Women Liberating Themselves from Liberation

[Alceste]

Thoughts?

First thought: If they believe women should shut up and stay at home, why don't they shut up and stay at home?

Second thought:

 

[Man of Faith]

Good for them, they are affirming that Jesus is Lord of all by affirming that the man is the head of the woman. I don't know of any more loving relationship than one built on Christ. Most women don't mind men being the head of the household if they will do the right thing, which is love them as they love themselves, like the Bible teaches. But some men want to be lazy and make the woman do everything even make decisions, take the kids to church alone, etc... Men and women are different in many ways and were created that way for a reason. They compliment each other and work well together, as long as love is there.

I take my God given headship of the household seriously and my wife is supportive of that. I listen to her suggestions but ultimately she lets me make the hard or tough decisions and has no problem with it because she knows I love her, don't mistreat her and try not to make any decision that will be harmful to her or our family.

BTW, being the head of the household dosen't mean being a tyrant, or ruler.

 

[gnomon]

The article only mentions imparting their values to their children, which parents would do anyway.


I looked, and I don't see that in the article. It could be there, but not stated. It does state that these women feel that feminism "is a multistage process that begins with feminism’s insistence on self-definition and self-determination, and ends with feminism’s declaration that women can interpret and decide for themselves who or what God is. . ."

In other words, they feel society's insistence on feminism is forcing them into a mold that includes defining for them what "God" is (self-defined).

I see.

I jumped over to here:
True Woman | Sign the Manifesto
and read the manifesto.

We can conclude that if they believe that men and women are designed by God and that marriage is only proper between a man and a woman that their worldview model does not include those individuals who are not like them. They will teach this to their children.

That and their site is riddled with statements regarding that homosexuals can change, help from reformed lesbians........here:

That’s exactly what Satan has done. He continues to radically attempt and radically redefine the family. I’m sure you just heard today that Connecticut has decided it is now the next state in the Union to accept same-sex marriage.

It’s a tsunami beloved. It’s a tsunami. God has called us for such a time as this. I will sometimes hear women who have made a profession of faith in Christ Jesus say, “Well, I’m not opposed to that. Who somebody else marries doesn’t have an impact on my life. Why would I begrudge somebody to love somebody that they love? What impact does that have?”

Whoa! Stop! Time! This has nothing to do with you or me. This has everything to do with Him. How did He define marriage? You see, this is the wonderful thing. It doesn’t matter about our being political. It’s a matter of our being obedient.

True Woman | Janet Parshall
Just start from there and read it.

Yes parents impart their values to their children.

And some people have really poor and uneducated values.

 

[Willamena]

it depends on what you mean by "inherently secular". . . Or do you mean that feminism is secular in that the ideas of feminism do not need religion and are separate from religion? In which case i would say yes feminism is inherently secular.

Good question; the latter. But too, it speaks to the philosophies that underlie both ideologies.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Personally, not at all
But for many, it can be seen like this - since it's going against the status quo of traditional, patriarchal religious thought

have to agree with this

It is only secular, ie seperate from religion for certain people

For the group mentioned they take scripture literally....
Like the sentiment I mentioned, Adam came first thus women are lesser, the penis makes them head of the house hold

Now I understand many women want their man to be thier rock
Other prefer an equal partner

Taken to its extreme it can be taken that men become emasculated, and gender roles are gone. Or it can be that women obey their men....to the point up to abuse. Serving, subserviance.

There are always shades of gray. it is when there is only black and white that there are problems.

"Deprive man of his life lie and you rob him of his happiness." ~ Henrik Ibsen

 

[Willamena]

We can conclude that if they believe that men and women are designed by God and that marriage is only proper between a man and a woman that their worldview model does not include those individuals who are not like them. They will teach this to their children.

But isn't that true of the majority of parents --that their worldview model will not include those who are not like them, and that they will teach it to their children? Even those who consider themselves to be the open-minded ones will do this.

True Woman | Janet Parshall
Just start from there and read it.

Yes parents impart their values to their children.

And some people have really poor and uneducated values.

No argument, there. I'll read it later, have to get back to work.

 

[TheKnight]

Signers affirm their belief that women and men were designed to reflect God in “complementary and distinct ways”;

I see no problem with that. Men and women are different in almost every single way. To say that they're the same, as many people have and do, is just plain foolish.

Men and women are both valuable, but they are NOT the same. Some things men are better at than women and vice versa.

 

[Mr Cheese]

I see no problem with that. Men and women are different in almost every single way. To say that they're the same, as many people have and do, is just plain foolish.

Men and women are both valuable, but they are NOT the same. Some things men are better at than women and vice versa.

how are men and women so different?

 

[Wandered Off]

To say that they're the same, as many people have and do, is just plain foolish.

No more foolish than saying one's genitalia should determine leadership roles.

 

[Heneni]

No more foolish than saying one's genitalia should determine leadership roles.

I agree that genitalia has nothing to do with leadership..... outside of the marriage or inside the marriage. Christian men are able to not think with their genitalia and therefore dont have to rule with it either.

But how the world thinks a marriage should work and how god instituted it, is two different things. I'm not saying that if god has made the man the head of the women that everybody else is going to adhere to that. Its just not going to happen. But a christian women and man's marriage cannot function otherwise. I dont see how it can please god if the women has to take the leadership role.

 

[TheKnight]

how are men and women so different?

Physically they are different. I think that the differences physically are obvious.

Emotionally they are different. I think that this too is quite obvious.

In capability they are different. There are things that men do better than women (like manual labor) and things that women do better than men (like raising children).

Equality does not necessitate the elimination of differences, but instead it necessitates that we respect and value our differences.

No more foolish than saying one's genitalia should determine leadership roles.

I said nothing about leadership roles. I simply noted that men and women are different.

That being said, having read their manifesto, I cannot say that I agree with all of it. But I do believe that their recognition of the role of women as opposed to the role of men is valuable. More valuable than the current cultural outlook on the roles of men and women.

I believe that the primary role and focus of a woman should be the home. Developing a peaceful home, a home in which children can be successfully raised. While the primary role of the man is to provide for the family. This is a natural thing IMO, something that, if our society were to recognize, would make our society better.

 

[gnomon]

But isn't that true of the majority of parents --that their worldview model will not include those who are not like them, and that they will teach it to their children? Even those who consider themselves to be the open-minded ones will do this.


No argument, there. I'll read it later, have to get back to work.

Yeah, it's true of all parents. That's why we hope for an increase in shared ideas and critical thinking. So that we can pull ourselves out of antiquated concepts that do not match the world we observe. None of us will be perfect but that's no reason to call out those who are striving for less.

Their website is a depressing read. And I'm currently drawn to it in a sick fascination. Mary Kassian and Susan Hunt have books out there available to peruse online. It's not outright scary and I'm sure well meaning and in their view compassionate. It's the ignorance on certain issues, especially for people who have a world of information at their fingertips and in their communities, that I find disturbing.

 

[Mr Cheese]

I agree that genitalia has nothing to do with leadership..... outside of the marriage or inside the marriage. Christian men are able to not think with their genitalia and therefore dont have to rule with it either.

But how the world thinks a marriage should work and how god instituted it, is two different things. I'm not saying that if god has made the man the head of the women that everybody else is going to adhere to that. Its just not going to happen. But a christian women and man's marriage cannot function otherwise. I dont see how it can please god if the women has to take the leadership role.

What are you basing your ideas that Christian men are heads while women are secondary, upon....

please cite some ideas, scripture whatever....

 

[Sunstone]

Men and women are different in almost every single way. To say that they're the same, as many people have and do, is just plain foolish.

I seriously doubt you can substantiate such a wild and unreasonable claim.

 

[Heneni]

What are you basing your ideas that Christian men are heads while women are secondary, upon....

please cite some ideas, scripture whatever....

You are only an abortion......:kissbette:

I'll do my best.

PS:......so you dont mind me using the bible do ya?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Physically they are different. I think that the differences physically are obvious.

Emotionally they are different. I think that this too is quite obvious.

In capability they are different. There are things that men do better than women (like manual labor) and things that women do better than men (like raising children).

.

men and women arent physically all that different, how do you think sex changes occur so easily...?

Emointionally? Oh please.... The Ancient Greeks thought women werent capable of rational thought.... Your assertion is largely as weak....

Manual labor and raising kids....
Well men dont lactate
Women have a tough time urinating in urinals

So maybe you're right on that one

 

[Mr Cheese]

You are only an abortion......:kissbette:

I'll do my best.

PS:......so you dont mind me using the bible do ya?

ha ha...

no, I want you to use the bible or whatever you want...
I am interested in your views...

 

[Mr Cheese]

the difference between men and women of course is that women like shoes, like men like beer

 

[Sunstone]

...at the True Woman Conference... Thoughts?

Apparently, there were not many thoughts at the True Woman Conference.

 

[gnomon]

I see no problem with that. Men and women are different in almost every single way. To say that they're the same, as many people have and do, is just plain foolish.

Men and women are both valuable, but they are NOT the same. Some things men are better at than women and vice versa.

What are those differences?
Are those differences truly substantial?

Males and females are inherently different in that one is described by having testes and the other ovaries and a uterus. The essential primary difference.

Men and women are defined as social extensions of male and female known as gender.

An individual born with undescended testes, a vagina and no uterus is defined basically how they define themselves. Unfortunately they do not match any definition from those who follow Abraham.

Observations of a difference in the male brain v. the female brain while informative may also lead us to find differences in the male brain v. another male brain. In other words, a male individual whose brain shows functionality on average closer to that of the female brain. This would most likely be due to hormonal development.

It's about expanding our concept of individual identity, social gender construction and individual sexual development. All of which are denied by those described in the article from the OP and their own website. They are retreating to absolutist definitions on the authority of scripture.

Is their anyway to take such scriptural concepts and finding common ground with a greater understanding of human development that does not match traditional concepts?

Another thing to note, that they are also basically asserting that women's lives were so much better prior to the feminist movement. I don't think they make a very good argument for that.