Working together

[Nimos]

Maybe not a huge surprise, but it seems that China is now supporting Putin and funny enough Putin is supporting China in regards to Taiwan and that it is Chinese.

A united front between China and Russia is slightly more problematic as China is obviously a huge economic power which we have seen before, using its power to pressure the rest of the world.

Seems like NATO is under severe political attack to be honest.

 

[anna.]

Maybe not a huge surprise, but it seems that China is now supporting Putin and funny enough Putin is supporting China in regards to Taiwan and that it is Chinese.

A united front between China and Russia is slightly more problematic as China is obviously a huge economic power which we have seen before, using its power to pressure the rest of the world.

Seems like NATO is under severe political attack to be honest.

Not at all surprising.

Why are China and Russia strengthening ties?

 

[Audie]

Maybe not a huge surprise, but it seems that China is now supporting Putin and funny enough Putin is supporting China in regards to Taiwan and that it is Chinese.

A united front between China and Russia is slightly more problematic as China is obviously a huge economic power which we have seen before, using its power to pressure the rest of the world.

Seems like NATO is under severe political attack to be honest.

I am no fan of Russia but having allied / hostile
military forces on their borders is rightfully not to their taste.

As to whether Taiwan is Chinese, nobody familiar the subject will say otherwise.
Both claim to be the legitimate govt of all
of China

 

[Nimos]

I am no fan of Russia but having allied / hostile
military forces on their borders is rightfully not to their taste.

But everyone have potential hostile military forces next to them. But for some reason these big countries think that they should be immune to it. Imagine if Germany, France or Italy said the same thing?

 

[Audie]

But everyone have potential hostile military forces next to them.

Seriously? That is so untrue.

 

[Nimos]

Seriously? That is so untrue.

What do you mean? except maybe Australia doesn't all other countries have borders to other countries or very short distances to them? The only reason France and German is not constantly at each others neck and demanding secure borders is because they have figured out how to work together. If you recall France build the Maginot line against Germany, so clearly they had issues with each other as well. And as we know WW2 came etc. But now they are not constantly demanding secure border and each other being threats, even when the UK left EU, I don't recall anyone calling for secure bothers against them either. Obviously UK is in NATO as well, but still, its just silly that these big countries think that they are immune.

 

[Audie]

What do you mean? except maybe Australia doesn't all other countries have borders to other countries or very short distances to them? The only reason France and German is not constantly at each others neck and demanding secure borders is because they have figured out how to work together. If you recall France build the Maginot line against Germany, so clearly they had issues with each other as well. And as we know WW2 came etc. But now they are not constantly demanding secure border and each other being threats, even when the UK left EU, I don't recall anyone calling for secure bothers against them either. Obviously UK is in NATO as well, but still, its just silly that these big countries think that they are immune.

Maybe you can spare me the history / geography lesson you are ill equipped to
offer.
Just in the general area we also have
NZ, all of the nations of Oceana, Philippines,
Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Papua New Guinea,
Borneo, Brunei...

Quarrelsome as Euronations have been,
there is no enemy alliance ready on the border of ireland, portugal, iceland, spain....

"Silly to think immune" is what is silly.
I no way said or implied such a thing
as " thinking immune".
A hostile army alliance with three nuclear power members on ones border is not remotely
comparable to the US- Canada border or to,
say, Honduras and El Salvador.

Calling Russia's concerns "silly" is hardly
reflective of any more understanding than
the goofy thing about Australia was.

 

[Stevicus]

Maybe not a huge surprise, but it seems that China is now supporting Putin and funny enough Putin is supporting China in regards to Taiwan and that it is Chinese.

A united front between China and Russia is slightly more problematic as China is obviously a huge economic power which we have seen before, using its power to pressure the rest of the world.

Seems like NATO is under severe political attack to be honest.

The US government and military leadership has had quite a free ride these past few decades since the end of the Cold War. They've been able to do whatever they want around the world, with very little opposition from the world community or the American people. We have military installations in dozens of countries - not just NATO members.

I can see how some parties in this world may have grown weary and fed up with this kind of arrangement of America taking on the presumed role of "leader of the free world." Other countries can see that America isn't the only game in town, and they might see Russia or China as possible allies.

It seems that America may have to rethink its position in the world and start adapting to a changing world. This might be difficult in a time of rising international tensions and dissension within the country.

 

[Nimos]

Maybe you can spare me the history / geography lesson you are ill equipped to
offer.
Just in the general area we also have
NZ, all of the nations of Oceana, Philippines,
Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Papua New Guinea,
Borneo, Brunei...

Quarrelsome as Euronations have been,
there is no enemy alliance ready on the border of ireland, portugal, iceland, spain....

"Silly to think immune" is what is silly.
I no way said or implied such a thing
as " thinking immune".
A hostile army alliance with three nuclear power members on ones border is not remotely
comparable to the US- Canada border or to,
say, Honduras and El Salvador.

Calling Russia's concerns "silly" is hardly
reflective of any more understanding than
the goofy thing about Australia was.

Well doesn't Russia demand that Ukraine is to NEVER be allowed to join NATO? Who the hell are they to decide what Ukraine should and shouldn't do? That is like Germany demanding that Poland should do this and that or they will go ape **** if they don't. But because its Russia and its a big country then its a perfectly legit demand?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Maybe not a huge surprise, but it seems that China is now supporting Putin and funny enough Putin is supporting China in regards to Taiwan and that it is Chinese.

A united front between China and Russia is slightly more problematic as China is obviously a huge economic power which we have seen before, using its power to pressure the rest of the world.

Seems like NATO is under severe political attack to be honest.

Putin has always been chummy with China as with the history of Russia/USSR.

This is nothing new really.

 

[Nimos]

The US government and military leadership has had quite a free ride these past few decades since the end of the Cold War. They've been able to do whatever they want around the world, with very little opposition from the world community or the American people. We have military installations in dozens of countries - not just NATO members.

I can see how some parties in this world may have grown weary and fed up with this kind of arrangement of America taking on the presumed role of "leader of the free world." Other countries can see that America isn't the only game in town, and they might see Russia or China as possible allies.

It seems that America may have to rethink its position in the world and start adapting to a changing world. This might be difficult in a time of rising international tensions and dissension within the country.

Yet but that is a different thing, because countries can make deals with each others. Its not like the US demand to have military in a country and if they don't allow it they will invade it or bomb them. China and Russia could do the same if they want, but they will rather invade or annex the countries instead it seems. Without the US (mostly) and EU, these countries would go completely crazy.

 

[Audie]

Well doesn't Russia demand that Ukraine is to NEVER be allowed to join NATO? Who the hell are they to decide what Ukraine should and shouldn't do? That is like Germany demanding that Poland should do this and that or they will go ape **** if they don't. But because its Russia and its a big country then its a perfectly legit demand?

Dont give a inch on your false stements,
change the subject, then end with a
strawman.

 

[Nimos]

Dont give a inch on your false stements,
change the subject, then end with a
strawman.

Its not, they don't want Ukraine in NATO, because they think its to close to their borders and it obviously prevent them from ever expanding in that direction should they want to and what other reasons they have. How is that any different than if we imagine that German threaten to attack Poland, if they ever make an alliance with Russia?

Equally that is like Germany saying that they are "special" and therefore they can make such demands over other countries, which as I said indicate that they think they have some sort of special privilege of telling those around them what to do and not to do.

 

[Nimos]

Putin has always been chummy with China as with the history of Russia/USSR.

This is nothing new really.

Yeah given the article that @anna linked they seem to have a common interest in how to do things.

 

[Audie]

Its not, they don't want Ukraine in NATO, because they think its to close to their borders and it obviously prevent them from ever expanding in that direction should they want to and what other reasons they have. How is that any different than if we imagine that German threaten to attack Poland, if they ever make an alliance with Russia?

Equally that is like Germany saying that they are "special" and therefore they can make such demands over other countries, which as I said indicate that they think they have some sort of special privilege of telling those around them what to do and not to do.

Nothing false if you skip some things and change the story on the rest

 

[sun rise]

I am no fan of Russia but having allied / hostile
military forces on their borders is rightfully not to their taste.

They said nothing about it for decades. They said nothing about Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia being actual NATO members. They said nothing about other former Soviet puppet states joining NATO.

So the facts are these. The US leaves Afghanistan. Suddenly China goes full war mongering about Taiwan and Russia amasses an invasion force next to the Ukraine. Both make bellicose moves and issue bellicose threats at exactly the same time.

The natural and to me true conclusion is it's not about NATO or Taiwan as much as it is China and Russia being allies and indirectly challenging the US and our allied partners assuming we'll back down. And of course full bore propaganda/gaslighting/lying is part of the picture.

Yes to free Taiwan.
Yes to free Ukraine.
Down with Russia.
Down with China.

 

[Nimos]

Nothing false if you skip some things and change the story on the rest

Not sure what you mean skip some things and change the story? what did I change?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Maybe not a huge surprise, but it seems that China is now supporting Putin and funny enough Putin is supporting China in regards to Taiwan and that it is Chinese.

A united front between China and Russia is slightly more problematic as China is obviously a huge economic power which we have seen before, using its power to pressure the rest of the world.

Seems like NATO is under severe political attack to be honest.

Lately China is not such an economic power, and that is partly what this is about. The chairman needs a win, because he has messed up and has rivals at home that can take advantage of it. His government took a huge gamble with its real estate bubble. Many Chinese people invested for retirement by purchasing apartments, not stock (since they weren't allowed to buy stock); but now most of those investment homes have lost their value as the real estate market has plummeted. Many retirement apartments literally have no investment value unless someone repairs them and actually wants to live in them, but instead they are located in unfinished ghost cities with no places to work, no reason to move there. Many are concrete unfinished. Well, I guess now there is someone who will move in since nobody will want to buy them. "Its the economy, stupid" might be the end of this chairman.

Putin, too, needs a win at home. I suspect he is looking at his mortality, too. He's already had cancer surgery and looks much younger than his bones actually are; but he has already won a concession: Ukraine has not joined NATO.

At risk is the sovereignty of a young democracy, Ukraine, and also stability in the nations along the edge of Europe. Taiwan is in danger but would not let itself be taken alive, nor Japan if it came to it.

Taiwan would choose to sink, if that were possible, having seen the way China mainland and Hong Kong are managed. As it is, I'm pretty sure Taiwan and Japan would be formidable enough to stop any force that attacks either. Nobody has better tech. Japan has developed her own stealth fighters for example, and Taiwan is a manufacturing machine. The real danger is letting them go to war at all, because they might not stop at self defense. There are always consequences for attacking an island. Also they would not be alone.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I am no fan of Russia but having allied / hostile
military forces on their borders is rightfully not to their taste.

You might wonder why countries like Latvia, Estonia, and such might be viewed as hostile, given that they were virtually taken over by the Soviet Union during and after WWII. No wonder many are keen to join NATO - to simply safeguard what they have now.

 

[Audie]

You might wonder why countries like Latvia, Estonia, and such might be viewed as hostile, given that they were virtually taken over by the Soviet Union during and after WWII. No wonder many are keen to join NATO - to simply safeguard what they have now.

Of course