• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Would you kill a baby to save your life? / Circumstances?

BucephalusBB

ABACABB
1. Rebel troops are murdering everyone in sight. Twenty civilians are hiding under the floor. A child begins to make noises. The only way to stop the noise is to kill the child.
I would knock the child unconcious.

2. Child is running toward soldiers with a grenade taped to his hands.
I would scream that the soldiers better run faster..

3. Child has a highly infectious disease, Incurable, lethal disease, on a boat with other children at Sea, rescue is days away.
I would set it apart from the others.

4. Child soldier is holding a gun on another child. You could snipe the gun holder in the head from 100 yards away.
I would not shoot.
Unless it is my mission, I must be there with a sniperrifle for a reason.

5. Adolph Hitler is in your scope rifle. You know this afternoon he will give the order for the Holocaust. The SS has just spotted you and are turning to shoot you, you have moments. Hitler picks up a child, the child blocks your view, but your powerful rifle could shoot through the child, killing Hitler, and you could get away.
Again, I am scoping there for a reason, most likely to kill Hitler. So I would pull the trigger.

5b. Adolph is in a school building with 500 children, your only chance, press the detonator and kill them all or let him live, last chance.
This one says nothing of the information I will hold at that time. If it would be the same information as I have now, boooom!
Unless it happens short before he originally dies.

6a. Six children are about to die. The only way to discover the cure is to kill one and look inside his brain / heart, etc. Guarantee of success for the other five is 100%. Certainly they will otherwise die is 100% / 6b. 90%
6a. I hope I will be able to pull the trigger, I think I won't.
6b. Nope.

6c. Which would you rather a doctor in another country chose for your 6 children?
My Children? In that case I would need a lot more doctors than one before they can start killing my flock!

6d. What if you only found out about it after the fact, and the news of the decision of the doctor is in an envelope on your desk. Would you want to open the letter and find that all 6 of your children were left to die, or that the doctor murdered one child and saved 5?
What's done is done.

6e. same as 6d, but now you're the doctor, the children are yours, and you have to make the decision in four hours. This is, in effect, 6a again.
Than my answer is the same one as 6a.

7. Child soldier abused, now marching with the enemy in the distance, ready to kill the good guys.
I am one of the good guys, so I rather kill him then get killed.

8. An ignorant child is holding at gun and will shoot the leg (not fatally) of another child. You can only stop the loss of the leg by killing the gun holder.
leg vs life? :p

Please include whether or not religion plays a role in your answers, and thanks to those who answer.

I do not have a religion.
I do not believe in the soul. After you die, it's over. Therefor I value the life of a child just as hard as the life of a 85 year old guy. Dead is dead. Children however, generally leave more loved ones behind.
So when a child dies it is a horrible thing, but not for the child. For the parents and all! It is certainly not cool if the parents are sad, but it is also not cool to not kill hitler. I think that killing Hitler generally makes the world a lot happier than that it would make the world sad when that child gets killed.
On the other hand, we are dealing with timeframes here. I do not think that over a large amount of time this world would be happier with either Hitler alive or killed. Or even if he would have been victorious. I already notice this in my own time, let alone a thousands years from now. So the longer you wait to go back in time to kill somebody, the less usefull it will be for your own time. But you still have to kill a man..
 

ATAT

Member
sojourner said:
You forgot "secure your tray tables and make sure your seat is in its upright, locked position."

lol


plus this message to fulfill the five character minimum
 

ATAT

Member
BucephalusBB said:
3. Child has a highly infectious disease, Incurable, lethal disease, on a boat with other children at Sea, rescue is days away.
I would set it apart from the others.

What if it was a very small boat?

4. Child soldier is holding a gun on another child. You could snipe the gun holder in the head from 100 yards away.
I would not shoot.
Unless it is my mission, I must be there with a sniperrifle for a reason.

What if it was an adult Nazi holding a gun on a hostage?

6c. Which would you rather a doctor in another country chose for your 6 children?
My Children? In that case I would need a lot more doctors than one before they can start killing my flock!

"flock" = Students or birth children?

8. An ignorant child is holding at gun and will shoot the leg (not fatally) of another child. You can only stop the loss of the leg by killing the gun holder.
leg vs life? :p

What if it was an adult bank robber who threatened to shoot off the leg of a hostage?


I do not have a religion.
I do not believe in the soul. After you die, it's over.

You think, that's your best guess, or you know for a fact?

I don't think I have an eternal soul, I'd probably prefer not to have one of those, but I don't know for a fact. Nasty thing to have around if the polytheists are right and there's a Devil with a Lake of Fire waiting for my nerve-enhanced soul...

Therefor I value the life of a child just as hard as the life of a 85 year old guy. Dead is dead.

Doesn't the child have longer to live? Even if there is no soul, isn't it more moral to open / keep open the door for a being with 84 years left than an old person with one day left to live, who may already be in pain, and who keeps voting Republican?

Children however, generally leave more loved ones behind.

So, you think I should live over someone else, just because I have more wives than they do? (just kidding)

So when a child dies it is a horrible thing, but not for the child.

What about all the joy, meaning, and life that the child could have had? Imagine this child is one day old and its parents died and I shot killed all the other relatives and friends in a horrible finger painting accident gone wrong.



... It is certainly not cool if the parents are sad, but it is also not cool to not kill hitler. I think that killing Hitler generally makes the world a lot happier than that it would make the world sad when that child gets killed.

Is it all about how much sad vs happy there is? What about meaning? I once had a student who never smiled, she frowned most of the time. I asked her years later, 'Why didn't you like my classes?' She was shocked. She said she loved my classes, but she was concentrating to beat the boys.

On the other hand, we are dealing with timeframes here. I do not think that over a large amount of time this world would be happier with either Hitler alive or killed. Or even if he would have been victorious. I already notice this in my own time, let alone a thousands years from now. So the longer you wait to go back in time to kill somebody, the less usefull it will be for your own time. But you still have to kill a man..

Is it less wrong for Max to rape and murder a child 2500 hundred years ago than for someone to do the same today?

Huge thanks for your important reply, well thought out, detailed, lots of focus on the points, and I especially thank you for taking the time to give over an important perspective from multiple angles. And that is for now, this moment, so I can get maximum credit for the 'Huge thanks' I am giving you, not for some time in the past, like say, twenty minutes ago when you wrote it.
 

Smoke

Done here.
Why is everyone ignoring scenario #9, which is just as valid as the previous 8?

9. You're in a movie theater, and for some reason another movie goer brought their baby in with them, which begins to cry very loudly and obnoxiously, ruining your movie viewing experience, which you paid good money for.

Obviously, it would be wrong to kill the baby, who has been brought into the theater against his will and to his apparent displeasure. However, it would be a public service to kill the parents and ask an usher to remove the baby.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Sadly this forum can be a playground for the mentally impaired.

You noticed that too huh? :D

But seriously, I can think of one passage of scripture that covers what I would do in any situation.

Romans 12:9-21....

"Let your love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is wicked; cling to what is good. 10 In brotherly love have tender affection for one another.......12 Rejoice in the hope. Endure under tribulation. Persevere in prayer........14 Keep on blessing those who persecute; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; weep with those who weep. 16 Have the same attitude toward others as toward yourselves; do not set your mind on lofty things, but be led along with the lowly things. Do not become wise in your own eyes.
17 Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.” 20 But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good."

There is no room in Christian teaching for the unsanctioned taking of any human life. This life is not the important one....it doesn't have to be preserved at all costs.

Matt 16:25, 26....

25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 Really, what good will it do a man if he gains the whole world but loses his life? Or what will a man give in exchange for his life?"

When you let the Bible do the talking...there is no personal opinion that can override it. :cool:
 
Last edited:

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
JayDeeDee, that was well said.
The op posited a very twisted and strange question & I refuse to answer.
JDD, I do like what you write.
I was a police officer for over 22 years. A violent criminal beat me terribly, broke my back, put me in rehab for 9 months, 5 days a week. I could have shot him dead and been ruled "justifyable". Two other occasions I could have killed someone and didn't.
Words can't express how glad I am that I made good decisions and lived to tell about them.
I was, still am, highly skilled in tactical use of small arms. Tho I often still have a firearm handy I pray I never have to use it.
I simply don't want to.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
JayDeeDee, that was well said.
The op posited a very twisted and strange question & I refuse to answer.
JDD, I do like what you write.
I was a police officer for over 22 years. A violent criminal beat me terribly, broke my back, put me in rehab for 9 months, 5 days a week. I could have shot him dead and been ruled "justifyable". Two other occasions I could have killed someone and didn't.
Words can't express how glad I am that I made good decisions and lived to tell about them.
I was, still am, highly skilled in tactical use of small arms. Tho I often still have a firearm handy I pray I never have to use it.
I simply don't want to.

I am so glad to hear that jeager. No regrets is a good thing to have with such a dangerous occupation. So many opportunities to have sought retribution. :(

I know that Americans have an inordinate attachment to their firearms, but for a Christian 'praying that you don't have to use it' should really be replaced with 'I don't carry a weapon because my Lord told me to 'love my enemies' and his apostle told me not to "return evil for evil" to anyone'. How can we ever conquer evil with more evil?

Please continue with your study of the scriptures and your reliance on cold steel will be replaced with reliance on the God of heaven, who makes his sun shine even on the wicked. (Matt 5:43-48) He is more powerful than hate or fear...more powerful than all the weapons in the world. Yet his love is what shines through in everything he does.
My sincerest wishes for a successful and peaceful journey to the new world. :)
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
It's often occured to me that if I have weapons galore then where is my faith?
I need pray on that.
I no longer carry a gun. I got sick of the prospects. If I have it on me and I see something going awry I will act as a cop. Without the gun I will act as a good citizen.
 
Last edited:

NulliuSINverba

Active Member
NOT FOR THE FEINT OF HEART.

Or the faint of heart.

Under what circumstances would you kill a baby?

This may sound terribly contrived, but ...

If I were an omniscient, omnipotent deity that knew in advance that my creations would not necessarily obey me and even go so far as to doubt my existence ... and if based on my own prescribed rules I'd be obliged to consign them to eternal torment (for behaving as per my design) unless I were willing to incarnate myself on earth as my own child and having myself temporarily crucified to wash away the sins of the world.

That's the first scenario that leaps to my mind.
 
Top