Would you consider this Christian?

[horizon_mj1]

I believe that Christ's death was to allow communication between Mankind and God; allowing for Mankind to ask for forgiveness for the Evils they have directly to God. I believe the Christ is a Prince awaiting for the Kingdom to be given to him, not to be bowed to, that is only for God the King, but stood by until the battle has been won.

Is this considered Christian or not?

 

[Green Kepi]

1 Timothy 2 :5 tells us that: " For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men/women, Jesus Christ (verse 6) also says: "who gave himself as a payment for all.... " Before Adam and Eve sinned, they were sinless and could speak to directly to God.

When they did sin, God cut off the line of communication between Him and man. Out of his great love, He decided (before time began) to restore that channel of communication with Him by sending His Son as a cost to reestablish that channel of communication that was broken.

So now...the only way to God is to pray to God, through Jesus Christ...in John 14: 6 Jesus himself says that we cannot speak to the Father, unless we go through him.

The Kingdom (the Church) has already been given to Jesus...Christ is NOT a prince...He is now the King! God is not the King. He is the Almighty! When Jesus returns again...He will return the Kingdom to the Father God. The Battle will be won when Christ returns the 2nd time....

 

[Me Myself]

I believe that Christ's death was to allow communication between Mankind and God; allowing for Mankind to ask for forgiveness for the Evils they have directly to God. I believe the Christ is a Prince awaiting for the Kingdom to be given to him, not to be bowed to, that is only for God the King, but stood by until the battle has been won.

Is this considered Christian or not?

Allow them, for those that are not against me are with me.

I think you are christian if you promote peace and love and call yourself a christian.

 

[Shermana]

I believe that Christ's death was to allow communication between Mankind and God; allowing for Mankind to ask for forgiveness for the Evils they have directly to God. I believe the Christ is a Prince awaiting for the Kingdom to be given to him, not to be bowed to, that is only for God the King, but stood by until the battle has been won.

Is this considered Christian or not?

So what were people doing in the old days when they had prophets and had days of repentance in Sack cloth and ashes?

 

[Green Kepi]

Allow them, for those that are not against me are with me.

I think you are christian if you promote peace and love and call yourself a christian.

According to the Scripture, you are a Christian "if" & only you follow Christ's Plan of Salvation...just calling yourself a Christian does not make you one. True promoting peace and love are Christians virtues but non-Christians can promote peace and love, which many do...probably moreso than many Christians....

 

[Shermana]

Allow them, for those that are not against me are with me.

I think you are christian if you promote peace and love and call yourself a christian.

But if you promote doctrines and views that completely clash with what Jesus taught, or ignore the important details and thus are a rejection of what the text says he taught, wouldn't that be "against" him?

 

[Me Myself]

According to the Scripture, you are a Christian "if" & only you follow Christ's Plan of Salvation...just calling yourself a Christian does not make you one. True promoting peace and love are Christians virtues but non-Christians can promote peace and love, which many do...probably moreso than many Christians....

Loving god and loving brothers and sisters is the path to salvation.

And God is love anyways, so if you ant to summarize it, its just all about love. Never heard Christ calling anyone a christian though.

He did say those that are not against me are with me, when he was asked about people doing good things in his name.

 

[Shiranui117]

I believe that Christ's death was to allow communication between Mankind and God; allowing for Mankind to ask for forgiveness for the Evils they have directly to God.

This sounds sorta like the Recapitulation Theory of Atonement, which was an ancient idea spoken of by the first Christians. But then again, mankind was always to COMMUNICATE to God, even after the Fall. It's not the communication between God and man that was broken, it was the wholeness of the relationship.

I believe the Christ is a Prince awaiting for the Kingdom to be given to him, not to be bowed to, that is only for God the King, but stood by until the battle has been won.

Is this considered Christian or not?

Not worshipping Jesus definitely falls outside standard Trinitarian Christianity.

 

[Windwalker]

I think you are christian if you promote peace and love and call yourself a christian.

But if you promote doctrines and views that completely clash with what Jesus taught, or ignore the important details and thus are a rejection of what the text says he taught, wouldn't that be "against" him?

But if you promote peace and love, then you aren't clashing with what Jesus taught. "Love works no ill". "Love is the fulfillment of the law". If you what you teach or preach leads to working ill, then you are "against" him, whether you call yourself a Bible-believing Christian, or not. I think those they say you must "believe" correctly are substituting those beliefs for actually fulfilling what he taught. Who can believe identically, and how can that be the condition for fulfilling the law? "Love is the fulfillment of the law... love works no ill".

 

[Green Kepi]

But...one must initially do what Christ and His Apostles taught in 'how to become one first'...then the loving God and brothers/sisters takes place...but...just loving is not the Path. True...we are not told that Christ called anyone of His follower - Christians. But...they first called themselves Christians at Antioch....

 

[Windwalker]

But...one must initially do what Christ and His Apostles taught in 'how to become one first'...then the loving God and brothers/sisters takes place...but...just loving is not the Path. True...we are not told that Christ called anyone of His follower - Christians. But...they first called themselves Christians at Antioch....

Jesus replied, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Except of course for following the rites of baptism, confession of faith, joinging a church, paying tithes, etc, etc? I hear people like to add these conditions. However according to Jesus the entirety of scripture is fulfilled in two commandments only, "Love God, love your neighbor as yourself". I never got the whole you must believe this doctrine or follow this detail to be considered as "living for God". I think of it this way, why would God hang any external condition of believing this, doing that ritual, that rite of passage according to some doctrine, when God is fullfilled in LOVE? If you love God in the manner prescribed in the first commandment, which all your heart, soul, and mind (I don't hear performing rituals listed there), the natural result is a heart so filled with God that it overflows to others, and as such, that kind of pure divine love flowing out from you as your heart is filled with God, you cannot, will not work ill. It is against the nature of God, which you are filled with. You are unable to act contrary to that when your heart is filled with God, filled with divine LOVE.

Why tack all these other conditions on this? Does that make any sense?

 

[Green Kepi]

Why? Because of John 14:23 - Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teachings. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

 

[Shermana]

However according to Jesus the entirety of scripture is fulfilled in two commandments only, "Love God, love your neighbor as yourself".

This is incorrect, Jesus said all the commandments HANG on those two. Not "repluaced by" or "All you have to do is love God and neighbor and you automatically have fulfilled the rest".

The point is, that each commandment has something to do with Love of God or neighbor.

Not lusting after your neighbor's wife is love of neighbor. Obeying the Sabbath is love of God. Not stealing is love of Neighbor. Not commiting idolatry is love of God.

It's sort of like saying "All the rules of traffic Hang on watching the road and not hitting your neighbor".

 

[Shermana]

But if you promote peace and love, then you aren't clashing with what Jesus taught. "Love works no ill". "Love is the fulfillment of the law". If you what you teach or preach leads to working ill, then you are "against" him, whether you call yourself a Bible-believing Christian, or not. I think those they say you must "believe" correctly are substituting those beliefs for actually fulfilling what he taught. Who can believe identically, and how can that be the condition for fulfilling the law? "Love is the fulfillment of the law... love works no ill".

By that logic you can avoid all the specifics of what Jesus said and create any definition of love you want. Where does Jesus say "love works no ill"? And what is "ill" in that logic? One person's "love" can be another person's "ill". Telling someone to obey Sabbath could be seen as "ill" because another finds it inconvenient, or telling a person to avoid fornicating could be "ill" because they find it inconvenient, but Jesus clearly is against breaking the Law. He says that anyone who teaches to break the least of the commandments shall be called the least in the Kingdom. Thus, teaching someone to break the commandments would clearly be "ill" according to Jesus, since it involves their demotion and depriving of status in the Kingdom.

Now if you look at 1 John 5:3 it says "The love of God is obedience to the commandments".

Jesus specifically teaches to obey the commandments. And as said in the above post, Jesus said all the Laws HANG on love of God and neighbor, that means something entirely different than what you're thinking, but this is a common misunderstanding. It was PAUL, not Jesus who said that Love fulfills all the commandments, which is kinda against what Jesus actually was saying.

So if you rewrite what Jesus says and ignore all the critical points that he's saying and take an interpretation that's quite contradictory to what he said, then you can't possibly be obeying what he taught, and you'd be "against" his teachings.

 

[Me Myself]

But...one must initially do what Christ and His Apostles taught in 'how to become one first'...then the loving God and brothers/sisters takes place...but...just loving is not the Path. True...we are not told that Christ called anyone of His follower - Christians. But...they first called themselves Christians at Antioch....

Just loving is not the path?! O_O was Jesus lying when he said love God above all and love each other as I loved you at is all the laws and the prophets?

Is god is love, intelligence and peace, then those who love love inteligence and peace and want them to prevail love God.

 

[Green Kepi]

Incorrect in your opinion. Just saying you love God and that you love your neighbor does not make you a Christian, is all I'm trying to say. Just simply going to church and calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you any more a Christian than standing on a highway makes you a car. You are a Christian because you have put your faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, by doing what He asks you to do to become one...then...and only then...one can love as you say. You cannot get to God without first going thru Jesus...!

 

[Shermana]

Incorrect in your opinion. Just saying you love God and that you love your neighbor does not make you a Christian, is all I'm trying to say. Just simply going to church and calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you any more a Christian than standing on a highway makes you a car. You are a Christian because you have put your faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, by doing what He asks you to do to become one...then...and only then...one can love as you say. You cannot get to God without first going thru Jesus...!

Well my opinion involves going by the entirety of what Jesus teaches, and the fact that "hangs on" does not mean "is replaced by". The "Finished work of Jesus Christ" simply is a reference to him serving as the Guilt Offering prophcecied in Isaiah 53:10, but continuing to sin will, as Hebrews 10:26-29 states, make the sacrifice no longer effective for you, resulting in "Fiery indignation".

As 1 John 2:6 states, one must "Walk as he walked". It's not a suggestion. It means one must live as he lived. It's a race that has to be won. No one will be saved unless they "endure until the end". When Jesus was asked by the Rich Man how to enter into life, his first answer was "Follow the commandments".

1 John 5:3, again, says that the Love of God is obedience to the commandments.

So how exactly does one "become one"? Is it merely by believing in his finishing work and not have anything to do with actually obeying what he was teaching?

 

[Me Myself]

Incorrect in your opinion. Just saying you love God and that you love your neighbor does not make you a Christian, is all I'm trying to say. Just simply going to church and calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you any more a Christian than standing on a highway makes you a car. You are a Christian because you have put your faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, by doing what He asks you to do to become one...then...and only then...one can love as you say. You cannot get to God without first going thru Jesus...!

Remembering that Everytime you help your brothers you help Jesus. So I agree, it is not enough to SAY you love, you gotta love, and love expresses itself in actions.

 

[Me Myself]

I think this shodul probably be moved to same faith debates...

 

[Shermana]

Just loving is not the path?! O_O was Jesus lying when he said love God above all and love each other as I loved you at is all the laws and the prophets?

Is god is love, intelligence and peace, then those who love love inteligence and peace and want them to prevail love God.

Jesus was not lying, because love of God is much about "Obedience to the commandments", taking into account everything else Jesus taught and not just a cherry picked passage or two, we see that Jesus pointed out that love of neighbor involves obeying all the social commandments, just as loving God involves obeying all his other commandments.

Would one be loving his neighbor by ignoring what Jesus said about who will be called "The least in the Kingdom" and not taking steps to help them avoid this fate of having a reduced portion and standing?