Words are wonderful, they can make you happy or sad, they can lift you up or knock you down, there are good words and bad words, and I have learned quite a few in my lifetime, but I cannot for the life of me understand which words they use to persuade someone to blow themselves and other people to pieces, they must be very very BIG words.
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Words are wonderful things.
- Thread starter shytot
- Start date
I am talking about people who are so brain washed, they can be talked into giving up the one thing all animals have in common, self preservation, we run when we're in danger, it is built into us all, like the hairs standing up on the back of our necks when we're afraid, we shiver when we're cold, we have no control over it, unless we are on drugs, of are conditioned from birth, you choose which it is.
croak
Trickster
Well, these "brain-washed" people (and I'm talking about Muslims) are blowing themselves up, because they know that:
1. They are fighting their oppressors
2. They will go straight to Heaven
But since you are Athiest, you do not believe in the second one. You do not believe they are fighting for Allah, for Islam. So, technically, in your beliefs, what they are doing is suicide. Well, unless you understand our beliefs, you will not understand what we do.
1. They are fighting their oppressors
2. They will go straight to Heaven
But since you are Athiest, you do not believe in the second one. You do not believe they are fighting for Allah, for Islam. So, technically, in your beliefs, what they are doing is suicide. Well, unless you understand our beliefs, you will not understand what we do.
skills101
Vicar of Christ
Well, here's the bottom line. We, all non-muslims, don't really have to understand why they do it. All we have to understand is that it's killing other people, and it's wrong. If murdering 3000 people in one day is "fighting" for Allah, as though He is for one group of people, then maybe that fight is worth losing. Maybe you can help me understand it better.RearingArabian said:
Feathers in Hair
World's Tallest Hobbit
Shytot, have you read anything by Terry Pratchett? He has some interesting thoughts on those who are able to twist words, and also those who are able to use them for the maximum good of all.
RearingArabian,
Are you of the opinion that the people in the WTC were fighting against Islam?
Are you of the opinion that the people in the WTC were fighting against Islam?
A bore is someone you disagree with, if you agree with him, you tell yourself he makes a lot of sense, if you want or need to believe something, no matter how implausible it is, you will,
RearingArabian says when a Muslim dies 'They will go straight to Heaven'
we have no way of proving or disproving that statement so they are just words,
words he wants or needs to believe, words he will pass on to his children for them to believe,
my dog does not have the brain power to imagine a heaven, but I do, but just because I can,
does not make it so, we believe what we want to believe.
I have not read or heard of Terry Pratchett, but I expect if you agree with him, he is not twisting words, if you don't, he is.
RearingArabian says when a Muslim dies 'They will go straight to Heaven'
we have no way of proving or disproving that statement so they are just words,
words he wants or needs to believe, words he will pass on to his children for them to believe,
my dog does not have the brain power to imagine a heaven, but I do, but just because I can,
does not make it so, we believe what we want to believe.
I have not read or heard of Terry Pratchett, but I expect if you agree with him, he is not twisting words, if you don't, he is.
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Words are sorely inadequate, especially when trying to describe the eternal. But words are all we have, and that leaves them open to interpretation and misunderstanding. Islam, at it's core, is a peaceful religion. But like ALL religions, it becomes perverted over time but some followers. Do not condemn a whole religion based on the actions of a few.
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
I believe words make the world more of an illusion. Makes the world finite, and makes our understanding finite. As finite beings, we do this instinctively. However, animals do not. Their experience is without words and thus they live more balanced and peaceful than we do. So against shytots statement. I believe that because animals do not need to use words to "think" of heaven, that they will be one with tao, or go to heaven easier. Humans have to work harder at it. And if anything, should try to be more like the animals.
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
Well, even though everyone's thinking is in itself "new" because everyone thinks differently, it is in it's heart taoist. I am a vigil, that is I am awake and aware of all the spirits of the world, and the way of the tao. I focus on meditation to allow my vigilance to expand, from which I find root in zen. So instead of saying I am a zen taoist shaman, I say I am a tao vigil. (or taoist vigil, but I don't think it fit.)
martha
Active Member
Ponder these words.....
And how shall you rise beyond your days and nights unless you break the chains which you at the dawn of your understanding have fastened around your noon hour?
In truth that which you call freedom is the strongest of these chains, though its links glitter in the sun and dazzle your eyes.
If it is an unjust law you would abolish, that law was written with your own hand upon your own forehead.
And if it is a despot you would dethrone, see first that his throne erected within you is destroyed. And if it is care that you would cast off, that care has been chosen by you rather than imposed on you. And if it is a fear you would dispel, the seat of that fear is in your heart and not in the hand of the feared.
Your soul is oftentimes a battlefield, upon which your reason and your judgment wage war against your passion and your anger. Would that I could be the peacemaker in your soul, that I might turn the discord and the rivalry of your elements into oneness and melody. But how shall I, unless you yourselves be also the peacemakers, nay the lovers of all the world, your elements.
For reason, ruling alone, is a force confining; and passion, unattended, is a flame that burns to its very own destruction. God rests in reason, God moves in compassion.
And since you are a breath in God's sphere, and a leaf in God's forest, you too should rest in reason and move in compassion.
Peace beloved of God
And how shall you rise beyond your days and nights unless you break the chains which you at the dawn of your understanding have fastened around your noon hour?
In truth that which you call freedom is the strongest of these chains, though its links glitter in the sun and dazzle your eyes.
If it is an unjust law you would abolish, that law was written with your own hand upon your own forehead.
And if it is a despot you would dethrone, see first that his throne erected within you is destroyed. And if it is care that you would cast off, that care has been chosen by you rather than imposed on you. And if it is a fear you would dispel, the seat of that fear is in your heart and not in the hand of the feared.
Your soul is oftentimes a battlefield, upon which your reason and your judgment wage war against your passion and your anger. Would that I could be the peacemaker in your soul, that I might turn the discord and the rivalry of your elements into oneness and melody. But how shall I, unless you yourselves be also the peacemakers, nay the lovers of all the world, your elements.
For reason, ruling alone, is a force confining; and passion, unattended, is a flame that burns to its very own destruction. God rests in reason, God moves in compassion.
And since you are a breath in God's sphere, and a leaf in God's forest, you too should rest in reason and move in compassion.
Peace beloved of God
martha
Active Member
I recently viewed a thread about music and how it affects our soul, so to speak. The author was in my opinion, asking how does music evoke emotion. In this forum the question is how do words affect our souls and provoke actions?
What is it, in the human experience, that words do to our nerves and our perception that spur us to certain actions.
If I say "I love you", why does that expression in itself produce a warm physical sensation that can be tangibly felt in the center of my chest. You all know exactly what I mean. If I say, "I hate your guts!" Why should those words evoke anger or sadness? These are only words (verbal expressions of my feeling about another). Is it that we place meaning upon these individual words, ie: I , meaning me, hate.. meaning dislike or disdain...your ie: the existance of you ...guts..the core of ones being. But why should that offend me?. Because I want to be loved by all, accepted and understood. I think that I am good, with certain reservation about myself, nothing to abstract mind you. If someone infers that they do not accept me, my soul is shunned, and it hurts. One begins to question, "Why"? How powerful words are. In the Bible it says , "The tongue is a two edged sword, Praising God at one moment and deriding , or cutting down another soul in the next." As for me and my soul I will endeavor to speak only kind words, and if I have none, I will keep silent.
Would that we could all harness our toungues!
Blessings to you
Martha
What is it, in the human experience, that words do to our nerves and our perception that spur us to certain actions.
If I say "I love you", why does that expression in itself produce a warm physical sensation that can be tangibly felt in the center of my chest. You all know exactly what I mean. If I say, "I hate your guts!" Why should those words evoke anger or sadness? These are only words (verbal expressions of my feeling about another). Is it that we place meaning upon these individual words, ie: I , meaning me, hate.. meaning dislike or disdain...your ie: the existance of you ...guts..the core of ones being. But why should that offend me?. Because I want to be loved by all, accepted and understood. I think that I am good, with certain reservation about myself, nothing to abstract mind you. If someone infers that they do not accept me, my soul is shunned, and it hurts. One begins to question, "Why"? How powerful words are. In the Bible it says , "The tongue is a two edged sword, Praising God at one moment and deriding , or cutting down another soul in the next." As for me and my soul I will endeavor to speak only kind words, and if I have none, I will keep silent.
Would that we could all harness our toungues!
Blessings to you
Martha
croak
Trickster
Lemt me add something I forgot to add.
If you attack civilians, then that's terrorism. You can only attack soldiers. What happened in the WTC........those people are terrorists and are going to Hell. That is totally against Islam. But if you fight against soldiers, ex. Palestinians against Israelis, for the freedom of being a Muslim, then you will be a martyr.
I am sorry, but I am not Muslim, and I have a very good understanding of why they do it. I am not in any hurry to die, but I would blow myself up in 2 seconds for something that I believe in, my son for example.skills101 said:
Please keep in mind that I am not condoning terrorism, but these people truly believe what they believe. I don't think killing is right, but the original question was based in someone's ability to take their own life, when the very act is against our own survival instincts.
does anyone in here remember the buddahist monks setting themselves on fire in the streets durring the vietnam campagin? why do you think they did it? sometimes you have to decide whether your ready to lay your life down for your cause. this has nothing to do with being brainwashed. as far as 9-11 goes, for example, the f.b.i. found a quran and a flight manual in a parked car. why would a person who is going to highjack a plane leave important information like how to fly a jet in the car? and also he knows he is going to die, why would he leave his holy book behind? 9-11 is yet another government cover-up that has more questions than answers. i will give you the benefit of the doubt and say it was a muslim. why would he do such a thing? well maybe he is sick and tired of his country being ran by a u.s. puppet. maybe he is sick and tired of seeing his brothers and sisters thrown off their lands, murdered and shamed by a u.s. funded isreal zionist. maybe he is sick and tired of watching his countries natural resources being manufactured and him not seeing a dime of the procedes. and maybe he is sick and tired of his religion being slammed by others who never took the time to undestand it. this is not a religious thing it is a geopolitical thing. islam did not fly planes into buildings. stalin was an atheist so would it be fair for me to say that atheists are mass murders? or would it be fair for me to say that atheists are stupid for doing what stalin told them to do? the point is stop putting people in boxes and realize that some people are willing to die for what they believe in.
