Would anarchism last?

[an anarchist]

@an anarchist

If some cataclysm (either natural or man made) wipes out civilisation then perhaps whatever's left might be some kind of post-apocolyptic anarchy? Perhaps that's how you'd get anarchy?

The question is, for how long would it last?

I don't think it would for very long given human nature but who knows!

Anarchism never being prevalent throughout all of recorded history up to the present day helps support your point.

Suppose I had a genie in a bottle and I wished for society to convert from statism to anarchism. What would be required od this magic genie for: one, to make it initially happen, and two, to make it stick?

A theory on why government exists in the first place. It‘s simple, government has always been present because there has always been predatory people present. Predatory people create and fill the roles of government and prey on the general populace.

An understanding of this is required of future generations. Government has always painted itself as both inevitable and necessary. As long as people believe in this on mass, combined with predatory figures who push this lie, government will be inevitable and anarchism impossible.

Edit: I’m fleshing this out with my next response ;^] dont wait for me though

 

[an anarchist]

Anarchism never being prevalent throughout all of recorded history up to the present day helps support your point.

Suppose I had a genie in a bottle and I wished for society to convert from statism to anarchism. What would be required od this magic genie for: one, to make it initially happen, and two, to make it stick?

A theory on why government exists in the first place. It‘s simple, government has always been present because there has always been predatory people present. Predatory people create and fill the roles of government and prey on the general populace.

An understanding of this is required of future generations. Government has always painted itself as both inevitable and necessary. As long as people believe in this on mass, combined with predatory figures who push this lie, government will be inevitable and anarchism impossible.

Edit: I’m fleshing this out with my next response ;^] dont wait for me though

To make it initially happen, hmmmm, i wonder if even with a genie if an instant transformation is possible. Future generations have to become self sufficient from the government in the first place. Then the anarchist economic systems would have to naturally and spontaneously mature.

If governments were to all sign a law saying that government was no more, a power vaccuum would happen. And without society being prepped and willing for anarchism, they would revert back to government.

 

[an anarchist]

@Heyo what do you suppose are the necessary prerequisites for an anarchist society? I know we view anarchism differently but we both are still anarchists, in one way or another.

 

[Eddi]

Suppose I had a genie in a bottle and I wished for society to convert from statism to anarchism. What would be required od this magic genie for: one, to make it initially happen, and two, to make it stick?

You'd need a very small and uncomplicated society for anarchism to work

Such as what we might see after a nuclear war or something like that

I'm thinking of a tribal society of hunter-gatherers, with very little technology

With a very small population

I think if such a tribal society got any larger or more complex then rules and government would inevitably arise, whether you like it or not

The best way to preserve anarchism would be to stay primative and tribal, to preserve low-tech tribalism

To do this all the tribes of the world would have to become committed anarchists, to effectively make anarchism their religion......

But if anarchism was mandated by a rule or consensus would it still be anarchism??????

 

[Kfox]

Anarchism never being prevalent throughout all of recorded history up to the present day helps support your point.

Suppose I had a genie in a bottle and I wished for society to convert from statism to anarchism. What would be required od this magic genie for: one, to make it initially happen, and two, to make it stick?

A theory on why government exists in the first place. It‘s simple, government has always been present because there has always been predatory people present. Predatory people create and fill the roles of government and prey on the general populace.

An understanding of this is required of future generations. Government has always painted itself as both inevitable and necessary. As long as people believe in this on mass, combined with predatory figures who push this lie, government will be inevitable and anarchism impossible.

Edit: I’m fleshing this out with my next response ;^] dont wait for me though

Anarchy is only possible when you live on an island by yourself; once you start living around someone else, the strong will conquer the weak and impose rules on the weak

 

[an anarchist]

You'd need a very small and uncomplicated society for anarchism to work

Such as what we might see after a nuclear war or something like that

I'm thinking of a tribal society of hunter-gatherers, with very little technology

With a very small population

I think if such a tribal society got any larger or more complex then rules and government would inevitably arise, whether you like it or not

The best way to preserve anarchism would be to stay primative and tribal, to preserve low-tech tribalism

To do this all the tribes of the world would have to become committed anarchists, to effectively make anarchism their religion......

But if anarchism was mandated by a rule or consensus would it still be anarchism??????

Now what you are describing and arguing is aligned with what some anarchist believe as well. Anarcho-primitivmism.

Anarcho-primitivism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Anarchism is quite diverse. Like, I’m a capitalist, Heyo is a syndicalist, etc.. I disagree with the primitivists, and you as well.

You assert that an anarchist system is impossible in a complex society. Perhaps you suppose that an economic system in an anarchist framework wouldn’t be able to handle the complexities that would arise from large societies. You are wrong.

Now, the question is, are we going to commit to debate about this? I do want to go to college for economics, I’m barely going to start my generals next year though, so I’m quite behind. I have books I can dig up though for this debate. I was hesitant to make this thread, because I was playing video games. But I haven’t stimulated my mind by actually putting effort into debate in a long time. I’m in the mood though, so should I dig out my books?

I’ll get to your last sentence in a bit. I’ll post this for now

 

[an anarchist]

Anarchy is only possible when you live on an island by yourself; once you start living around someone else, the strong will conquer the weak and impose rules on the weak

Perhaps the most common misconception of anarchism is that it means lawlessness, and therefore, disorder. This is not so.

Anarchism means “no rulers”, not “no rules”.

Should I elaborate?

 

[Nimos]

A theory on why government exists in the first place. It‘s simple, government has always been present because there has always been predatory people present. Predatory people create and fill the roles of government and prey on the general populace.

But so do regular people, how many companies haven't been caught doing something illegal or exploitative? Police in some cases do bad things as well, then you have gangs etc.

There are some basic things that need to be clarified before it is even possible to take anarchism seriously.

1. Who decides the law? or what is right or wrong?
2. What happens to a person who doesn't follow the rules and who decides the punishment?

 

[Eddi]

Perhaps you suppose that an economic system in an anarchist framework wouldn’t be able to handle the complexities that would arise from large societies. You are wrong.

Please explain!

Now, the question is, are we going to commit to debate about this?

I for one would always be happy to discuss anarchism

My degree is mostly in the social sciences so anarchism is of interest to me even though I have never studied it

 

[Kfox]

Perhaps the most common misconception of anarchism is that it means lawlessness, and therefore, disorder. This is not so.

Anarchism means “no rulers”, not “no rules”.

Should I elaborate?

Yes! Explain how are rules possible without rulers.

 

[Eddi]

@an anarchist

If we're going to have a thread on anarchism perhaps you could provide an exact definition?

Better still, an explanation!

 

[an anarchist]

@an anarchist

If we're going to have a thread on anarchism perhaps you could provide an exact definition?

Better still, an explanation!

Here are some attempts.

What is Anarchism?

Question. What is Anarchism? Question. Can a socialist and a capitalist both be anarchists? If you ask Google what the definition of anarchism is, it says belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or...

www.religiousforums.com

Anarchism and its variants.

@Heyo @syo I want to discuss anarchism and it’s variations, I welcome you guys to participate in this discussion. 1. What is anarchism? Anarchism is a political system in which there is no state I.e. government. It is not the absence of law and order as many presume, rather, it is the absence...

www.religiousforums.com

If you have further specific questions feel free to ask!

 

[Eddi]

Here are some attempts.

What is Anarchism?

Question. What is Anarchism? Question. Can a socialist and a capitalist both be anarchists? If you ask Google what the definition of anarchism is, it says belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or...

www.religiousforums.com

Anarchism and its variants.

@Heyo @syo I want to discuss anarchism and it’s variations, I welcome you guys to participate in this discussion. 1. What is anarchism? Anarchism is a political system in which there is no state I.e. government. It is not the absence of law and order as many presume, rather, it is the absence...

www.religiousforums.com

If you have further specific questions feel free to ask!

Fantastic, I will have a look!

 

[an anarchist]

But so do regular people, how many companies haven't been caught doing something illegal or exploitative? Police in some cases do bad things as well, then you have gangs etc.

There are some basic things that need to be clarified before it is even possible to take anarchism seriously.

1. Who decides the law? or what is right or wrong?
2. What happens to a person who doesn't follow the rules and who decides the punishment?

Yes! Explain how are rules possible without rulers.

Alright I came to this thread ill prepared, spontaneously created it really. So I'm reading rn so I can better answer your questions without sounding like an utter fool on the internet mmkay? Ill get back to you guys soon I promise

 

[Eddi]

I see you alluded to Weber's definition of the state!

Tell me, what would politics be like in anarchism, without the state?

Would there even be politics?

How could conflicting interests be reconciled?

How do you imagine things like education and health care without a state? Or would everyone be illiterate and the life expectancy be 30?

I don't see how we could have public services or development without some kind of state and I personally value such things so I must say I'm a bit sceptical although I think it's a nice idea

 

[Kfox]

Alright I came to this thread ill prepared, spontaneously created it really. So I'm reading rn so I can better answer your questions without sounding like an utter fool on the internet mmkay? Ill get back to you guys soon I promise

Looking forward to your reply

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Anarchy is only possible when you live on an island by yourself; once you start living around someone else, the strong will conquer the weak and impose rules on the weak

Or, cooperators will understand it is their mutual benefit to cooperate and constrain their individual behaviors...

 

[Koldo]

Anarchism never being prevalent throughout all of recorded history up to the present day helps support your point.

Suppose I had a genie in a bottle and I wished for society to convert from statism to anarchism. What would be required od this magic genie for: one, to make it initially happen, and two, to make it stick?

A theory on why government exists in the first place. It‘s simple, government has always been present because there has always been predatory people present. Predatory people create and fill the roles of government and prey on the general populace.

An understanding of this is required of future generations. Government has always painted itself as both inevitable and necessary. As long as people believe in this on mass, combined with predatory figures who push this lie, government will be inevitable and anarchism impossible.

Edit: I’m fleshing this out with my next response ;^] dont wait for me though

Or, cooperators will understand it is their mutual benefit to cooperate and constrain their individual behaviors...

I genuinely can't think of any economical system that would remain stable in an anarchist society. Because what keeps societies stable is the use and threat of violence by a single power.

In a capitalist society, the capitalists need the threat of violence to keep the poor from stealing the capital. In a communist society, the proletariat needs the threat of violence to keep anyone from amassing capital.

 

[Heyo]

@Heyo what do you suppose are the necessary prerequisites for an anarchist society? I know we view anarchism differently but we both are still anarchists, in one way or another.

One of the prerequisites is to "be on an island". Metaphorically as "the island" has to be some place where foreign intervention is impossible or at least very unlikely.
Historically no anarchist society has ever failed on its own as all attempts have been crushed from the outside. A functioning anarchist society would be a threat to all other forms of government as people might learn that their authorities aren't necessary. In that case fascists will join forces with communists to eliminate the threat.
The second prerequisite is an informed and interested society. You need only a few ruthless people to form and maintain a dictatorship and the masses just to be indifferent. You need a simple majority of people to form and maintain a democracy. For an anarchy to be sustainable a qualified majority must be for it and be actively for it.
We elect (or tolerate) leaders out of convenience. We delegate administration to them and let them rule over us in exchange. Anarchism is taking the administration back in our hands and be responsible. That is a lot of work and responsibility. Not everybody wants that or has the time for it.
And here comes a thing that may not be a prerequisite but it may help: a post scarcity economy. In a highly automated economy where people don't have to work for a living, they at least have the time (but not necessarily the inclination) to volunteer for "government" work.

 

[Kfox]

Or, cooperators will understand it is their mutual benefit to cooperate and constrain their individual behaviors...

How is this possible without rules?