Women's clothing and men gawking

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm noticing that many men have this view that women wearing fetching clothing want males to stare at them and that it's hypocritical for the woman to complain. I don't understand this view. It's very sexist, towards both men and women. It's sexist towards women because it doesn't allow for the possibility that the woman is simply wearing what she likes or is comfortable for herself, and not for men, especially strangers. It makes what women do about a man, ignoring that women's lives don't revolve around men. It also implies male ownership of her body since it's viewed as negative if the woman complains.

It's sexist towards men as it portrays men as lustful beasts who can't control themselves and who automatically turn into leering, catcalling creeps when an attractive woman is nearby (notice it's usually hetero males saying such things). So it ignores that men can have self-control. There's ways to enjoy the beauty of another without being rude and while being subtle. Lately I've been enjoying looking at the sexy college guys with nice butts in my area but they'd never know I was looking and I wouldn't want them to know (unless we were in a gay club or bar where that's more acceptable).

To me, it comes down to a culture that says women can display sexuality and physical allure, but always at a price and with consequences. It's similar to blaming women's sexual assault on what they may have been wearing.

I personally don't assume that someone got dressed in the morning with me in mind. Even if a person is butt naked, it's still incumbent on everyone else to be respectful and mature. I mean, I'm sure we've all seen human nudity before, right? If it drives you that crazy, you have a problem.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I'm noticing that many men have this view that women wearing fetching clothing want males to stare at them and that it's hypocritical for the woman to complain. I don't understand this view. It's very sexist, towards both men and women. It's sexist towards women because it doesn't allow for the possibility that the woman is simply wearing what she likes or is comfortable for herself, and not for men, especially strangers. It makes what women do about a man, ignoring that women's lives don't revolve around men. It also implies male ownership of her body since it's viewed as negative if the woman complains.

It's sexist towards men as it portrays men as lustful beasts who can't control themselves and who automatically turn into leering, catcalling creeps when an attractive woman is nearby (notice it's usually hetero males saying such things). So it ignores that men can have self-control. There's ways to enjoy the beauty of another without being rude and while being subtle. Lately I've been enjoying looking at the sexy college guys with nice butts in my area but they'd never know I was looking and I wouldn't want them to know (unless we were in a gay club or bar where that's more acceptable).

To me, it comes down to a culture that says women can display sexuality and physical allure, but always at a price and with consequences. It's similar to blaming women's sexual assault on what they may have been wearing.

I personally don't assume that someone got dressed in the morning with me in mind. Even if a person is butt naked, it's still incumbent on everyone else to be respectful and mature. I mean, I'm sure we've all seen human nudity before, right? If it drives you that crazy, you have a problem.

My opinion is that its natural to react this way and akin to a paranoia. Some men may get something like a hallucinatory effect, but I think we can almost always restrain ourselves rationally. Yes, I know that women aren't walking around for my sake just so that I will watch them, but momentarily I doubt this sometimes. Its similar to when there's a picture with a face on it. You just might feel like that picture is looking at you, even though you know it can't be doing that.

 

[Sunstone]

Growing up, my mother taught me that I should feel no guilt to look at a woman and appreciate her beauty, but that it was not right to stare or gawk. Today, we might describe the latter as reducing women to objects.

It has always been my take on it that women who dress to show off their beauty or sexiness to its best advantage want to be appreciated or admired, but certainly not 'objectified'.

 

[BSM1]

Men are visual creatures by nature. If a woman chooses to show it, then she can expect to be viewed. Sorry.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Growing up, my mother taught me that I should feel no guilt to look at a woman and appreciate her beauty, but that it was not right to stare or gawk. Today, we might describe the latter as reducing women to objects.

Exactly. That's how I view it, too. I especially hate when men make a scene over it, like catcalling from across the street.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

My opinion is that its natural to react this way and akin to a paranoia. Some men may get something like a hallucinatory effect, but I think we can almost always restrain ourselves rationally. Yes, I know that women aren't walking around for my sake just so that I will watch them, but momentarily I doubt this sometimes. Its similar to when there's a picture with a face on it. You just might feel like that picture is looking at you, even though you know it can't be doing that.

I have never felt that way, honestly, and don't understand that thinking.

 

[exchemist]

I'm noticing that many men have this view that women wearing fetching clothing want males to stare at them and that it's hypocritical for the woman to complain. I don't understand this view. It's very sexist, towards both men and women. It's sexist towards women because it doesn't allow for the possibility that the woman is simply wearing what she likes or is comfortable for herself, and not for men, especially strangers. It makes what women do about a man, ignoring that women's lives don't revolve around men. It also implies male ownership of her body since it's viewed as negative if the woman complains.

It's sexist towards men as it portrays men as lustful beasts who can't control themselves and who automatically turn into leering, catcalling creeps when an attractive woman is nearby (notice it's usually hetero males saying such things). So it ignores that men can have self-control. There's ways to enjoy the beauty of another without being rude and while being subtle. Lately I've been enjoying looking at the sexy college guys with nice butts in my area but they'd never know I was looking and I wouldn't want them to know (unless we were in a gay club or bar where that's more acceptable).

To me, it comes down to a culture that says women can display sexuality and physical allure, but always at a price and with consequences. It's similar to blaming women's sexual assault on what they may have been wearing.

I personally don't assume that someone got dressed in the morning with me in mind. Even if a person is butt naked, it's still incumbent on everyone else to be respectful and mature. I mean, I'm sure we've all seen human nudity before, right? If it drives you that crazy, you have a problem.

I agree with most of what you say, but a sexily dressed woman will always attract my gaze, even if I do my best not to let it show, for fear of disturbing her.

Happily, I am now so old (at 66) that women don't see me as sexually threatening, so I find I can often just grin at them when this happens and get a smile in return.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Men are visual creatures by nature. If a woman chooses to show it, then she can expect to be viewed. Sorry.

But there's a difference between noticing and appreciating and gawking and leering.

 

[Revoltingest]

Men are visual creatures by nature. If a woman chooses to show it, then she can expect to be viewed. Sorry.

I've known women who gawk too.
It seems a very human thing to do.
I recommend subtlety though.
(I'm a certified progressive, you know.)

 

[BSM1]

But there's a difference between noticing and appreciating and gawking and leering.

Agreed. Buy not everyone is as enlightened as you and I. Unfortunately.

 

[BSM1]

I've known women who gawk too.
It seems a very human thing to do.
I recommend subtlety though.
(I'm a certified progressive, you know.)

Granted, but my gawking comes from some deep seated, atavistic trigger, whereas (IMHO) women openly gawking is a phenomena of our progressive society. Not that this is a bad thing, but there are many times I have felt naked and used just walking down the street.

 

[metis]

A psychological study I read about maybe two decades ago, had it that a woman dressed in somewhat "revealing clothes" is more sexually arousing that a woman who is completely naked.

It seems that "hide & seek" works best.

 

[PureX]

Humans are very complicated beings, with multiple simultaneous motives, perceptions, and goals. Many women (and men) dress to be sexually "provocative", and yet do not do so with the conscious intention of stirring up any sort of aggressive sexual response. And should actually find themselves on the receiving end of an aggressive sexual response will be both please AND annoyed by it, simultaneously.

The point is that we humans are not one-dimensional entities. We are a complex and often inherently contradictory phenomenon. And all the more so when engage in social interactions with other highly complex, inherently contradictory, beings.

There are no singular or easily understood answers to the contention that results.

 

[Piculet]

But there's a difference between noticing and appreciating and gawking and leering.

Yes and I think you're not differentiating between them sufficiently.
I would say, women want to be looked at (generally speaking)
You imply, women don't want to be gawked at.

They're different things. You talk as though they were the same and conclude, women don't like to be looked at.

 

[Piculet]

somewhat "revealing clothes" is more sexually arousing that a woman who is completely naked.

Same thing really. And you even explained how.

 

[Piculet]

Granted, but my gawking comes from some deep seated, atavistic trigger, whereas (IMHO) women openly gawking is a phenomena of our progressive society. Not that this is a bad thing, but there are many times I have felt naked and used just walking down the street.

Women can gawk at each other quite freely.

 

[Sunstone]

I don't think it's asking too much of the vast majority of men not to stare or gawk at women, even when they dress sexy. Sure, some men are emotionally immature or undisciplined and apparently cannot help themselves. But I think in most instances when a man stares or gawks at a woman it's because he's trying to dominate her, humiliate her, or was just raised without manners -- not because he's emotionally weak or undisciplined.

 

[Altfish]

I'm noticing that many men have this view that women wearing fetching clothing want males to stare at them and that it's hypocritical for the woman to complain. I don't understand this view. It's very sexist, towards both men and women. It's sexist towards women because it doesn't allow for the possibility that the woman is simply wearing what she likes or is comfortable for herself, and not for men, especially strangers. It makes what women do about a man, ignoring that women's lives don't revolve around men. It also implies male ownership of her body since it's viewed as negative if the woman complains.

It's sexist towards men as it portrays men as lustful beasts who can't control themselves and who automatically turn into leering, catcalling creeps when an attractive woman is nearby (notice it's usually hetero males saying such things). So it ignores that men can have self-control. There's ways to enjoy the beauty of another without being rude and while being subtle. Lately I've been enjoying looking at the sexy college guys with nice butts in my area but they'd never know I was looking and I wouldn't want them to know (unless we were in a gay club or bar where that's more acceptable).

To me, it comes down to a culture that says women can display sexuality and physical allure, but always at a price and with consequences. It's similar to blaming women's sexual assault on what they may have been wearing.

I personally don't assume that someone got dressed in the morning with me in mind. Even if a person is butt naked, it's still incumbent on everyone else to be respectful and mature. I mean, I'm sure we've all seen human nudity before, right? If it drives you that crazy, you have a problem.

There are plenty of women who gawk at men too (not at me I hasten to add)- as long as it stays at gawking, and the person being gawked is not offended it is ok

 

[JustGeorge]

I am a woman(despite my user name), who has had some trouble with this. Being overly top heavy, it can be next to impossible to find an article of clothing that fits, covers everything, and still looks nice. One can run around in T-shirts constantly, but why should one have to look dumpy just to avoid stares? I remember having to buy an extra piece of fabric to pin in my work clothes to cover cleavage, because most decent looking shirts did not cover it for me. Though it always looked like I was trying to 'show off', I really wasn't. My biggest problem wasn't with people actually staring, but people assuming I was wanting them to.

Thankfully, I'm rather thick skinned, and am pretty good about avoiding or ignoring stares. That's their problem, not mine. In the event a comment is made, I'm so used to it I've got enough comments of my own on auto pilot. I prefer to deflect with humor. Most people have the good sense to keep their hands to themselves, and if they choose not to, I can leave my shoe in an uncomfortable place.

Stare(and this goes for either gender, in any situation) if you want, try to be subtle, but never assume someone wants you to.

 

[ChristineM]

You don't need to dress in sexy/revealing clothes to get attention from some men. I've passed a building site at close to freezing temperatures dressed in winter walking boots, heavy, full length cost, scarf wrapped around my neck and face so just my eyes are showing and a thick woollen hat. The result is a riot of whoops, wolf whistles and invites to a nice warm bed. It seems its expected of some men.

However, when i do dress for the occasion it is to please my man, not gawkers. Admiring glances are one thing, staring transfixed can be at the least embarrassing, at most threatening