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Women Liberating Themselves from Liberation

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Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Some people prefer to be submissive and some prefer to be "in charge." So what? Submission itself is not a bad thing - it depends totally on the situation. Sometimes it's appropriate and even laudable to be submissive.

I think the word has gotten a bad rap lately.
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Some people prefer to be submissive and some prefer to be "in charge." So what? Submission itself is not a bad thing - it depends totally on the situation. Sometimes it's appropriate and even laudable to be submissive.

I think the word has gotten a bad rap lately.


Submission isnt wrong....giving is never wrong

The OP however, from my reading, discussed a fundamental christian point of view that women are secondary, and used doctrine to back up this point of view and cited a "natural order" of things.....

Now my girl friend whines that I have to land that big job soon, so she can stay home and make soup.... she likes being domestic. But believe me, it is not because she thinks men are superior. The language of the OP was not overtly clear in its agenda, but I think if one compares it with fundamental christian ideas I think it is a thinly veiled "rant" to discuss the agenda of fundamental christians, where men are superior, women are lesser: due to Adam coming first, Eve being created FOR Adam and other such ideas like Paul stating Men are the head of the household.... It is not clear that this is the agenda, but I think it is fairly certain that the OP is essentially yet another fundamentalist cry to return to a supposed "better days" or perfect time, which never existed. Like McCarthy's 50's.... (can we say J Edgar Hoover and women's panties...please?)

As I have said for years though, fundamentalism, of ANY kind, is the death of thought....
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Here's another version of this (and by the way, I thought your remark about Willamena being sarcastic was sort of a moot point in light of this previous thread from you, which is absolutely dripping in the stuff):

"In order for me to put myself in the shoes of a feminist (as defined by the actions of contemporary "feminists" who have, by the way, totally redefined, in the worst sense of the word, the true meaning of feminism), I must temporarily imagine I am completely ignorant as to what true feminism means, and nevertheless willing to proclaim loud and proud my conviction that it is single-handedly responsible for all the terrific things in the world of women today - third trimester abortion on demand, babies raised from 6 weeks on in crowded daycares, single moms who file for no fault divorce because their husbands "verbally abused" them by pointing out the fact that they are overweight, bitter, frigid, and put their career before their marriage, hectic schedules that include a 10 hour work day, an hour commute, fast food dinners eaten in the car or, on a good day, dinner at home in front of the tv watching the 10 pm news, latchkey kids, women support groups that disparage and undermine the true qualities of men, sexual freedom that results in STDs, unwanted pregnancies, disdain from our teenage daughters as they watch us act like whores, and the creeping suspicion that somehow when we asked for it all, we got it all...and all includes some things we didn't really bargain for.

To accomplish this feat, I must be willing to imagine that when I listen to my college professors and the leaders of my local feminazi groups, I am getting a 100 % accurate, clear-eyed, realistic view of what real life is like, and how it has changed. I must suspend my capacity for critical thinking, stamp out my considerable self-hatred, embrace infantile feelings of entitlement, let my aggressive and frustrated sexual fantasies run rampant over every aspect of my life, and above all, I must blame my personal feelings of failure and inadequacy on stronger, braver, more feminine, more secure, happier, more honorable, more capable, more intelligent, more versatile more honest women than myself. If I do all of the above, then I have no problem seeing the world through their eyes.

However, intense feelings of neurosis, belligerent, condescending ignorance and repressed self-loathing is an uncomfortable state to maintain. You get around that problem by pretending that less "feminist minded" women are actually deeply philosophical and well-informed. I get around it by saying "Well, what a bunch of intolerable, backwards morons". Both of us are equally subjective, and both of us have taken a stab at seeing through their eyes. I simply reject their POV while you attempt to embrace and justify it."

Now - that's a bit over the top, I admit it, and of course I wouldn't throw that sort of garbage at anyone in any seriousness. But if you're offended by such a ridiculous rant, what you're feeling NOW is "walking a mile in the other's shoes."

I'm not offended by it. We simply disagree on a few points. Mainly, that third wave feminism is still feminism, and that the long history of effort to secure the right to property, suffrage, divorce and self-sufficiency are also feminism.

If you, like the True Women, are under the enormous misapprehension that feminism began in 1950 and ended in 1980, I can see how the above might seem reasonable to you.

Kathryn, all through this thread you've been defending what you consider to be "traditional values" - I've got no issues with that. My issues are with their criticism of feminism. And, yes, in order to see feminism the way they do I must temporarily become ignorant and suspend my capacity for critical thinking. And in order to have a motive to attack "liberated women" and the women who liberated them en masse the way they do, I need to imagine I have some unresolved issues. Come on, they're blaming pornography on feminists! Do you think that's rational and well-adjusted? If so, maybe you can explain how that works, because I'm not seeing it.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
By the way, two things to add to the above, one: <bla bla> something </bla bla> is an html reference. The tags on either side of the "something" refer to how the thing in between is meant to be taken. Kind of Douglas Adams of me - sorry for the obscure pop culture.

Second thing: I didn't just pull that rant out of my arse, you know. I read the material available on their website extensively, and also read up extensively on what "feminism" actually is, which does not appear to be the case for Willamena or yourself.
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Second thing: I didn't just pull that rant out of my arse, you know. I read the material available on their website extensively, and also read up extensively on what "feminism" actually is, which does not appear to be the case for Willamena or yourself.

Everyone knows feminism promotes hairy arm pits
Angry man hating women
And the destruction of all Christianity

Feminism is in fact thinly veiled satanism

“For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft...” —1st Samuel 15:23

America's churches, marriages and homes are being destroyed by the vile feminist agenda. Women are now filing for divorce at TWICE the rate of men because of feminism. A godly man is a threat to the feminist's agenda, because he believes that a woman's place is still in the home—baking cookies, knitting, and caring for the children (1st Timothy 5:14). Of course, hen pecked husbands and sissies are exempt.
Feminism is a lie of the Devil. In Genesis 3:6 we learn that Eve had convinced herself with three good reasons to sin. "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat." Notice carefully the three things which Eve said:
  1. Eve saw "that the tree was good for food."
  2. Eve saw "that it was pleasant to the eyes."
  3. Eve saw that it was "a tree to be desired to make one wise."
Oh, the deceitfulness of sin! The Devil is a beautiful liar. Eve had convinced herself with Satan's help that disobeying God was going to be the greatest thing she ever did. It turned out to be the worst day of her life.

Biblically, a Woman's Place in Still in the Home
"I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. For some are already turned aside after Satan." —1st Timothy 5:14
Have you TURNED ASIDE AFTER SATAN? Feminism is sin. It is wrong because it is a rebellion against authority. Feminism is not about women's rights, nor equality, it's about rebellion against God's Word. What feminists are really saying is, "We don't believe the Bible is God's Word and we absolutely REFUSE to allow men to have exclusive authority." Thus, women preachers demand EQUALITY in the leadership of the church. Wives demand EQUALITY in the leadership of the home. This is exactly what Lucifer said in Isaiah 14:14...
"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."
Satan didn't want to be greater than God, he simply wanted EQUALITY in authority. Feminism is diametrically opposed to the Word of God. If more Christian women truly understood what feminism is, and is not, then the divorce rate amongst Christians wouldn't be equal with that of the heathen world. Feminism is a denial of the Word of God, specifically the Bible's strict teaching that women are prohibited from usurping authority over men, whether it be in the church (1st Timothy 2:12) or in the home (1st Peter 3:1).
In the photo at the beginning of this article you see Whoopi Goldberg (real name: Caryn Elaine Johnson), who is an open homosexual. Feminists speak of “honor,” but there is no true honor among lesbians and baby-killers. Proverb 26:1, "As snow in summer, and as rain in harvest, so honour is not seemly for a fool." Feminism is synonymous with lesbianism and abortion. Civil rights are one thing, sinful rights are another. Feminism is of the Devil.
It is tragic that an apostate Southern Baptist Church in Tennessee called an ordained lesbian to be their associate pastor This is what happens when people disobey the Scriptures. Here's a lesbian minister, Carter Heyward, who desires to make abortion a sacrament in the church. We were much better off as a nation when women stayed in the kitchen, instead of entering the sacred pulpit. The great need of the hour is godly wives and mothers. A lot of women today feel that they could never be a homemaker, but you can be that woman. Like anything else, it starts with desire.

Feminism is Evil!

angry_old_woman.jpg


The true face of feminism!

 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
I do not think women should be submissive to men or vice versa (all relationships should be 50/50 imho), UNLESS they desire to be that way. It is every woman's right to choose the lifestyle she wishes to live. It is wrong for anyone, even Feminist to belittle any women who wants to live this way, as long as they have chosen that lifestyle for themselves.

But this manifesto is not saying "let us live this odd way if it is our personal preference." What it is saying is, "This is the Godly, right way for all women to live." They're the ones trying to impose inequality on all.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
Thank you Mr Cheese, I can not frubal you again, but it is an enormous help to me to have posted the basic ideology Willamena and Kathryn have been defending all this time. :p
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Thank you Mr Cheese, I can not frubal you again, but it is an enormous help to me to have posted the basic ideology Willamena and Kathryn have been defending all this time. :p

You're welcome...

:p

In reality, most women can't even change a tire without the help of a man. No wonder today's girls are so confused about life—they're being brainwashed by a bunch of God-hating feminists and lesbians who despise Biblical teachings...

Feminism is Evil!
 

Alceste

Vagabond
You're welcome...

:p

In reality, most women can't even change a tire without the help of a man. No wonder today's girls are so confused about life—they're being brainwashed by a bunch of God-hating feminists and lesbians who despise Biblical teachings...

Feminism is Evil!

Well, as long as you have no desire to enact legislation prohibiting me from changing my own tires, I have absolutely no problem with your opinion. :D
 

Alceste

Vagabond
*raises hand*

You're a failure as a feminist mom, then - your daughter seems exceptionally well-adjusted, clear-thinking, informed, open-minded and satisfied, from what I gather from the interview on your blog. If you'd done your job right she'd be a man-hating battle-axe filled with anger, confusion, hate and despair. Are you sure you didn't accidentally raise her with Biblical values?
 
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