Women = empowerment, men = sexist?

[freethinker44]

Wait. Are any of you fans of Salt N' Pepa?!

I don't dislike them, but I wouldn't say I'm a fan. I was using them as an example of acceptable sexism from females.

 

[Galen.Iksnudnard]

In the real world it is impractical to treat everyone that lives in a society exactly the same. For instance, we do not apply laws made for adults to children in most cases. We don't try soldiers who kill people on the battlefield for murder, and we don't pull ambulance drivers over for speeding. There are different circumstances and cases where things must be done on a case-by case basis.

In this case, we have to understand how privilege (in this situation, male privilege) colors and affects every facet of modern society. Until we understand the mechanism of privilege and its effects we understand that there in fact is no double standard at all.

 

[DallasApple]

One video is three women ogling men like sex objects and the other is three men ogling women like sex objects. Why is one a sexually liberating feminist anthem, and the other is a chauvinistic, sexist date-rape anthem? Aside from the nudity, they are not much different lyrically or visually.

No I do not see them as the same.Blurred lines is in reference to (usually a woman) saying no to sex and the (usually a male) deciding in HIS MIND that she doesn't "necessarily " mean no.. because she "blurred the lines" of consent by her actions.Example she went on a date with him..dressed all sexy ..flirted with him all night..went back to his place and was making out with him ..when she says "stop" its a "blurry line" FOR HIM because of the above and she seems to be enjoying the make out session ..she seems all hot and heavy...maybe she needs a little "push" to admit she really wants it because HES KNOWS she really wants it despite what she says.And he can help her out by not stopping until she admits hes right she really wanted it after all .

That's a LITTLE bit different than simple ogling a woman like a sex object.

 

[freethinker44]

No I do not see them as the same.Blurred lines is in reference to (usually a woman) saying no to sex and the (usually a male) deciding in HIS MIND that she doesn't "necessarily " mean no.. because she "blurred the lines" of consent by her actions.Example she went on a date with him..dressed all sexy ..flirted with him all night..went back to his place and was making out with him ..when she says "stop" its a "blurry line" FOR HIM because of the above and she seems to be enjoying the make out session ..she seems all hot and heavy...maybe she needs a little "push" to admit she really wants it because HES KNOWS she really wants it despite what she says.And he can help her out by not stopping until she admits hes right she really wanted it after all .

That's a LITTLE bit different than simple ogling a woman like a sex object.

I don't remember that at all from the song or the video, but there is another thread to discuss that, this thread is about things coming from men and women under the same context and meaning but received differently and how it hurts both men and women, but the focus here is more on men since this is the men's issues forum.

 

[Rakhel]

I do wish there were more studies on the role of sexism towards men.
I have found two so far. And a couple of articles but that's it. Sexism towards men is much like rape or domestic violence. If it happened to a man then he really must have wanted it or done something(hit her first) to deserve it.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It's empowering for women to act and be more like men. At least, this is one of the ironic implications that often seem to be communicated via feminism.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

It's empowering for women to act and be more like men. At least, this is one of the ironic implications that often seem to be communicated via feminism.

Yeah I don't get that.

 

[DallasApple]

I don't remember that at all from the song or the video, but there is another thread to discuss that, this thread is about things coming from men and women under the same context and meaning but received differently and how it hurts both men and women, but the focus here is more on men since this is the men's issues forum.

I understand.Its just if you are going to discuss a men's issue that is supposed to be a direct parallel (identical)to an issue women have? Your example is way off.You asked how they are any different.I think you even asked how blurred lines was seen as date rape acceptance?I think you said but for the nudity in the video of Blurred Lines they were the same lyrically and visually just gender reversed.I was only answering the questions you asked.

I guess if you don't even remember what the song entails maybe not use it as a direct parallel to another song and say they are no different.

 

[DallasApple]

Why is one a sexually liberating feminist anthem, and the other is a chauvinistic, sexist date-rape anthem?

Oh here it is.I was attempting to answer your question using your examples .

 

[DallasApple]

I don't remember that at all from the song or the video,

Sorry to go on.But the name of the song is blurred lines.If you understand what "blurred lines means' ..you will understand the difference between Salt and Peppa's song and the blurred lines one.

 

[Me Myself]

This is exactly why I didn't want to use a specific example. Whether that specific example was raping or robbing, it's irrelevant. The people in the bar didn't know her intentions, all they knew was that she put something in his drink. And for whatever reason she was doing it, most didn't say anything when it was done to the male but nearly all stepped in for the woman who had her drink drugged.

They did another one where a person was being verbally and physically abused in public and the one where the male was being abused, no one said anything and in fact some even silently cheered the female for abusing the male.

Women abusing men or being sexist is not only socially acceptable, but sometimes encouraged.

Yeah, I think this happens because regretably, society and people tend to deal with polarizations and blacks and whites. Sexism means being bad to women. Of course. Women are always "the" mistreated sex, so it is good when they take the control, you go girl! It cant be bad, because they are the underdog.

In the spiked drink case, as far as the people seeing that knew, the woman could have taken out the guy's kidneys and other relevant organs while he was out. They just flat out didn't give a ****

There is also a case where they make a man stealing from a hobo and a woman stealing from a hobo. In both cases, the one stealing was clearly of very high economic standing. With the man, people stood up and forcd him to give back the bill. With the women, people shrugged and said it was bad and some gave a bill of their pockets to the hobbo, but almost no one was as ascertive to the woman was they were to the man.

WWYD is very enlightening and interesting when they do this sort of things, changing races, sexes and conditions on their scenarios.

 

[freethinker44]

Yeah, I think this happens because regretably, society and people tend to deal with polarizations and blacks and whites. Sexism means being bad to women. Of course. Women are always "the" mistreated sex, so it is good when they take the control, you go girl! It cant be bad, because they are the underdog.

In the spiked drink case, as far as the people seeing that knew, the woman could have taken out the guy's kidneys and other relevant organs while he was out. They just flat out didn't give a ****

There is also a case where they make a man stealing from a hobo and a woman stealing from a hobo. In both cases, the one stealing was clearly of very high economic standing. With the man, people stood up and forcd him to give back the bill. With the women, people shrugged and said it was bad and some gave a bill of their pockets to the hobbo, but almost no one was as ascertive to the woman was they were to the man.

WWYD is very enlightening and interesting when they do this sort of things, changing races, sexes and conditions on their scenarios.

Right. And then the one where they were showing racism with a white and black man stealing a bike, then they added a white woman and not only did no one try to stop her, people stopped to help, no questions asked.

I have a personal story as an example.
Some backstory: my wife has a disability, so every couple months she needs several shots in her arm from the should to wrist and these shots leave some nasty bruises. Geez, the looks I get when people see her arm all bruised up like that. They just assume I am piece of crap abusive, even though that arm is obviously effected by her disability and it's not a stretch at all to think that they are caused by medical treatment, nope I must have beat her up. That's the only explanation.

On the other hand, my wife and I were "playing" around once and she accidentally kicked me in the face and gave me a black eye. Just to see what they would say, I told people my wife did it because she likes to hit when she gets mad. Not only were people not concerned, they laughed.

Not only is this a double standard, it's dangerous. And cruel.

BTW, I didn't leave people thinking my wife was abusive, I told them I was kidding after they were done making fun of me for getting beat up by my wife.

 

[DallasApple]

Women are always "the" mistreated sex,

I think "part" of the problem is (because this is complex its NOT black and white) ..is that many men do not even "agree" to what "mistreatment" is.Men are more likely to take an example of what a woman calls "sexual harassment' and say they would "like that'.They don't (many not ALL) even seem to understand that "rape" is 100% unconsentual unwanted sexual contact.The reason I say that is the countless men I have heard remark..I would LOVE to be "gang raped by a mob of hot women"..."I wish my wife would "sexually harass me" etc...

I think IN PART (again its not black and white) and again not "all men" would like to be more "pursued" by women including wives..and "rejected less" when they pursue..So ...its almost like ..'harassment' sounds good to me(for them its hot pursuit).."rape" sounds good because its having a woman being "overcome with passion " for them.Because they want more sexual attention and want to feel more desired.

So they don't "get" that a man can actually be the victim of harassment/ unwanted sexual attention or be "raped" in a "bad way".(by a woman that is)

Women are "getting that" message .."what guys wish for"..And its like "proving herself".She is NOT a "prude"..she is not "afraid to go for it"...and she is "every mans wet dream".By being "sexually aggressive".She may also have bought into the belief that is what her "main worth" to a man is.

Its twisted . But I think in part ...part of the problem..

 

[Me Myself]

Right. And then the one where they were showing racism with a white and black man stealing a bike, then they added a white woman and not only did no one try to stop her, people stopped to help, no questions asked.

I have a personal story as an example.
Some backstory: my wife has a disability, so every couple months she needs several shots in her arm from the should to wrist and these shots leave some nasty bruises. Geez, the looks I get when people see her arm all bruised up like that. They just assume I am piece of crap abusive, even though that arm is obviously effected by her disability and it's not a stretch at all to think that they are caused by medical treatment, nope I must have beat her up. That's the only explanation.

On the other hand, my wife and I were "playing" around once and she accidentally kicked me in the face and gave me a black eye. Just to see what they would say, I told people my wife did it because she likes to hit when she gets mad. Not only were people not concerned, they laughed.

Not only is this a double standard, it's dangerous. And cruel.

BTW, I didn't leave people thinking my wife was abusive, I told them I was kidding after they were done making fun of me for getting beat up by my wife.

The sad part is that that is the obvious response for most people. I am not even in the slightest surprised.

Even worst, the guy is justifiably scared that if he defends himself physically, she would be the one putting on a lawsuit and winning.

I think "part" of the problem is (because this is complex its NOT black and white) ..is that many men do not even "agree" to what "mistreatment" is.Men are more likely to take an example of what a woman calls "sexual harassment' and say they would "like that'.They don't (many not ALL) even seem to understand that "rape" is 100% unconsentual unwanted sexual contact.The reason I say that is the countless men I have heard remark..I would LOVE to be "gang raped by a mob of hot women"..."I wish my wife would "sexually harass me" etc...

I think IN PART (again its not black and white) and again not "all men" would like to be more "pursued" by women including wives..and "rejected less" when they pursue..So ...its almost like ..'harassment' sounds good to me(for them its hot pursuit).."rape" sounds good because its having a woman being "overcome with passion " for them.Because they want more sexual attention and want to feel more desired.

So they don't "get" that a man can actually be the victim of harassment/ unwanted sexual attention or be "raped" in a "bad way".(by a woman that is)

Women are "getting that" message .."what guys wish for"..And its like "proving herself".She is NOT a "prude"..she is not "afraid to go for it"...and she is "every mans wet dream".By being "sexually aggressive".She may also have bought into the belief that is what her "main worth" to a man is.

Its twisted . But I think in part ...part of the problem..

Maybe.

I dont know how common female to male rape is though. I would be surprised if it was very common.

I cant say I know about this cases.

I do would think on these cases the fact that other men would want to be that man makes it hard that "let the poor guy alone!" crosses their mind.

 

[DallasApple]

On the other hand, my wife and I were "playing" around once and she accidentally kicked me in the face and gave me a black eye. Just to see what they would say, I told people my wife did it because she likes to hit when she gets mad. Not only were people not concerned, they laughed.

Not only is this a double standard, it's dangerous. And cruel.

BTW, I didn't leave people thinking my wife was abusive, I told them I was kidding after they were done making fun of me for getting beat up by my wife.

For one second can you consider that they assumed you were joking.(which in fact you were ).Not they believed you were actually being given black eyes by your wife in anger and didn't care?

I have said similar to "people' over bruises and got the same laughs..Most people seriously being abused don't go around casually talking about it.

 

[Me Myself]

For one second can you consider that they assumed you were joking.(which in fact you were ).Not they believed you were actually being given black eyes by your wife in anger and didn't care?

I have said similar to "people' over bruises and got the same laughs..Most people seriously being abused don't go around casually talking about it.

I regularly take taxis, and this issue has come forth more than once.

Without fail, they always laugh when it comes to the man being abused, while their reactions towards women abuse vary. (from horrible to something like "its their fault" attitude. )

 

[DallasApple]

I dont know how common female to male rape is though. I would be surprised if it was very common.

I don't think it is.

I do however think "pressure on a guy to perform" for a sexually aggressive woman..could be a "rising' and more and more common problem now.Even with teenagers.Some women are getting more and more "desensitized" and selfish.

 

[DallasApple]

Without fail, they always laugh when it comes to the man being abused, while their reactions towards women abuse vary. (from horrible to something like "its their fault" attitude. )

Well that's sick.Kind of like laughing your head off when someone falls down and gets hurt.In general maybe "people" are becoming more callous.I hope not.

 

[Me Myself]

I don't think it is.

I do however think "pressure to perform" for a sexually aggressive woman..could be a "rising' and more and more common problem now.Even with teenagers.Some women are getting more and more "desensitized" and selfish.

I would expect it to become more common actually, yes.

A lot of it as the **** shaming loses some power. Then hopefully to go down again.

I truly think we will find a lot more of balance than we have today.

 

[DallasApple]

I would expect it to become more common actually, yes.

A lot of it as the **** shaming loses some power. Then hopefully to go down again.

I truly think we will find a lot more of balance than we have today.

I edited my post..I mean "pressure on a male to perform"