Women and Vaishnavism?

[Poeticus]

I dedicate my 3000th posting to Lord Shri SadA-Shiva/Shri Rudra!

What of ShivJi ? In a western mind, he looks way more like a spirit, the ghost..............Who would like a half naked, snake infested hermit as a prince

Then, that Western mind is messed up.

PLEASE NOTE: I am aware not everyone is the same and therefore, I am not attempting to generalize anything, should it be on God or womens or sects. Also, I am not into the "Visnu vs Shiva" fight, and I am NOT attempting to prove superiority of one above another. This is not the purpose of this post, so please don't take offense.

Rubbish.

Shri Rudra is, Shrutically, non-defeatable, unconquerable, timeless, etc. He is lauded loudly Among the Assembly of Heroes as the Best!

And, this is coming from someone who is not even a Shaiva nor a Vaishnava.

Jus' sayin' 'da truth!

- - - -- - - - - - - - - - - --

P.s. MV ji Krsna means ''all atractive'' , and he does(attract) whether we think we are choosing or not ? actualy he is pulling the strings

What ever floats your boat, dear sister.

 

[Metempsychosis]

I dedicate my 3000th posting to Lord Shri SadA-Shiva/Shri Rudra!


Then, that Western mind is messed up.



Rubbish.

Shri Rudra is, Shrutically, non-defeatable, unconquerable, timeless, etc. He is lauded loudly Among the Assembly of Heroes as the Best!

And, this is coming from someone who is not even a Shaiva nor a Vaishnava.

Jus' sayin' 'da truth!

Shiva can withstand AIDs attack.

 

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

I dedicate my 3000th posting to Lord Shri SadA-Shiva/Shri Rudra!

Yes, Rudra is sadA Shiva. Two Vedics can agree so much with each other..by Vedic I don't mean in academic way. I am slowly coming to the conclusion that subjective truths also can take a universal form..of course not the one "thought out" by me or you, but by the Rsis of the Veda.

Shri Rudra is, Shrutically, non-defeatable, unconquerable, timeless, etc. He is lauded loudly Among the Assembly of Heroes as the Best!

And, this is coming from someone who is not even a Shaiva nor a Vaishnava.

Jus' sayin' 'da truth!

- - - -- - - - - - - - - - - --


What ever floats your boat, dear sister.

That is also true. Rudra has no shortage of finest apparels and accessories, that He can't make use of, and not look more dashy than anyone else in the town.

Shiva can withstand AIDs attack.

MV has not contracted AIDS yet. Otherwise he would be talking Vedanta by now

 

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

I am not going to address this in terms of Hinduism in India (which I could, but I have another perspective). I am going to address this in terms of the West.

From the earliest roots of Hindu expression and arrival of Hindu "preachers" from India into American in the late 1800s and early 1900s, there is no question that Krishna centric sects have been successful in the United States in particular, and in the "West" in general.

However, I do not necessarily believe this has to do with the romantic leelas of Krishna, or specifically because of Krishna.

I believe after almost 50 years of Hindu involvement in the "West" this has nothing to do with Krsna specifically, nor a predominant adherence by women in the "West".

Rather I believe it has to do with Bhakti Yoga. I am now totally convinced that for whatever reason, Bhakti Yoga is the "Best for the West", that it is the most successful Hindu path in America and also other nations in the West, even though some see it as a stepping stone or consider Jnana Yoga the "highest".

If a sect or Guru bespeaks of Bhakti Yoga, or devotional yoga, it does not matter if the Lord or Devi of that sect is Krishna, or Surya, or Muruga, or Durga, or Kali, or Hanuman, or Shiva, or Rama, or Krishna, or Indra, or Shani, or Ananta, or the other popular Devas or Devi in America, it will see an established sect take root and grow. The key is Bhakti.

As far as Krishna and women, I do not speak for reasons in India, but in America it does not matter if man or woman, the same Bhakti takes root. The same Bhakti if the sect centers on Kali, both from men and women equally. Or Surya. Or Hanuman. You see, this isn't about anything more than the fact that Bhakti Yoga is the Yoga that is the most successful in the West.

If you come from India to bring Hinduism to the West, you will be successful if you speak of this.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[Poeticus]

That is also true. Rudra has no shortage of finest apparels and accessories, that He can't make use of, and not look more dashy than anyone else in the town.

Remember the shiva tANDav stotram? rAvaNa goes into great detail describing the physical beauty of Shri Rudra. And, from the looks of it, the physical beauty of Shri Rudra is ever-blissful, unattainable, undying.

MV has not contracted AIDS yet. Otherwise he would be talking Vedanta by now

Let's not trivialize this horrid affection through jokes, por favor. So many Hindus and non-Hindus are affected by AIDS. My heart goes out to their suffering.

 

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

namaskaram :namaste

onr thing to consider , ...... Vaisnava's are the largest of the denominations

apparently ....according to a 2013 survey of world religions .....

• Vaishnavism: more than 555,000,000 adherents
• Shaivism: more than 198,000,000 adherents
• Shaktism: (number of adherents unknown)
• Smartism: (number of adherents unknown)
• The Darshanas: (number of adherents unknown)

so it simply means that in the west there is a higher liklihood of coming into contact with vaisnava's ......

This is not true. A Hindu there on the ground doesn't identify with any of these denominations. I can't imagine asking this ridiculous question to any Hindu that I know, "what sect do you belong to?"

It should be understood that internet forums are not reflective of the ground realities always. This Shiva vs. Vishnu, so visible on these forums, is at best reflective of a dead-and-gone power struggle between elites among the Hindus, but still ghosts being revisited on these forums mainly because of "scripture quoting" that use quotes from this bygone and irrelevant era.

 

[ratikala]

EDIT: This is how respect is shown amongst varying Hindus in Gujarat:

Motilal (a Vaishnav): Har Har Mahadev, dear Manubhai!!

Manubhai (a Shaiva): Jai Shri Krishna, dear Motilal!!

jai jai , and that is how it should be :namaste

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram KT ji :namaste

This is not true. A Hindu there on the ground doesn't identify with any of these denominations. I can't imagine asking this ridiculous question to any Hindu that I know, "what sect do you belong to?"

please note these are very approximate figures ,

more than .....


juat as previously explained I dont think they nececarily did a person to person poll

for example the hindu council of GB did send letters around asking individual temple details and amongst those details were how many adherants to our tradition ? we counted only initiates and commited regular members of the comunity , we didnt include lay visitors and less commited members .

It should be understood that internet forums are not reflective of the ground realities always. This Shiva vs. Vishnu, so visible on these forums, is at best reflective of a dead-and-gone power struggle between elites among the Hindus, but still ghosts being revisited on these forums mainly because of "scripture quoting" that use quotes from this bygone and irrelevant era.

with this I agree fully

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram

MV has not contracted AIDS yet. Otherwise he would be talking Vedanta by now

I had respect for you up untill this coment ....
MV ji gave the correct responce to your stupid remark .....

Let's not trivialize this horrid affection through jokes, por favor. So many Hindus and non-Hindus are affected by AIDS. My heart goes out to their suffering.

jai jai :namaste

 

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

I had respect for you up untill this coment ....
MV ji gave the correct responce to your stupid remark .....
jai jai :namaste

Ratikala ji

I was defending what MV stands for, because I could easily see and appreciate that (while others could not, imo).

And I think Anti-Religion also appreciated that post my rejoinder. As for you (because of vedantic predisposition), it is still difficult to get it I guess.

To underscore my point: "AIDS" remark (not started by me) is nothing close to insulting MV, as the "Vedanti" tag would be. But I do agree with you that MV ji's response was very mature and sensible and I appreciated that too.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram MV ji :namaste

Ratikala ji



To underscore my point: "AIDS" remark (not started by me) is nothing close to insulting MV, as the "Vedanti" tag would be. But I do agree with you that MV ji's response was very mature and sensible and I appreciated that too.

yes I know you didnot start it , but you stupidly repeated it .....

but why ? .... why does everyone delight in insulting eachother ...?

And I think Anti-Religion also appreciated that post my rejoinder. As for you (because of vedantic predisposition), it is still difficult to get it I guess.

Hmmm .... prehaps it would be safer to stop supposing who understands what .

I understand a lot of these in jokes I simply dont respond to anything I consider divisive .

 

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

I noticed this thread on "Women and Vaishnavism" has sort of turned into an opportunity to post various pictures of Devas or Devi, so I thought I would join in the fun:

Some say this is a picture of Krishna.

But when I look at it, I neither see a man or a woman. I have noticed bhaktas sometimes add such art as this over time. This is Caitanya. Some say Caitanya is Krishna. I am not going to go into detail as to the background of this picture. But, overtime, while not replacing Krishna art, those of the certain sects with roots back to Bengal and Orissa, add these type of pictures along with Krishna.

Now I think this may have some relevance to this discussion, women and Vaishnavism, and the ideation of women attacted romantically to Krishna. I see this same picture among some of the "hardcore" devotees, including women.

What is inside of this picture?

Some find it "scary".

But I do not. This is essential bhakti of such devotees. It also has to do with "association" with other fellow devotees.

Like events have been happening among devotees for a long time now. There may be a devotee lying in the street.

Or very sick, or starving. Or full of bloody sores, or leprosy. Or dying. Or even "dead".

And then another devotee comes. An odd thing happens.

The other devotee picks up the body of the fallen devotee. Then, the devotee holds the body of the fallen just up and outward slightly.

Then the devotee starts to dance with the fallen in arms.

This happens. It is probably happening right now, somewhere in India.

At that moment, there is no man and no woman. It has nothing to do with mundane romance.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

but why ? .... why does everyone delight in insulting eachother ...?

It is not so much "the delight in insulting another", we do it regularly to our friends just to reassure ourselves that their egos are kept in check by themselves, that they are kool with us or anybody else.

I have done this to many posters here, who I have genuine respect otherwise. And now I am stupidly giving away this secret.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Ha!So,is it more about physical looks?Shiva looks much more macho in that case.

Why do I let myself get involved in these things?

Yeah, there was once a time...'Oh my beloved Sri Krishna....if only you looked like Shiva, I wouldn't be in this fine mess...'

'Can I at least pretend you are Shiva, so we don't have to do this? No, I cannot? Okay, I see....'

I tried worshiping Lord Keshava, Lord Narasimha, Lord Jugganath...'nah, Krishna...this ain't working....you are just way too cute!'

The God I love is anything but 'cute'....why does it have to be this way....why?

I can understand why most women would prefer to worship Sri Krishna, but when it came to a God stealing butter and charming cowgirls vs a God lopping off Brahma's head and appearing as an endless pillar of Light that even Sri Vishnu couldn't find the end of....

Yeah, I know...nowhere is that written in the Vaishnava texts...just like nowhere is it written what certain Vaishnavas claim in the Shaiva texts...

So, it becomes 'horses for courses'....but in the 'masculinity' and 'virility' stakes, give me Lord Shiva over Mohini any day!

I love my Lord Shiva in every way....even as a 'man'.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Remember the shiva tANDav stotram? rAvaNa goes into great detail describing the physical beauty of Shri Rudra. And, from the looks of it, the physical beauty of Shri Rudra is ever-blissful, unattainable, undying.

Why do I love God in the form of Lord Shiva?

To me...and for always, God is 'mysterious'. God is 'esoteric'. God is something that just cannot be oversimplified or trivialised.

Unfortunately, when it comes to Shri Krishna, there's just no 'mystery' left anymore. Some see Sri Krishna Lila as being inspiring and promoting bhakti. Whilst I agree, I honestly don't care for such 'trivialities'.

It's just that beauty isn't really physical for me...and while that was a huge obstacle in my devotions towards Sri Krishna, I just felt like 'okay, all the preparatory work has been done...now for the true 'show'.

The Tandavam Stotra/Dance is incredible! and it is so awesome....so beautiful...indescribable...amazing!

While I am not a fan of 'popular culture', stuff like this gives me huge chills:

[youtube]2jTf36EZbDI[/youtube]
Veerbhadra The True Avenger - YouTube

Now, I wish Krishna did something like that, but He appears too 'tame' for me.

Om Tatpurushaya Vidmahe, Mahadevaya Dhimahi, Tanno Rudrah Prachodayat.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Sorry for the triple-post combo, but this one ends it.

Remember how I said I also could love Sri Krishna as 'separate' from Shiva?

There's only one form of Krishna I honestly 'felt' with all my heart - Hrishikesha.

Not the Lord that delivered the message of the Bhagavad Gita to Arjuna, but Arjuna's faithful and loyal charioteer.

This was the only way I could 'approach' Sri Krishna.

I often saw those 5 horses as having sensory symbols superimposed upon them...

The Lord is holding the reigns...saying 'control your mind and senses....just let me drive for a while...let go, let God....'

Yeah, I could honestly feel Krishna in that way....but even if I let him take the reigns and control my senses, it will all be for Shiva.

I still love Krishna anyway.

 

[Poeticus]

While I am not a fan of 'popular culture', stuff like this gives me huge chills:

[youtube]2jTf36EZbDI[/youtube]
Veerbhadra The True Avenger - YouTube

Om Tatpurushaya Vidmahe, Mahadevaya Dhimahi, Tanno Rudrah Prachodayat.

OM! Lord Shiva-Rudra! Your prowess knows no bounds! OM!

:namaste :namaste :namaste

Please accept a couple cyber-oblations, Lord Shiva-Rudra:

"What shall we sing to Shri Rudra, strong, most bounteous, excellently wise, that shall be dearest to His heart?" (R.V.1.43.1)

"Rudra, thee, shines in splendor like the Sun, refulgent as bright gold is He, the good,
the Best among the Gods!" (R.V.1.43.5)

 

[ratikala]

mamaskaram KT ji :namaste

It is not so much "the delight in insulting another", we do it regularly to our friends just to reassure ourselves that their egos are kept in check by themselves, that they are kool with us or anybody else.

Hmmm ....I dont get it .....and all while one person is insulting another so as to keep his ego in check , the ego of the one doing the insulting is getting out of hand , ....prehaps ???

but also there is a lot of insulting each others tradition going on at the moment , not that you are nececarily responcible for this , but once one starts it the bad habit rubs of on others ....this way manners in society are going down hill ,

prehaps I am old fasioned , I prefer humility , but even here this is mistaken for something else ....?

I have done this to many posters here, who I have genuine respect otherwise. And now I am stupidly giving away this secret.

Ah good so now your ego cant play this game

sorry now we have derailed this thread long enough .....

back to women in vaisnavism ????

 

[Poeticus]

Hmmm ....I dont get it .....and all while one person is insulting another so as to keep his ego in check , the ego of the one doing the insulting is getting out of hand , ....prehaps ???

The above reminds me of "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" quote.

Gandhi's quote doesn't make sense to me, since there would still be one person left with one eye.

 

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

mamaskaram KT ji :namaste

namaskaram Ratikala ji

Hmmm ....I dont get it .....and all while one person is insulting another so as to keep his ego in check , the ego of the one doing the insulting is getting out of hand , ....prehaps ???

Thats why we do it on rotation basis.

but also there is a lot of insulting each others tradition going on at the moment , not that you are nececarily responcible for this , but once one starts it the bad habit rubs of on others ....this way manners in society are going down hill ,

Boys turn out to be just fine, while girls have to find it out themselves. Some become like school-teachers.

Ah good so now your ego cant play this game

This is not a game, it is real. We can "play" (wrong word) it anytime.

The above reminds me of "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" quote.

Gandhi's quote doesn't make sense to me, since there would still be one person left with one eye.

When did M.G. said "eye for eye"?