd be very interested in the reasons for this....?

Hari Om!

 

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


On another site it was asked, Why do many wear a mark ( tilaka तिलक) on the forehead i.e. vibhūtiḥ (sacred ash) , kuṁkum (power for red dot) etc.


I thought I would offer how I answered this here, as it seems appropriate to the conversation at hand...the idea of vibhūtiḥ (sacred ash) worn on the forehead.

There are various marks or tilaka for those that follow Śiva, Viṣṇu, or Śrī Devī and even those that may be worn by various varṇa-s¹ i.e. brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and sūdra.The marks can be vertical or horizontal lines, dots, etc. found on the forehead, some also cover the nose.

Svāmī Cinmāyānanda has said , the tilak is applied with the prayer - "May I remember the Lord. May this pious feeling pervade all my activities. May I be righteous in my deeds." Even when we temporarily forget this prayerful attitude the mark on another reminds us of our resolve.

I thought to focus on tripuṇḍra and those that follow Śiva. For those following Śiva sacred ash - bhasma is used.

This ash may also be applied upon the body and for some the whole body may be covered in bhasma. One of Śiva's names is Bhasmoddhūlitavigraha or bhasmoddhūlita-vigraha: bhasma is bhasman भस्मन् or sacred ash.

This ash is the remains of yajña or sacrifice ( from yaj यज् to worship, adore, offer and present). The ash comes from the remains of the homa होम (or hava ह&#2357 fire sacrifice which is part of pūjā पूजा (worship, homage or adoration to the Supreme, higher beings, superiors, etc). This ash is also called vibhūtiḥ विभूति meaning penetrating, manifestation of might, great power. Many wear this vibhūtiḥ or bhasma on the forehead as tilaka or identifying mark. This is considered auspicious as bhasma is considered bha+ sma. This bha implies bharjana भर्जन+ smara स्मर . What does mean ?
Bharjana is roasting, destroying and smara is to remember or loving recollection. When considered together, vibhūtiḥ on one's forehead , the person is inclined to the loving recollection of Śiva ( the Divine) that destroys all evils.
Hence Śiva is recognized as bhasmoddhūlita-vigraha, He that is of handsome form or shape ( vigraha विग्रह) , that is covered with (dhūlita धूलित sprinkled with) holy/sacred ash (bhasman भस्मन्).

This mark ,tilaka, is also called tripuṇḍra, or triple mark. This is called out in the Śiva mahāpurāṇa, Vidyeśvara saṃhitā . It tells us that the first line is Mahādeva, the second line is Maheśvara and the third line is Śiva i.e. the devatā of the three marks.

The Śiva mahāpurāṇa also calls out where this tripuṇḍra mark can be applied variously over the body e.g. 32 places, 16 places, 8 places or 5 places. I see many apply the ash to the 5 places i.e. (1) forehead, (2) arms, (1) heart, (1) navel = 5. It is also suggested that the mantra namaḥ śivāya be recited with the application of the tripuṇḍra.
Yet this purāṇa also mentions other mantra-s¹ for each varṇa ( class type) and those beyond varṇa and āśrama , the saṃyāmin ( some write sannyasin) the renunciate.


These 3 lines on the forehead carries the theme of 3, trika found throughout Śaivaism.

• We know Śiva as trilokeśā, the Ruler of the three worlds. Trilokeśā is tri+ lokeśā : tri is 3 + loka लोक is being applied as the worlds or levels of heaven (spiritual), earth (material), and the atmosphere or mid region + eśā is rooted in īś ईश् to rule, to be master of. Śiva is viewed as He who is Master/Lord (ī&#347 of the 3 (tri) worlds (loka).
• Another view of Śiva is that of tripurāntaka, the Destroyer of the three cities. Tripurāntakāya is composed of tripura which has two components tri or 3 + pura most know as a city, also a fortress , castle , town. Pura is another name for the body. tripura त्रिपुर is also built of gold , silver , and iron , in the sky , air , and earth. And antaka अन्तक bringing to an end , causing death. Śiva is viewed as the one that brings the end to the three levels ( three cities) , that brings an end to the body.
• We also know Siva as pinākin. Pinākin is the one armed with the bow or spear or pināka and this spear is Śiva's trident or triśula , the three-pronged spear. The triśula, tri (3) + su to possess supremacy; also to urge , impel , incite + la the act of taking or giving, sits on top of the daṇda, the stick, of the triśula.
• Some see this trika, 3 pronged, as Siva, Viṣṇu and Brahmā. Siva holding it as paramaśiva, or parameśvara.
• This trika is also considered 3 main śakti: parā, parāparā and aparā;
• This śakti is also considered icca śhakti, kriyā śhakti and jñāna śhakti - hence Śiva's rule or domain over these 3 and also can be used as tools to bring the aspirant to Him.
• Others may see this as Śiva, Rudra and Bhairava - this can be extended to the Trika philosophy of kaśmir śaivism and the āgamas (some call śāstras) and are grouped by these names: Śiva, Rudra and Bhairava and are considered parā, parāparā and aparā
• Some see this triśula as Śiva's rule over spiritual, mental and physical - that is the whole universe.
• Others see the triśula as the 3 guna and Śiva's rule over the guna

praṇām


words used above

• varṇa वर्ण- outward appearance; outward appearance , exterior , form , figure , shape , color ; Color suggests a class of people, race , species , kind , sort , character , nature , quality , property
• tripuṇḍra त्रिपुण्ड्र - a triple sectarial mark consisting of 3 lines or marks on the forehead , chest, arms, etc.
• other mantra-s such as mṛtyuñjaya.

 

[Gaura Priya]

Yajvan, thank you for your long response.

Perhaps you could answer my question then: why is it that women are not seen to wear the Shaiva tripundra, or the Vaishnava urdhva paundra?

Women are only called to kitchen duties, and wearing of bindi, which signifies a woman's belonging to her husband, as well as her marital vows towards her marriage. This mark, when worn out of desire, is very praiseworthy for her to be called pativrata; however, if it is worn out of familial pressure to keep with family ties, then it loses its spiritual potency.

ONLY in the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition insofar have I seen women free from this, and actually receive diksha from gurus, as well as wear the Vaishnava tilaka on the twelve parts of the body.

 

[Satsangi]

Yajvan, thank you for your long response.

Perhaps you could answer my question then: why is it that women are not seen to wear the Shaiva tripundra, or the Vaishnava urdhva paundra?

Women are only called to kitchen duties, and wearing of bindi, which signifies a woman's belonging to her husband, as well as her marital vows towards her marriage. This mark, when worn out of desire, is very praiseworthy for her to be called pativrata; however, if it is worn out of familial pressure to keep with family ties, then it loses its spiritual potency.

ONLY in the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition insofar have I seen women free from this, and actually receive diksha from gurus, as well as wear the Vaishnava tilaka on the twelve parts of the body.

So what is the point? How does this translate into attaining Moksha or Bhakti which is the goal of all the sects/religions?

Regards,

 

[Gaura Priya]

So what is the point? How does this translate into attaining Moksha or Bhakti which is the goal of all the sects/religions?

Regards,

At least in my Gaudiya Vaishnava past association, a woman has every right to be able to attain moksha without the aid of a husband. And we are told that in the spiritual world, everyone, both men and women wear tilaka to denote their devotion to the Lord.

A woman wearing a bindi, although there is some religious significance, has nothing to do with devotion to the Lord as much as devotion to one's husband. A Gaudiya Vaishnavi who wears tilaka expresses her seriousness in trying to serve the Lord, rather than pay any attention to the karma-kanda section of the Vedic Scriptures.

If wearing tilaka has so much importance to spiritual adherence in the Vaishnava, and perhaps Shaiva fold, then why does it not extend to women? What would happen if a woman would suddenly sport Sri Charanam in front of some orthodox Sri Vaishnavas?

 

[Satsangi]

At least in my Gaudiya Vaishnava past association, a woman has every right to be able to attain moksha without the aid of a husband. And we are told that in the spiritual world, everyone, both men and women wear tilaka to denote their devotion to the Lord.

A woman wearing a bindi, although there is some religious significance, has nothing to do with devotion to the Lord as much as devotion to one's husband. A Gaudiya Vaishnavi who wears tilaka expresses her seriousness in trying to serve the Lord, rather than pay any attention to the karma-kanda section of the Vedic Scriptures.

If wearing tilaka has so much importance to spiritual adherence in the Vaishnava, and perhaps Shaiva fold, then why does it not extend to women? What would happen if a woman would suddenly sport Sri Charanam in front of some orthodox Sri Vaishnavas?

As I said before women and men need not be so called "equals" everywhere. In fact both are different- biologically, physically, mentally, hormonally etc etc. Having said that, women most of the time are more religious than men and do not need any other formal encouraging like wearing tilaks- in my opinion.

The tilak serves two functions- it tells the others about your religious affiliation and secondly it stops you from doing some sins as it reminds you of who you follow. Thirdly, it is the command of the master who established the sect.

For women, fulfilling their Dharmas alone are said to grant liberation. But, it is not so for men. MAY be this is the basis; I can only guess.

Each and every master who established a sect came with their own marks and rules. They only know why. Just as Shaivas have different mark from Vaishnavas, the Gaudiya Vaishnava has different tradition than others. It does not mean anything else in my opinion- certainly a Shaiva woman can attain moksha without any marks onher head. There are tyaagi women saints who have contributed to the Vedas.

Regards,

 

[Gaura Priya]

As I said before women and men need not be so called "equals" everywhere. In fact both are different- biologically, physically, mentally, hormonally etc etc. Having said that, women most of the time are more religious than men and do not need any other formal encouraging like wearing tilaks- in my opinion.

For women, fulfilling their Dharmas alone are said to grant liberation. But, it is not so for men. MAY be this is the basis; I can only guess.

Each and every master who established a sect came with their own marks and rules. They only know why. Just as Shaivas have different mark from Vaishnavas, the Gaudiya Vaishnava has different tradition than others. It does not mean anything else in my opinion- certainly a Shaiva woman can attain moksha without any marks onher head. There are tyaagi women saints who have contributed to the Vedas.

I guess that is what makes Gaudiya Vaishnavism different than any other Dharma - moksha is part of karma-kanda, which is not to be focused on. Yes, it does say that a woman can receive moksha by fulfilling her Dharma - pati-dharma... however, it only awards liberation, or moksha, and can not alone grant bhakti to that woman.

I know what tilaka stands for... I wear it every day on the twelve parts of my body, whether with Gopi-chandan or with water only, but I do wear tilaka. I guess my contention is that I am trying to put a Western spin on a tradition that only sees that a woman's Dharma is pati-dharma: to worship her husband as her guru and god, and that alone is necessary, a tradition where only men can be gurus and can not continue disciplic lineages in the sampradayas.

While women and men are different physiologically, I am speaking of the spiritual, which only applies to the soul and not to the body. If we are to focus on spiritual life, it is this attitude that women must sit behind men that gets to me.

I am not a feminist; actually, I am anti-feminist *personally*, and also have been diagnosed with gender identity disorder - so my thoughts, feelings and neurological capacities work as if I were a woman mentally. I look to Sita-devi, Draupadi, Queen Kunti, and Bahinabai for inspiration.